The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (1 Viewer)

[Lapaz]

There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.

Stanford study: Mail voting doesn't benefit one party over another

Coronavirus-spurred limits have intensified a push to allow more mail balloting in November.

www.politico.com

Voting Outside the Polling Place: Absentee, All-Mail and other Voting at Home Options

Most states offer at least one method for any eligible voter to cast a ballot before Election Day. While some states provide early in-person voting, this webpage addresses absentee voting and all-mail voting.

www.ncsl.org

Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.

 

[wardorican]

Anyone read the transcript of the recanting recanter Richard Hopkins? Basically, the investigators just kept pressing him to recall exactly what he heard, and he ended up admitting that he didn't hear any of the damning stuff, that his mind just made up the blanks.

The other signed affidavits that have been floating around are pretty nuts. Like one that said they saw some military ballots cast for Biden, and they thought the military always voted conservative. This is going to fade pretty quickly.

No, can you link it somewhere?

 

[J-DONK]

I'm curious is there still was some level of Russian interference. So much of it is just the media landscape. It's murky.

The only weird link I saw this cycle was this.

Alleged Hunter Biden Sex Tapes Have Gone Viral on Steve Bannon’s Chinese Website

The posting of these videos coincide with a renewed push by the Trump campaign to paint Biden as somehow compromised by China.

www.vice.com

If we want to talk conspiracy theories, this billionaire that Bannon was vacationing with when he got arrested for mail fraud owns the site this is hosted on. You add in Trump has a secret Chinese bank account. It makes you wonder, what is going on there. I know it made me question if those videos really came from a laptop repair shop.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

No, can you link it somewhere?

You can go to Project Veritas for the video, a great transcript isn't available. There's a summary from the Washington Post, but if you want the full stupidity of it, you'll just need to watch the whole thing, which most people won't do. And that's probably the only reason they posted it, basically just betting people will only read the headline and not sit through the whole thing.

 

[superchuck500]

Karl Freakin’ Rove: the margins are beyond what any reasonably possible challenge could overcome and Trump should unite the country with a smooth transition, and let grievances go.

That’s all true. But we all know that is well beyond Trump’s capability.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Karl Freakin’ Rove: the margins are beyond what any reasonably possible challenge could overcome and Trump should unite the country with a smooth transition, and let grievances go.

That’s all true. But we all know that is well beyond Trump’s capability.

You’re pretty far gone when Karl Rove is the voice of reason

 

[MT15]

“Let grievances go..”. Mr. Rove, have you met Mr. Trump?

 

[GrandAdmiral]

People remember him from like 15 years ago when he was more of just a financial business guy and his opinions didn't go out of his lane.

Yeah. Dobbs started go off the rails in his final years at CNN. He got to FOX and it all went to hell in a handbasket.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Yeah. Dobbs started go off the rails in his final years at CNN. He got to FOX and it all went to hell in a handbasket.

Like some other media figures, 9/11 changed Dobbs. Much like Dennis Miller, 9/11 got channeled into a distrust of Islam that evolved into out-right xenophobia. Dobbs became obsessed with immigration and "others" changing "American culture". Like Trump, the election of Obama pushed him over the xenophobe edge. He left CNN a year later and it's been all downhill from there.

The rise of MAGA can really be traced to 9/11. It started this undercurrent of acceptance for xenophobia and the desire to protect "American culture" from "others". The election of Obama and conspiracy theories about him being a Manchurian Kenyan Muslim supercharged that undercurrent and it eventually led to MAGA. Dobbs was one of the people who stormed the beaches of that movement.

 

[superchuck500]

More stupid and dangerous bullshirt from Trump sycophants.

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

GOP reasons why voters should be disenfranchised:

-there was a large black man present while votes were counted
-the PA system was loud
-there were military votes counted for Biden, but we all know those suckers and losers would have voted Trump

 

[wardorican]

More stupid and dangerous bullshirt from Trump sycophants.

Glad people are being held accountable (albeit, in the media) for when they're spreading BS.

 

[MT15]

I found this an interesting finding from a local FLA news outfit. Since this seems to be a place for “dirty tricks” on elections both perceived and real, kinda goes here.



“Why would candidates for Florida Senate seats do no campaigning, no fundraising, have no issue platforms, nor make any effort to get votes?

Local 10 News has found evidence to suggest three such candidates in three Florida Senate district races, two of them in Miami Dade County, were shill candidates whose presence in the races were meant to syphon votes from Democratic candidates.

Comparisons of the no-party candidates' public campaign records show similarities and connections that suggest they are all linked by funding from the same dark money donors, and part of an elaborate scheme to upset voting patterns.”

Now this looks like election fraud.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

The election of Obama and conspiracy theories about him being a Manchurian Kenyan Muslim supercharged that undercurrent and it eventually led to MAGA. Dobbs was one of the people who stormed the beaches of that movement.

As if on cue they are reading excerpts from Obama's new book on CNN and he is saying exactly this, just more eloquently.

 

[SFIDC3]

How many times are you all going to ignore the fact that I have always said 'credible' evidence? Not all claims are true. Not all claims are false. These claims must be investigated.

There is a process here, just like 2016, just like in 2000. Going through the legal and time test process does not mean the end of democracy or a seizure of power or whatever else alarmist want to call it. What we are going through is normal. It is part of the process that both sides have always done. We are not even behind schedule on the election. No delay. Just both campaigns going through all the legally allowed measures for transparency to maintain citizens faith in our electoral process.
This is a fact and because is not allowed to be talked or written off as conspiracy theories is crazy to me, but I am obviously in the minority.

Wake me when you can come up with an instance of a President (who obviously lost an election) claims fraud and rigged before the election starts, during it and after it is plainly obvious he lost by a wide margin.

