The Voting Thread (Procedures, Turnout, Legal Challenges)(Update: Trump to file suit in PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, GA) (12 Viewers)

[Lapaz]

There is a lot of push-back from Trump on voting by mail, but most states allow it, and 1/3 allow it without any excuse. His rationale is that it will lead to vast fraud, but of course that isn't his real reason. His real reason is that he thinks it will be worse for conservatives, but studies have shown that states that have instituted much broader voting by mail haven't had any statistical changes in party voting.

Stanford study: Mail voting doesn't benefit one party over another

Coronavirus-spurred limits have intensified a push to allow more mail balloting in November.

www.politico.com

Voting Outside the Polling Place: Absentee, All-Mail and other Voting at Home Options

Most states offer at least one method for any eligible voter to cast a ballot before Election Day. While some states provide early in-person voting, this webpage addresses absentee voting and all-mail voting.

www.ncsl.org

Although, normally voting by mail doesn't affect party votes, I bet it might this year if we have another resurgence of Covid, because I think the right is much more apt to discount the virus than the left. I know that is why Trump is against it.

Whether you're left or right wing, expanding mail in votes is the right thing to do to reduce the likelihood of spreading the virus, to expand voter participation, and to make it easier for those that do show up to stay distant. It will also allow any people with susceptibilities to remain safer. I think voting by mail could be made extremely secure by having people vote using traditional postal mail, coupled with requiring a confirmation either by phone, email or text. If done by phone, then voters can provide confirmation that can include confirming their form number. If done by email or text, it can include a picture of their form, and then confirmation that that was their form. Rather than staffers individually calling people, this can be automated by having voters call the number, text the number, or email the address provided to them on their form. A website can even be created with a database of those that have voted, and perhaps a link to allow people to confirm their vote was correctly registered. For people without computers, a site can include a means to access the database over the phone with some confirmation information. These types of systems are used extensively by banks and other sites that need security, so I think they are mature enough to use. We could even use such a site for people to confirm their vote on the day of the election.

 

[MrScary]

Republicans on Friday: Humoring the delusion
Republicans today: Hmmmm, can we actually get away with it?

We are entering into some legitimately dangerous territory here and if you are one of these "well I don't see the harm in letting him explore his options" folks, you are an uninformed danger to this nation. Full stop.

 

[DaveXA]

Republicans on Friday: Humoring the delusion
Republicans today: Hmmmm, can we actually get away with it?

We are entering into some legitimately dangerous territory here and if you are one of these "well I don't see the harm in letting him explore his options" folks, you are an uninformed danger to this nation. Full stop.

Look, I'm no fan of Trump. I think he's clearly lost the election and should concede. That said, I don't think we have much choice other than to let him exhaust his legal options. None of this is formally official until the states certify their election results. We will just have to wait it out. There's not much else that can be done until then.

 

[efil4]

There's always a Tweet.

Its so much more than humor/gotcha - it provides anyone with two eyes and a brain some insight into this guys thought process.

That hasnt changed in 4 decades.

So donate away.

 

[MrScary]

Look, I'm no fan of Trump. I think he's clearly lost the election and should concede. That said, I don't think we have much choice other than to let him exhaust his legal options. None of this is formally official until the states certify their election results. We will just have to wait it out. There's not much else that can be done until then.

In the meantime, this farce is actively undermining the actual electoral system of the nation because its being amplified on social media everywhere in the context that this is a Democratic coup. This is not a normal "let him exhaust his options and wait it out" moment. You have the actual SecState saying we will transistion to a 2nd Trump Admin yesterday. What kind of damage does that do??? He has the main operating apparatus of his party signaling that this is an actual fraudulent election with zero proof. Even if the legal options are thrown out (which I think they will), the damage is being irreparably done the longer it isn't called out because everyone is still thinking we are operating in normal times. He has made everyone expect the ridiculous over time and when it happens, people shrug and say what can ya do??? The top ten Facebook pages today are all about "stolen elections", Trump, and comfortingly enough civil war. This passive "let things run their course" strategy paired with low information folks on social media is going to have long lasting consequences.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/11...election-lie-pushes-america-toward-autocracy/

 

[superchuck500]

Remember our earlier observations about the importance of quality counsel when you're trying to litigate a presidential election?

 

[MrScary]

I get the impulse to not give Trump’s fantasy oxygen but if more Republicans who could make it happen are hedging today than yesterday, I’m not sure we can afford to just assume the system will hold.

