The trade and economy mega-thread (5 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Is there a trade deal with China? Is it really a deal or just a pull-back to status quo ante? Is Trump advancing US interests in this well-executed trade battle plan or was this poorly conceived from the start . . . and harmful?

I think the jury's still out, but I haven't seen that the Chinese are offering much in compromise - and it's not even clear if there's going to be an agreement. But it's clear they are working on something and I'm sure Trump will sell it as the greatest trade deal ever. The proof will be in the details.

 

[bird]

The simple truth is there isn't much waste, fraud and abuse in entitlement spending. Those programs are under such constant scrutiny that we already have effective ways of limiting waste, fraud and abuse. If you want to reduce waste, fraud and abuse, you need to look at military spending and organization.

Making SS, Medicare and Medicaid solvent for the future, just raise the cap on the percentage of salary taxed. We already know the answer. We also need to reduce taxes overall on the rich to reduce/eliminate budget deficits.

Leveraging technology to increase efficiency and modernizing government can help, but those also take investments.

If we want to weed out waste, fraud and abuse then actually do it. Doing it means jailing the management of HCA when they committed the largest Medicare fraud in history (Rick Scott ended up a senator when he should be in jail). Do it by jailing the management of United Healthcare. Impose the corporate death penalty on any company that commits fraud against the government.

Because THAT is where the vast majority of waste, fraud and abuse occurs. It is at the interface of government and the private sector. It always has been, it always will be. But the RW is uninterested in that. No, the real problem in their eyes are the occasional individual who keeps getting their dead mother’s social security checks. The massive insurance companies, the large providers owned by private equity, they’re never to blame. And if they are? Well, they just pay a fine, don’t admit guilt, and go on their way stealing from taxpayers.

 

[wardorican]

The simple truth is that this country has to get a handle on entitlement spending. I don’t think there is a single “magic bullet”. It will take a combination of weeding out waste fraud and abuse, increasing revenues via increased taxation and/or economic growth, leveraging technology to increase efficiency and controlling the growth of these programs. Whatever is decided will surely piss off someone. Maybe everyone. There isn’t an answer that everyone is going to like.

At the end of the day, the numbers have to work. The longer we avoid dealing with the problem, the more difficult the task when the day comes when we have no other choice.

Well, then talk to your representatives to deal with the revenue side of things and work with Democrats vs shove this 'big beautiful bill'.

 

[TampaJoe]

Well, then talk to your representatives to deal with the revenue side of things and work with Democrats vs shove this 'big beautiful bill'.

Whatever solution they come up with needs to be bipartisan.

 

[Dragon]

People love to rant about “welfare fraud” — the single mom allegedly gaming the system or the disabled vet "milking benefits." But here’s the truth:
The real fraud costs billions — and it’s committed by corporations, not citizens.

In the U.S.:
Healthcare fraud by big insurers and hospital networks costs tens of billions every year. Defense contractors overbill the Pentagon routinely — sometimes charging $10,000 for parts that cost $100 and private prison operators, military suppliers, and government contractors exploit loopholes, overcharge, and deliver low-quality results with no real accountability. Meanwhile, poor Americans get dragged through years of scrutiny and humiliation for $200 a month in food aid.

Now compare that to Denmark:
Denmark’s debt is just ~30% of GDP (vs the U.S. at over 120%). Why? Because Denmark doesn't just spend less — it manages money better.
It invests in its people: Universal healthcare, Free higher education, Strong public infrastructure, A safety net that works — without treating citizens like criminals

And here’s the kicker: the Danish government holds assets — including investments, state-owned companies, and reserves — that offset much of its debt.
In contrast, the U.S. borrows for tax cuts, endless war budgets, and subsidies to already-profitable corporations. Taxes are insurance. For roads. For schools. For emergencies. For when life hits hard. But in the U.S., the system is rigged so that you pay, and the ultra-rich collect.