Also wake me when a sitting SOS says (when he knows full well otherwise) that he is preparing for a 2nd term of Dear Leader (when Dear Leader has clearly lost the election).

If that behavior doesn't give you some pause then you have really lost all credibility in this matter....

 

[SFIDC3]

You're actually quite wrong about that and the problem with presenting this as innocuous and normal (when it very much is not) is that avoids the reality that Trump's destructive public commentary and litigation effort are both unprecedented and against the interests of the United States.

Were you aware that Al Gore actually didn't start any litigation in 2000? Florida's recount was automatic by statute, and though it narrowed the gap from over 1,700 votes to just over 500 votes, Bush was still the winner. As he's allowed under Florida statute, Gore asked for a manual recount in four counties. While that was going on, the statutory deadline for counting expired and the Florida Secretary of State declared Bush the winner. Officials in one of the counties sued the Secretary of State for that action and Gore joined the lawsuit to request the Florida Supreme Court allow the voting to continue. That's it - that's the extent of the litigation filed by Gore in 2000. And carrying it through to the Supreme Court was legitimate and sensible - it was one case in one state where the margin was fewer than 600 votes.

In 2016, Hilary Clinton didn't commence any litigation either. When Jill Stein filed a lawsuit in Wisconsin to ask for a recount, Clinton filed a motion to join the suit as additional plaintiff on the basis that the recount could effect her interests as well. But she didn't file the suit or ask for the recount in the first instance. Nor did she file suit anywhere else.

In 1960, Republicans and the Nixon campaign widely believed that votes coming from Chicago were suspect and urged Nixon to file suit challenging the result. Nixon refused, claiming that he didn't want to "tear the country apart." (Citation below).

Trump lost six swing states. And each of them by more than 10,000 votes, and close to 50,000 votes in Pennsylvania and almost 150,000 votes Michigan. Trump has filed suit in Michigan and Arizona, and multiple suits in Pennsylvania. Giuliani stated a suit was coming in Wisconsin but it hasn't been filed yet. Additional suits have been filed by Republicans in Congress.

Trump continues to tweet that he won the election - or that it was rigged or stolen from him. The Trump administration is refusing to acknowledge the president-elect. The Trump administration is refusing common accommodations to the president-elect's team (including the State Department refusing to pass congratulatory correspondence to Biden received by State channels . . . which is apparently a long tradition). The White House has even ordered agencies to prepare to go forward with the Trump OMB's allocations on budget starting February.

Yet there remains no meaningful evidence to even think that the requisite tens of thousands of votes might be tossed out. Trump's suits have been laughably weak and brought literal laughter from the legal community and elsewhere in the degree to which the lawyers are presenting flimsy, silly, or even bad-faithed claims in court. They're literally trying to get anything to stick.

The reason why post-election litigation to challenge a result is so infrequent is because election systems have safeguards and redundancies that allow them to come to a reliable certification. And the tradition in this Republic has been to allow that process to proceed without intervention from the Department of Justice or trivial litigation from the candidates and their campaigns. Suing in multiple states and claiming widespread fraud, with no meaningful evidence, is an insult to those processes and traditions.

And you might have a point if any of these lawsuits or public claims by the president had any substance to them. But they don't, which means that there are only two reasonable motivations for this entire destructive episode: (1) Trump knows he lost but believes that this is good for him and Republicans because it keeps his base invigorated to donate money to the continued effort (that he then uses to pay down campaign debt or for RNC to use in Georgia) and to continue his personal base into the next cycle, or (2) Trump's deep personality flaws cannot accept the reality that he loss and must persist in this delusion because he cannot behave in any other way.

Neither is legitimate.

The transition process is important and set forth in federal statute. The transition process takes time and must be done professionally and with dignity and accommodation. Trump is allowing none of it. And most importantly, the transition process is essential to the interests of the United States because an unenthusiastic or incomplete transition process exposes gaps in effective operation of American government (as the 9/11 Commission concluded).

While it is true that we must have these procedures available to prevent a genuine subversion of American democracy, tying up the transition effort with spurious arguments and scant evidence is abuse of process. Those who perpetuate this effort and who amplify this effort are acting on illegitimate interests and against the interests of the United States, and they should be reminded of it every day, every moment.

This is not routine. This is not precedented. This is not normal. This is Donald Trump, and it continues to be loathsome that leaders in posts like the Senate Majority Leader, the Secretary of State, and the Attorney General of the United States are willing to help him perpetrate this abuse of process to serve illegitimate political interests.

Presidential Votes Have Been Too Close To Call And Even Too Close to Count

The uncertainty of past U.S. elections may not offer an adequate model given the magnitude of this year's problems and the apparent determination of the incumbent to resist any adverse results.

www.npr.org

State Department won’t give Biden messages from foreign leaders: report

The State Department won’t give President-elect Joe Biden or his transition team dozens of messages that foreign leaders have given to the department, CNN reported Wednesday. President Trump’s…

thehill.com

Hey I basically said all this in a single paragraph just now....NOT.....well done sir, well done....

 

[bdb13]

All you can really hope is that the Republican's refusal to push back on Trump on the rigged election talk ends up with their voters not showing up in Georgia in January because it's just another "rigged election."

 

[superchuck500]

All you can really hope is that the Republican's refusal to push back on Trump on the rigged election talk ends up with their voters not showing up in Georgia in January because it's just another "rigged election."

Project Veritas is propaganda. Why aren't they filing affidavits in court? That's what matters.

Get one on the record where it counts and then we'll talk about what it actually means.

 

[bdb13]

Project Veritas is propaganda. Why aren't they filing affidavits in court? That's what matters.

Get one on the record where it counts and then we'll talk about what it actually means.

It's James O'Keefe right? And if not it's still the same freakin' thing.