 

[efil4]

Remember our earlier observations about the importance of quality counsel when you're trying to litigate a presidential election?

isnt this just a synopsis of the WHOLE voter fraud issue anyway?

sheesh. Arguing that hearsay isnt actually just hearing from someone and he trying to frame it as the words out of the mouth of another is "physical"

LOLOLOL. Someone has to die on the sword. Guess he was chosen. Must be low on the ladder at his firm. lol

 

[EmBeeFiveOhFour]

In the new Michigan suit, most of the complaints have nothing to do with fraudulent votes being cast, but instead focus on GOP poll watchers who think they were treated rudely or weren't allowed into areas where there were already over 100+ other GOP poll watchers:

Trump lawsuit affidavits allege Michigan election misconduct, don't show widespread fraud

The Trump campaign filed the affidavits with a lawsuit in an effort to temporarily prevent the certification of Michigan election results.

www.freep.com

The most common complaints cited in the affidavits relate to allegedly being obstructed by or feeling intimidated by election workers at the TCF Center in Detroit, where absentee ballots cast in the city were counted. Some people say this obstruction made it difficult or impossible to observe the counting.

Others say election officials cited COVID-19 guidelines and asked them to stand six feet away from poll workers. While some said this made it difficult to monitor what some election workers were doing, others made very specific allegations about what they say they saw.

Andrew John Miller said he was repeatedly blocked from viewing workers who were duplicating ballots, a standard process in place if a tabulation machine is unable to read a ballot.

"I informed a supervisor that I was denied access to see the duplication process and need to review the ballots for accuracy. I was informed that I ‘couldn’t because the duplication process was personal like voting'," Miller said in an affidavit.

Many also allege they or others were denied re-entry to the counting room after leaving for lunch or another purpose, seeing ballots allegedly being left unsecured, and seeing information about voters being manually entered into the voter database after a voter’s name could not be located.

Anthony DeLuca, an attorney, said in an affidavit he arrived at the TCF Center to serve as a Republican poll challenger on the afternoon of Nov. 4 and gained entry to the main building after identifying himself to police as a lawyer. But he could not get into the room where absentee ballots were being counted and was told it was at capacity, he said.

Another Republican attorney, James Frego, said he prevented police from closing a door into the counting area at TCF. Frego said he put his foot in the door, and would not remove it until police told him how many challengers were inside the room. After police repeatedly asked him to remove his foot, Frego was arrested, he said.

The Free Press and others have reported that more than 134 Republican poll challengers were allowed in TCF, with hundreds more inside the counting area at various points throughout the process.

This is sour grapes, sore loser shirt.

 

[DaveXA]

I get the impulse to not give Trump’s fantasy oxygen but if more Republicans who could make it happen are hedging today than yesterday, I’m not sure we can afford to just assume the system will hold.

To be sure, I don't think they're hedging because of Trump. They're hedging because of the Georgia runoff. They don't want to scare off the Trump voters because they need them for the runoff. It's a crappy thing to do, but right now it's about survival in terms of the Senate.

I'm convinced that if the Georgia election was already decided, they would have all jumped the sinking Trump ship by now.

 

[Nebaghead]

To be sure, I don't think they're hedging because of Trump. They're hedging because of the Georgia runoff. They don't want to scare off the Trump voters because they need them for the runoff. It's a crappy thing to do, but right now it's about survival in terms of the Senate.

I'm convinced that if the Georgia election was already decided, they would have all jumped the sinking Trump ship by now.

I feel like this could blow up in their face. Dems are motivated when they feel oppressed. They aren’t allowing their choice to be president and making it harder for him to transition. Good story is we won’t be able to sit a single judge or pass legislation without those two seats.

 

[DaveXA]

I feel like this could blow up in their face. Dems are motivated when they feel oppressed. They aren’t allowing their choice to be president and making it harder for him to transition. Good story is we won’t be able to sit a single judge or pass legislation without those two seats.

Yeah, I mean, personally, I hope it does blow up in their face. A 50-50 tie with the Democrats controlling the agenda suits me just fine. At least I hope it shows that the Republicans need to change their approach.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I actually like divided government, but I also like bills and appointees getting to the floor for a vote and McConnell will never allow that. 50-50 is perfect because you will have someone like Manchin keeping Dems from going crazy but not having McConnell blocking everything imaginable.

