The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (4 Viewers)

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    Lapaz

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    There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.



    Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

    Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.
     
    My understanding is they were told well before Election Day they had to stand 20 feet back because of COVID restrictions. They could have challenged it ahead of time. Still, they challenged it on Election Day and were allowed to stand 6 ft. after the ruling.

    That’s my understanding.
     
    You managed yet again to refute nothing and only repeat "this is the process" like that explains everything. We gave you exactly why this ISN'T the process for this particular election. Its maddening. So let me ask, how do you approach your ellipsis "probably" if it actually occurs? Do you shrug it off and say "well it was the process!"?
    No new legislation was passed. No EO were issued. So, it actually is the current process. Just because someone doesn't like the process or thinks the established process is unfair, does not mean that the process does not exist or established.

    Are you asking me what I will say if Trump, by the process, wins? If that were to happen, I think it would be massive voter fraud or irregularities on a scale that everyone would agree. Do I think that will happen? No, I do not. Do I care what Trump says....Nope.
    And if that does happen (Trump somehow winning), Biden will then have a process to follow so that we, the voters are confident that our elections are fair and valid.
     
    I'm all in favor of letting the process play out now that it has begun - but would you agree that if all the legal challenges fail, and nothing new comes out, Trump ought to make a public announcement that there was no fraud and that people should have faith in our elections?
    The problem with this is that you're assuming Trump is the sort of person that would do this. He will not unless something dramatically changes. He is going to leave under protest without ever walking back his claims. Doesn't matter what most people think. The damage will be done.
     
    The problem with this is that you're assuming Trump is the sort of person that would do this. He will not unless something dramatically changes. He is going to leave under protest without ever walking back his claims. Doesn't matter what most people think. The damage will be done.

    I agree that's probably what he'll do, I'm just trying to get as many conservatives as possible to try to help restore faith in American institutions if the evidence bears that out.

    I don't really care if people don't have faith in Joe Biden, or the Democratic party, so much as I care about people having faith in America, our institutions and processes.
     
    1. Where were the Democrats on wasting time, money and resources for the last 4 years? We had a 2 1/3 year investigation on Russian disinformation.
    Doing none of the above. The amount of time spent on the Russia storyline is much, much less than was spent on Benghazi (with absolutely zero charges or wrongdoing found) or Hillary's emails, and more actual wrongdoing was found in the Russia investigations.
    2. What was a creditable allegation about Kavanaugh? He liked beer? I don't think any allegation was backed up with evidence. Did I miss it?
    No you didn't, but you're acting like it wasn't credible because you don't want to believe it and wouldn't have in any possible scenario.
     
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    The problem with this is that you're assuming Trump is the sort of person that would do this. He will not unless something dramatically changes. He is going to leave under protest without ever walking back his claims. Doesn't matter what most people think. The damage will be done.

    If he leaves under protest, then he leaves under protest. I don't care if he does that as long as he leaves. I do care that a lot of people will be doubting the results of the election because of it. I don't think there's anything we can do other than let the process play out. I don't like it and hope Trump will accept the results as valid. I'm not optimistic that he will. But we'll have to wait and see.
     
    I agree that's probably what he'll do, I'm just trying to get as many conservatives as possible to try to help restore faith in American institutions if the evidence bears that out.

    I don't really care if people don't have faith in Joe Biden, or the Democratic party, so much as I care about people having faith in America, our institutions and processes.
    I imagine any conservatives that don't have faith in the electoral institutions right now will suddenly have that faith restored when a conservative wins. Just like seemingly the Russians didn't steal THIS election.
     
    I imagine any conservatives that don't have faith in the electoral institutions right now will suddenly have that faith restored when a conservative wins. Just like seemingly the Russians didn't steal THIS election.
    They didn't steal it last time either, but it was pretty apparent that they were interfering on Trump's behalf. Which by itself I don't think it would have been a big deal -- Russians just being Russians. But Trump's denial of what was fairly obvious, along with his odd behavior with Putin and the many points of contact with his campaign and Russian agents, made even people in the FBI question what the fork was going on.

    Fortunately it turned out that they were doing so not because he was an asset but just a useful idiot.
     
    Sounds like they can get it done within a week (they can't start until the 13th or 14th)

    They could speed up the process by counting the votes out of Fulton and the other counties surrounding Atlanta. If those ballots check out, then there will be no need to continue because the R's will continue to make false claims of fraud.
     
    Even if that is all true, it doesn't make what they are doing any less dangerous. Regardless of their intentions and motivations, their actions are creating a situation that gives Trump an opportunity to seize authoritarian control of the country.

    Go back and look at history. Every time authoritarians seized control of a democracy, most of the people were saying some variation of "it's all going to be fine" and that consensus attitude is what allowed the authoritarians to seize control of those democracies.

    If something catches on fire in your house, do you sit back and say "let's see how this plays out before we get too concerned?"
    Totally agree with this, and I think if the Republican senators are keeping quiet so that Trump voters don’t stay home in Ga, that is going to backfire. I voted for Trump in 16 and Biden now, but I do agree Trump has his right to challenge results when there is strong evidence of material fraud, but at this point he just needs to give up before more harm is done.
    I was flipping channels a few days ago and caught an interview of Mitt Romney on Fox News. I didn’t see all of it but the portion I caught, he was being asked why he didn’t challenge vote counts in 2012 instead of conceding, I’m paraphrasing, but basically he thought through not only if he had a legitimate shot to win but if that fight was worth the damage he’d do to the concept of democracy around the world, and that’s when he decided to concede. So many Americans have fought and died to protect democracy across the world, and for the leader of the free world to discredit our democratic processes is mind boggling.
     
    Totally agree with this, and I think if the Republican senators are keeping quiet so that Trump voters don’t stay home in Ga, that is going to backfire. I voted for Trump in 16 and Biden now, but I do agree Trump has his right to challenge results when there is strong evidence of material fraud, but at this point he just needs to give up before more harm is done.
    I was flipping channels a few days ago and caught an interview of Mitt Romney on Fox News. I didn’t see all of it but the portion I caught, he was being asked why he didn’t challenge vote counts in 2012 instead of conceding, I’m paraphrasing, but basically he thought through not only if he had a legitimate shot to win but if that fight was worth the damage he’d do to the concept of democracy around the world, and that’s when he decided to concede. So many Americans have fought and died to protect democracy across the world, and for the leader of the free world to discredit our democratic processes is mind boggling.
    I was a Republican for a long time, and will admit Romney was the last Republican I voted for. The way the party is today, I doubt I will ever vote Republican again.
     
    I imagine any conservatives that don't have faith in the electoral institutions right now will suddenly have that faith restored when a conservative wins. Just like seemingly the Russians didn't steal THIS election.
    What a stupid argument.

    Russia was working to get Trump elected in the last election. Presumably, they would have been working to support Trump again in this election.

    Ergo, if Biden wins, then they weren’t successful. That doesn’t mean they didn’t try and fail this time around, nor does it mean that they weren’t successful in influencing the election in 2016.
     

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