The Joe Biden 2020 tracker thread (2 Viewers)

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    Farb said:
    I think it boils down to not wanting to award irresponsible behavior.
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    I think that has a place in the discussion, and the perception is certainly there.

    But do you think there are some economic conditions and trends in our country that don't seem sustainable? Do you recognize the mounting pressure on a growing class of people?

    Median household income in the U.S. is about $63,000. Where I live, it's about $55,000 while the median home price just went over $400,000. Now factor in school costs, health care, transportation, groceries, and other costs of living and the math just doesn't work for a lot of people. Many simply don't make enough to save sufficiently for college costs, and if they can put money away, it's even less that they have to participate in other sectors of the economy. That has a direct effect on jobs and incomes.

    I wish we could figure out how to strip the political divides out of the challenges threatening middle class existence. We might see that most of us share many of the same concerns, but because of hyper partisanship, we can't talk to each other in ways to work towards solutions. If I was under 30 in America, I'm not sure I'd be feeling very confident about my future.
     
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    When the industry acts irresponsibly, they get bailed out because they are too big do fail.
     
    Incumbent said:
    I think that has a place in the discussion, and the perception is certainly there.

    But do you think there are some economic conditions and trends in our country that don't seem sustainable? Do you recognize the mounting pressure on a growing class of people?

    Median household income in the U.S. is about $63,000. Where I live, it's about $55,000 while the median home price just went over $400,000. Now factor in school costs, health care, transportation, groceries, and other costs of living and the math just doesn't work for a lot of people. Many simply don't make enough to save sufficiently for college costs, and if they can put money away, it's even less that they have to participate in other sectors of the economy. That has a direct effect on jobs and incomes.

    I wish we could figure out how to strip the political divides out of the challenges threatening middle class existence. We might see that most of us share many of the same concerns, but because of hyper partisanship, we can't talk to each other in ways to work towards solutions. If I was under 30 in America, I'm not sure I'd be feeling very confident about my future.
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    I don't know if you are comfortable sharing where you live, but those numbers are out of whack and are clearly a problem. Median household income in the U.S. is almost $70,000 while the median cost of a house is about $225,000 So you live in a place where housing costs are 2/5 or more higher than average while income is 20%-25% lower than average. Clearly that is not a very good situation for people to be in.

    I agree with you about searching for solutions - and housing is the biggest or second-biggest pocketbook issue imo (along with health care).
    And imo getting rid of student debt won't do much for housing costs - if anything, it will drive costs higher. Housing costs are really complext and also have such huge differences from city to city and even from neighborhood to neighborhood that I do not think a single sort of policy will do much to make housing more affordable.
     
    Jim I think that could be almost any mid to large city in either the South or the Rustbelt.

    I’ll look up mine to compare.

    Smallish Midwestern city:

    median household income: $39,378
    median home value: $149,900

    however, the median list price of homes for sale is $190,000

    We have had a consistent problem with there being no new homes built in the lower price range, and very few lower price homes on the market. I think that’s common everywhere and it makes it very difficult for young couples to get in the housing market.
     
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    Farb said:
    If you don't pay it back, yes.

    But you knew that.
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    (No, I said nor implied nothing of the sort.)

    They're being paid back...

    If you take out a loan and that loan is fully or partially forgiven by the creditor, that means *you* are irresponsible? :idunno:
     
    JimEverett said:
    I don't know if you are comfortable sharing where you live, but those numbers are out of whack and are clearly a problem. Median household income in the U.S. is almost $70,000 while the median cost of a house is about $225,000 So you live in a place where housing costs are 2/5 or more higher than average while income is 20%-25% lower than average. Clearly that is not a very good situation for people to be in.

    I agree with you about searching for solutions - and housing is the biggest or second-biggest pocketbook issue imo (along with health care).
    And imo getting rid of student debt won't do much for housing costs - if anything, it will drive costs higher. Housing costs are really complext and also have such huge differences from city to city and even from neighborhood to neighborhood that I do not think a single sort of policy will do much to make housing more affordable.
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    Yeah, I don't really know what the right answers are beyond speculating on general ideas. I know something can sound good on the surface - like denser development ranging from multifamily units to high-rise projects - but then there are issues that come along with rapid increases in demand on the area's infrastructure and retail. So necessary planning takes time. Mixed-use developments are increasing here. Nothing, so far, seems to help much on housing prices.