And for those who says that US spend more money than Europe on defense. Yes that is true. US spend about 3K $/citizent in 2026 while most EU countries spend around 2K $. But
Denmark—and the EU more broadly—gets far more value for each defense dollar due to strict procurement rules, transparency requirements, and tough anti-fraud regulations. Unlike the U.S., where cost overruns and lobbying often inflate prices, EU laws ensure competitive bidding and accountability. So while EU may spend less, it spends smart—and gets more out of every dime. Bottom line: it's not just about how much you spend—it's about how well you spend it.

So maybe stop blaming the poor — and start asking where the real money is going.

 

[MT15]

Republicans never ever really want to stop Medicare fraud - as already mentioned - Rick Scott is a GOP senator. He committed the worst case of Medicare fraud ever found, IIRC.

Checking my memory with PolitiFact: yes, at the time it was committed Rick Scott oversaw the largest Medicare fraud ever found. It has now been surpassed. Not by any individual or group of individuals, mind you, by another corporation. Rick Scott paid zero price. He wasn’t even disqualified from being a Republican candidate. The GOP doesn’t care one bit about fraud against the government. They’re just using a tired old trope to con people like Joe into thinking they care.

Rick Scott 'oversaw the largest Medicare fraud' in U.S. history, Florida Democratic Party says

First, Gov. Rick Scott scared the bejesus out of seniors with an online ad claiming that Medicare rate cuts would lead t

www.politifact.com

 

[efil4]

Trump trying to form public narrative on tariffs
This is for his core supporters who think a quota is $.25

 

[bird]

Trump trying to form public narrative on tariffs
This is for his core supporters who think a quota is $.25

Trump understands nothing about tariffs. It hasn’t, doesn’t, and won’t destroy the U.S.

 

[Neworleansfan]

Trump understands nothing about tariffs. It hasn’t, doesn’t, and won’t destroy the U.S.

I disagree. He does understand it and also the millionaire and billionaire who support him. Those posts are for those who don’t understand tariffs. It is the most regressive form of taxation there is.

 

[MT15]

And there are imbeciles who would defend this to the death (pun intended).

I see your pun…. and raise you a metaphor.

 

[TampaJoe]

Republicans never ever really want to stop Medicare fraud - as already mentioned - Rick Scott is a GOP senator. He committed the worst case of Medicare fraud ever found, IIRC.

Checking my memory with PolitiFact: yes, at the time it was committed Rick Scott oversaw the largest Medicare fraud ever found. It has now been surpassed. Not by any individual or group of individuals, mind you, by another corporation. Rick Scott paid zero price. He wasn’t even disqualified from being a Republican candidate. The GOP doesn’t care one bit about fraud against the government. They’re just using a tired old trope to con people like Joe into thinking they care.

Rick Scott 'oversaw the largest Medicare fraud' in U.S. history, Florida Democratic Party says

First, Gov. Rick Scott scared the bejesus out of seniors with an online ad claiming that Medicare rate cuts would lead t

www.politifact.com

What is telling here is that MT left out some pretty important facts. Very conveniently left out some pretty important facts. The case she references wasn’t investigated by Republicans in a Republican administration. Yet she blames Republicans claiming they aren’t serious. No that case was investigated during the Clinton administration under AG Janet Reno. Was MT implying that Bill and Janet weren’t serious about Medicare Fraud?

Same tired old trope? That is exactly what you spewed. For what it is worth. I thought Reno was a decent AG. If she didn’t pursue charges against Scott, there must not have been a case against him personally. But lack of facts and evidence won’t stand in the way of MT using a “tired old trope”.

 

[efil4]

What is telling here is that MT left out some pretty important facts. Very conveniently left out some pretty important facts. The case she references wasn’t investigated by Republicans in a Republican administration. Yet she blames Republicans claiming they aren’t serious. No that case was investigated during the Clinton administration under AG Janet Reno. Was MT implying that Bill and Janet weren’t serious about Medicare Fraud?

Same tired old trope? That is exactly what you spewed. For what it is worth. I thought Reno was a decent AG. If she didn’t pursue charges against Scott, there must not have been a case against him personally. But lack of facts and evidence won’t stand in the way of MT using a “tired old trope”.

He was CEO of HCA. Who was fined 1.7Billion and paid it.

