Ruth Bader Ginsburg has passed (Replaced by Amy Coney Barrett)(Now Abortion Discussion) (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Ugh... breaking news I DID NOT want to see.

ETA: Reported on CNN.

 

[Optimus Prime]

From a few years ago

 

[Farb]

No.

I mean you’re trolling.

You’ve made posts asking people if they were ok with late term abortions as if that is a point of delineation meaningful to the debate, when in reality, you believe that an abortion the day after conception is baby murder. You believe that an abortion due to rape or incest or to save the life of the mother is baby murder.

You disingenuously ask people questions pretending like it’s a debate when in reality none of their answers to those questions matter with regard to your point of view.

So the role of debate on this board it for me, or better yet, those that don't agree with the 'mob' to change their minds on the subject but not the other way around? Questions are only allowed one way?
Trolling doesn't mean to possess a view you disagree with.

 

[MT15]

Farb is allowed to ask questions just like we are. But I wish he would be more forthright sometimes in answering questions that are posed to him. Tbf, he has more than one person to engage with at a time, so I try to be understanding of that. Something I was taught when I first became a manager of people was to “assume good intent”. I mostly try to do that, even though I certainly fail. I have noticed it’s far easier to lose patience online, when if I were to talk with Farb in person, I doubt I would ever do that. What I probably would do in person is joke around more with him.

Joking around is difficult online. At least for me. Sorry for rambling, lol.

Farb, I’m sure to you all us :commies: are indistinguishable, but we are far from a “mob”. We have varying degrees of opinions, if you pay attention. Maybe not so much on this topic, as it involves basic human rights.

 

[samiam5211]

So the role of debate on this board it for me, or better yet, those that don't agree with the 'mob' to change their minds on the subject but not the other way around? Questions are only allowed one way?
Trolling doesn't mean to possess a view you disagree with.

If you believe that all abortions are baby murder, then it doesn't matter to you whether someone supports abortions in the first trimester only, or up to the due date.

If you were having an honest debate about your views on abortion, the only relevant issue is whether or not abortion is baby murder, for you to discuss any other issue is being disingenuous.

 

[Farb]

If you believe that all abortions are baby murder, then it doesn't matter to you whether someone supports abortions in the first trimester only, or up to the due date.

If you were having an honest debate about your views on abortion, the only relevant issue is whether or not abortion is baby murder, for you to discuss any other issue is being disingenuous.

That still makes no sense to me. Because of my view, I am trolling if I try get my point across and maybe make someone think about a subject from a different perspective? On the other hand, it is not trolling and indeed honest debate if a person who agrees with you?
If we followed this example then all threads would be just stating your position and logging off, because all other dialogue is just 'trolling'?

I might be missing the point, as a matter of fact, I am sure I am, so please explain

 

[brandon]

That still makes no sense to me. Because of my view, I am trolling if I try get my point across and maybe make someone think about a subject from a different perspective? On the other hand, it is not trolling and indeed honest debate if a person who agrees with you?
If we followed this example then all threads would be just stating your position and logging off, because all other dialogue is just 'trolling'?

I might be missing the point, as a matter of fact, I am sure I am, so please explain

The point is, if you think abortion is baby murder, then it is inconsistent to allow abortion in the cases of rape or incest. If baby murder is your position, then no matter how horrific the means of conception, it still doesn't excuse murdering a child.

Therefore, there's really nothing to discuss. If baby murder is your position, there's no middle ground to be had, and unless there's a chance you could waver in your position that abortion is baby murder, there's no point in going any further with the discussion.

It's why we don't negotiate with terrorists. You can't rationally argue with extremism.

 

[Optimus Prime]

just watched tis last night. Fascinating documentary

I never knew that Roe never had an abortion

 

[insidejob]

The most radical of the bunch is Senate Bill 1167, filed by state Sen. George Burns (R). Titled the Every Mother Matters Act, or EMMA, it would establish a government database for pregnant people looking to get abortions in Oklahoma. Each pregnant person will call a hotline and be connected with a “pre-abortion resource” assistant, but that person is legally not allowed to refer a patient to an abortion provider. The pregnant person would then be assigned a “unique identifying number” in the database, and abortion providers would be mandated to keep the information for seven years.

As part of the program, the woman will “be connected with a care agent who will provide, at no cost to her, an assessment of eligibility and offer assistance in obtaining support services, other than abortion, for her or the unborn child’s biological father,” according to a press statement from Burns’ office. The services include information on adoption, housing, employment, child care and more, but not on abortion care. It is unclear if the hotline assistants will have any medical expertise in reproductive care, but the legislation does bar anyone who’s worked for an abortion clinic in the past from signing up to be a resource agent.

“Many women facing unexpected pregnancies turn to abortion because they feel like they have no choice. We want to make sure they have an opportunity to connect with medical, financial and other resources that they may not know about,” Burns said in the press statement. “This legislation will do that as well as provide screening to identify those who’ve been victims of crime so that, with the woman’s consent, a report can be made to the appropriate law enforcement agency.”

Burns added that his “ultimate goal is ending abortion.” He did not respond to HuffPost’s request for comment.

Oklahoma Considers Database For Pregnant People As Roe Hangs In The Balance

Conservative lawmakers have proposed a raft of extreme bills, which the governor has already promised to sign.

news.yahoo.com

Database of women considering abortion? Yeah, Oklahoma GQP, you can go ahead and fork right off. Talk about Big Brother getting involved in your personal, medical history.

 

[Farb]

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-abortions-dropped-60-percent-211549375.html

Thu, February 10, 2022, 3:15 PM·2 min read

Abortions in Texas dropped nearly 60 percent in the first month the most restrictive abortion law in the nation was in effect, according to state data.
The number of abortions performed in the state fell from 5,404 in August to just 2,197 in September. The Texas heartbeat law, S.B. 8, bans all abortions after fetal cardiac activity is detected, typically around six weeks of pregnancy, before most women know they are pregnant.
The figures from the Texas Health Department, which were released earlier this month, show the dramatic impact of the law just one month after it took effect. Data has not been released for the rest of 2021 beyond September.
The law authorizes citizens to file private lawsuits against those who perform, aid or abet an abortion after six weeks. Successful suits under S.B. 8, which contains no exceptions for rape or incest, fetch at least $10,000.

Good news for the pro-life folks among us even from a left leaning article!

 

[coldseat]

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-abortions-dropped-60-percent-211549375.html

Thu, February 10, 2022, 3:15 PM·2 min read

Abortions in Texas dropped nearly 60 percent in the first month the most restrictive abortion law in the nation was in effect, according to state data.
The number of abortions performed in the state fell from 5,404 in August to just 2,197 in September. The Texas heartbeat law, S.B. 8, bans all abortions after fetal cardiac activity is detected, typically around six weeks of pregnancy, before most women know they are pregnant.
The figures from the Texas Health Department, which were released earlier this month, show the dramatic impact of the law just one month after it took effect. Data has not been released for the rest of 2021 beyond September.
The law authorizes citizens to file private lawsuits against those who perform, aid or abet an abortion after six weeks. Successful suits under S.B. 8, which contains no exceptions for rape or incest, fetch at least $10,000.

Good news for the pro-life folks among us even from a left leaning article!

Is it really?

Advocates say the impact of S.B. 8 has fallen hardest on poor people, as well as Black and brown communities, and neighboring states have reported an influx of Texas residents seeking abortions, according to abortion rights advocates.

Abortion clinics in 11 other states and the District of Columbia reported to the Guttmacher Institute that they had performed abortions on Texas residents since the law took effect.

The data consistently showed slightly more medication abortions performed throughout 2021, but in September the gap widened dramatically, as there were more than twice as many nonsurgical abortions.

In contrast to a surgical abortion, which takes place in a clinic, a medication abortion involves two pills, taken 48 hours apart, to end a pregnancy.

I mean, I guess you pro-lifers have managed to trap the poor in Texas but, just as we all knew it would happen, those with means just travel to get their abortions.

So, you've got the poor. Yay, .

 

[Port City JJ]

Is it really?



I mean, I guess you pro-lifers have managed to trap the poor in Texas, but just as we all knew it would happen, those with means just travel to get their abortions.

So, you've got the poor. Yay, .

These are the types of realizations that led me to leave the republican party.

Lot's of conservative principles sound good and would be great if there was equity in the world, but we do not start from the same positions, we do not all have the same obstacles in life. So many things that I previously believed about how a government should be run and how America should operate actually do the most harm to the people who can least afford it, or people who are least equipped to overcome it.