    Comprehensive, efficient mass transit could help - especially in making areas surrounding the city more attractive if not having to deal with heavy traffic and long commutes (a problem in many places). Local government is exploring an expansion of the existing light rail and possibly even a limited subway project, but that will be many years to completion so it's something that needed to be taken seriously decades ago. I think that's also something that is true in many American cities.

    I do think there are some tremendous economic opportunities with large-scale infrastructure and energy projects in this country, and that's something I was hopeful about with Trump, by way of Bannon, early on.
     
    Ideally, you would like to see things spread out more. Not only to various cities but even trying to get higher-paying industries into small-town America.

    I have a brother-in-law who is a really smart guy, highly educated and because of his industry was basically stuck into moving to the Bay Area or DC. He may have been able to get something in Boston, but that was far harder. He chose the Bay Area, lived there for 5 years making a quarter of a million-plus each year but left because he couldn't afford a house for his family. He is now teaching, not really doing what he wants or had planned to do but lives in a place where at least he can own a house with a yard and send children to decent schools.
     
    V Chip said:
    (No, I said nor implied nothing of the sort.)

    They're being paid back...

    If you take out a loan and that loan is fully or partially forgiven by the creditor, that means *you* are irresponsible? :idunno:
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    How is a loan fully or partially forgiven? Does the creditor take a loss? Does the creditor receive some type of reimbursement and if so, from whom?
     
    I think you guys are talking about different things. In the Warren scenario, the loans would be forgiven because there would be free attendance at university, I’m guessing. So nobody who currently has loans would have to continue to pay them back either.

    There’s no default, the policy changed during their repayment schedule.

    And evidently the man who has already paid his children’s loans back is mad that other people won’t have to. Seems a bit petty to me, but whatever he wants to feel about it.

    I repaid mine and one of my kids’ loans already, so I suppose I could feel cheated and get angry. But I choose to be happy that current students will have a huge burden lifted and be able to pursue educational opportunities they may not have been able to have before.
     
    I can see that MT15.
    I can see the other side of the argument. I also think this will eventually turn into a separate thread so as not to hijack this thread into a student loans thread. I think exploring if college is as necessary for kids today as it has been pushed in the past would be an interesting topic for another thread.
     
    Farb said:
    I can see that MT15.
    I can see the other side of the argument. I also think this will eventually turn into a separate thread so as not to hijack this thread into a student loans thread. I think exploring if college is as necessary for kids today as it has been pushed in the past would be an interesting topic for another thread.
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    Not just whether it’s necessary, but changes we can make to how education is offered, the time and requirements to complete a degree, and evolving alternatives to conventional degree programs to prepare students to enter the workforce.

    I think most people can agree that it’s a significant strain on individuals and on the economy to have students taking on tens of thousands of dollars of loan debt, but that we still need a highly skilled, educated workforce.
     
    Why should taxpayers be on the hook to pay for loans to private universities - the schools that are the most ridiculously overpriced?

    Or is Warren, and perhaps others, arguing that the loans just be defaulted and never paid back?

    I can see changing the rules and allowing school loans to be eligible for discharge in bankruptcy.

    Perhaps I could see some sort of loan forgiveness for public institutions (absent some sort of action - we already have loan forgiveness programs in place if the debtor agrees to certain types of jobs). But not taxpayer-funded bailout of loans that went to private institutions.
     
    I agree completely, it also depends on what degree the tens of thousands of dollars loan was used obtain.
     
    Farb said:
    How is a loan fully or partially forgiven? Does the creditor take a loss? Does the creditor receive some type of reimbursement and if so, from whom?
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    Does it matter? Creditors write off loans all the time — some because of late payments but some do partial forgiveness for a variety of reasons. You might have a loan from a family member or good friend who just says don’t worry about it.

    I used to always make sure I paid back all my loans and obligations no matter what. Once I lost everything in Katrina, my attitude changed — I’m much more willing to accept someone’s offer to reduce my debt without fighting it like I used to. I also don’t begrudge someone else getting a repayment or forgiveness but then I never have done that.
     

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