 

[DaveXA]

I actually like divided government, but I also like bills and appointees getting to the floor for a vote and McConnell will never allow that. 50-50 is perfect because you will have someone like Manchin keeping Dems from going crazy but not having McConnell blocking everything imaginable.

Yep, that's pretty much where I'm at as well.

 

[superchuck500]

I actually like divided government, but I also like bills and appointees getting to the floor for a vote and McConnell will never allow that. 50-50 is perfect because you will have someone like Manchin keeping Dems from going crazy but not having McConnell blocking everything imaginable.

JP Morgan's updated economic outlook yesterday described a Biden White House and close Senate under GOP control, or 50/50 to be the "unicorn scenario" for markets.

 

[wardorican]

Trump campaign sues Michigan to prevent certification of Biden win

According to a complaint filed in a federal court in western Michigan, many people have submitted affidavits describing alleged misconduct in the voting, with the focus on the Democratic stronghold of Wayne County, which includes Detroit. The allegations are similar to those raised by the Trump...

www.yahoo.com

The allegations are similar to those raised by the Trump campaign and some Republicans in lawsuits in several states. Legal experts have said the litigation is unlikely to result in Trump getting a second term in the White House.

Trump's campaign has alleged that misconduct in Michigan included harassment of Republican poll challengers and a requirement that they adhere to six-foot distancing rules unlike Democratic poll challengers, and that "illegal and ineligible ballots were counted."

The complaint said election results should not be certified without confirming that all ballots were counted properly, and a special election might be needed in problematic precincts.

Jake Rollow, a spokesman for the Michigan Department of State, in a statement said the Trump campaign was promoting false claims to erode public confidence in Michigan's elections.

"It does not change the truth: Michigan's elections were conducted fairly, securely, transparently, and the results are an accurate reflection of the will of the people," Rollow said.

EDIT:
EmBeeFiveOhFour 's link is better.

 

[wardorican]

But if it can happen in GA, what about PA, AZ, and WI, where things are close? They each have Republican legislatures.

Sounds like they can get it done within a week (they can't start until the 13th or 14th)

Georgia audit to trigger hand tally of presidential vote

Georgia’s secretary of state on Wednesday announced an audit of presidential election results that he said would be done with a full hand tally of ballots because the margin is so tight. Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said at a news conference that the presidential race makes the most...

www.yahoo.com

ATLANTA (AP) — Georgia's secretary of state on Wednesday announced an audit of presidential election results that he said will trigger a full hand recount.

Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said at a news conference that his office wants the process to begin by the end of the week and he expects it to take until Nov. 20, which is the certification deadline.

President-elect Joe Biden leads President Donald Trump by about 14,000 votes out of nearly 5 million votes in the state. Nearly all ballots have been counted, though counties have until Friday to certify their results.

Once county certification is complete and before the state certifies the results, the count must be audited. It is up to Raffensperger to choose which race to audit.

The audit is a new requirement put in place by a law passed in 2019 that also provided for the new voting machines purchased last year. The state has chosen to do a risk-limiting audit, in which a random sample of ballots or receipts generated by voting machines are checked against results produced by vote-tallying equipment for accuracy.

Raffensperger chose to audit the presidential race and said the tight margin means that the audit will result in a full hand recount.

Asked if he chose the presidential race because of the Trump campaign's call for a hand recount, Raffensperger said, “No, we're doing this because it's really what makes the most sense with the national significance of this race and the closeness of this race.”

For the hand recount, election officers will work with the paper ballots in batches, dividing them into piles for each candidate. Then they will run the piles through machines to count the number of ballots for each candidate. The scanners will not read the data on the ballots, simply count them.

Raffensperger said the process will have “plenty of oversight,” with both parties having the opportunity to observe.

 

[Eeyore]

I wonder if this is just a strategy to keep him out of jail, after he’s finally and correctly pushed out. Try to overplay the “stealing” of the election and make him look like a victim. Then if he’s prosecuted it makes him look even more like a victim with bad optics to the world that opposition candidates get sent to jail. So to avoid those optics someone lets him off?

I see it as a fundraising scheme. He's taking half of the money that is being raised for these legal fees to pay "campaign debt."

 

[SystemShock]

If any of you allow yourselves to get drug down the Russian Investigation rabbit hole again I will virtually slap you. It won't hurt, but it will be very firm and open-palmed, virtually.

Do I have to call you daddy, or can I enjoy my spanking in silence?