So many of these policies harm poor people or minority groups the most.





This is in no way an endorsement of the neoliberals running the DNC.

 

[Farb]

Maybe if you looked at it as 60% of children that would have ended up in a dumpster or scientific testing will have a chance to live would make you feel better?

 

[CoolBrees]

most will end up in the endless loop of generational poverty.

They will be the lucky ones. At least they will have a family. The unlucky ones will be the ones who become foster children. And before you ask if they would rather have never existed in the first place, I promise you will either not believe me or dismiss it when I say for a lot of them they would absolutely pick non existence over theirs.

My wife is a social worker as I have mentioned before. These kids try to kill themselves all the time. Not the cry for help type, either. The tired of being sexually abused and having no one give a shirt about them type where you jump off roofs. The ones that don’t kill themselves end up in prison- like 75% of kids who age out. In short they have no options, no hope and no one. And we as society are burdened with their care as children and then as institutionalized adults.

But hey at least you all forced someone who had the audacity to have sex to carry a clump of cells u til it becomes viable. I hope the people that are robbed or murdered by that clump of cells isn’t anyone you know.

 

[SamAndreas]

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-abortions-dropped-60-percent-211549375.html

Thu, February 10, 2022, 3:15 PM·2 min read

Abortions in Texas dropped nearly 60 percent in the first month the most restrictive abortion law in the nation was in effect, according to state data.
The number of abortions performed in the state fell from 5,404 in August to just 2,197 in September. The Texas heartbeat law, S.B. 8, bans all abortions after fetal cardiac activity is detected, typically around six weeks of pregnancy, before most women know they are pregnant.
The figures from the Texas Health Department, which were released earlier this month, show the dramatic impact of the law just one month after it took effect. Data has not been released for the rest of 2021 beyond September.
The law authorizes citizens to file private lawsuits against those who perform, aid or abet an abortion after six weeks. Successful suits under S.B. 8, which contains no exceptions for rape or incest, fetch at least $10,000.

Good news for the pro-life folks among us even from a left leaning article!

Farb that's a Hill reprint article. The Hill is a conservative paper and always has been. There's no left lean to that.

 

[Farb]

most will end up in the endless loop of generational poverty.

They will be the lucky ones. At least they will have a family. The unlucky ones will be the ones who become foster children. And before you ask if they would rather have never existed in the first place, I promise you will either not believe me or dismiss it when I say for a lot of them they would absolutely pick non existence over theirs.

My wife is a social worker as I have mentioned before. These kids try to kill themselves all the time. Not the cry for help type, either. The tired of being sexually abused and having no one give a shirt about them type where you jump off roofs. The ones that don’t kill themselves end up in prison- like 75% of kids who age out. In short they have no options, no hope and no one. And we as society are burdened with their care as children and then as institutionalized adults.

But hey at least you all forced someone who had the audacity to have sex to carry a clump of cells u til it becomes viable. I hope the people that are robbed or murdered by that clump of cells isn’t anyone you know.

So death is the better option? I would imagine if you asked them they would pick to be alive regardless of if they are poor or not.

 

[CoolBrees]

No not death, Farb.

Nonexistence. As in they never existed to live a life of total misery from the moment they are born - quick side note here. We took in a 3 month old named Scarlett as an emergency placement. She was born addicted to meth, and her arms and legs looked like Popeye’s arms. She was so tensed up from the withdrawal her muscles developed in three months from the constant workout. But she could lift her head. She went to a foster home after a month. We have no idea what happened to her but I think about her all the time as I walked that kid to sleep for a month.

My wife had to take a week off recently because a 13 year old girl ran away from her placement and was trafficked. She was on the news as a missing person until she was found at a homeless camp unconscious and full of drugs. And HIV+.

So yeah. There are some that would absolutely pick never feeling anything over that I bet. I know I would.

 

[Farb]

You are not talking about not 'feeling' anything you are talking about killing a child to 'save' it from a life of struggle. What happens if that struggle, produces iron. Iron sharpens iron.
I would still imagine that most poor people, those down on their luck, addicts or criminals would rather of had the chance to live than not.

 

[CoolBrees]

no I am not. You have yet to provide a modicum of proof other than Jeebus as to why a zygote is a child.

Stop asking grown up questions if you don’t like grown up answers