No company pays a 1.7B fine unless guilty.

Very hard to hold a CEO personally liable, so they go after the entity.

They did and won.

Are you saying since Rick Scott wasn't personally charged, he didn't do anything wrong?

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

No that case was investigated during the Clinton administration under AG Janet Reno. Was MT implying that Bill and Janet weren’t serious about Medicare Fraud?

Are you saying that securing a 14 count felony conviction and a $1.8 BILLION in punitive damages against HCA is not serious?

 

[TampaJoe]

Are you saying that securing a 14 count felony conviction and a $1.8 BILLION in punitive damages against HCA is not serious?

Not at all. I am saying that’s not the same thing as a finding of guilt of Medicare Fraud against Rick Scott. I am saying that’s the folks who investigated this case were not Republicans. I am sure that if Janet Reno had evidence of guilt against Rick Scott she would have charged him. Are you implying that she isn’t serious about Medicare Fraud? Wouldn’t a serious AG charge someone with criminal fraud if they had evidence of fraud by that individual?

 

[bird]

I disagree. He does understand it and also the millionaire and billionaire who support him. Those posts are for those who don’t understand tariffs. It is the most regressive form of taxation there is.

His understanding is either completely accurate as to how they actually work or it is his binary “them vs me” deeply embedded in his damaged psyche. I think it is the latter. That being said he pushes that view upon his base.

Beyond that it is not arbitrarily wealth that supports him. I have been thinking about wealth vs rich. There are a host of beliefs that move in and out of importance depending upon the political economy circumstances.

Wealth is, imo, someone like Buffett. Wealth wants stability, consistency. Their belief structures as regards social concerns again will vary in importance. Sometimes they might impact such concerns by funneling money in various directions.

Rich is something else entirely. Rich believes that they are smarter than everyone else. They may or may not have actually created something or may simply have been at the right place in the right time a la Musk or Bezos. Rich believes their success monetarily entitles them to pontificate and force change on a variety of subjects. Gates is one of those. Money seeks chaos, seeks power to control their money streams.

So as regards tariffs, wealth generally does understand and generally does not want them. Rich is basically the opposite. Tariffs are simply another stepping stone for chaos. Rich then supports Trumps narrative.

I probably haven’t explained this very well.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

He was CEO of HCA. Who was fined 1.7Billion and paid it.

No company pays a 1.7B fine unless guilty.

Very hard to hold a CEO personally liable, so they go after the entity.

They did and won.

Not to mention, they DID convict 2 other executives and those convictions were overturned.

 

[TampaJoe]

He was CEO of HCA. Who was fined 1.7Billion and paid it.

No company pays a 1.7B fine unless guilty.

Very hard to hold a CEO personally liable, so they go after the entity.

They did and won.

Are you saying since Rick Scott wasn't personally charged, he didn't do anything wrong?

I did not say the company wasn’t guilty. And I agree that white collar crimes are often hard to prove. But not impossible. It is also possible he wasn’t guilty of fraud. I don’t know if Rick Scott personally did anything wrong. I’m assume Reno’s DOJ did a professional and thorough investigation and didn’t find enough evidence to warrant charges against the man. You demand proof of guilt anytime someone questions the integrity of a Democrat. And yet here you assume guilt after a thourough professional investigation that produced no charges much less a finding of actual guilt. Maybe that whole innocent until proven guilty thing only works for one party?

The people of Florida know this man best. He has been elected multiple times for Governor and multiple times as Senator. Often at times when the state was a purple swing state.

But the case referenced was adjudicated during the Clinton administration. We need to worry about waste fraud and abuse today. We need to worry about corruption today and in the future. Obviously what we are doing isn’t working.

 

[bird]

He was CEO of HCA. Who was fined 1.7Billion and paid it.

No company pays a 1.7B fine unless guilty.

Very hard to hold a CEO personally liable, so they go after the entity.

They did and won.

Are you saying since Rick Scott wasn't personally charged, he didn't do anything wrong?

Remove limited liability. Hold top management liable.

 

[Optimus Prime]

OMG, Ernst just made it worse: