Pence / Does he have ANY chance? (2 Viewers)

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    SteveSBrickNJ

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    Mike Pence seems to be laying the groundwork for a presidential run.
    His plan apparently is to try to tie himself to the policies that were/are popular with Republican voters....yet...
    greatly distance himself from former President Trump.
    Hmmmm.
    Good luck with that.
     
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    What is equity, and how can we achieve it?
    We had a long discussion about this a while back


    I posted this there
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    To go back to the original theme of this thread about equality and equity

    In another thread someone used the race analogy but one runner is starting 20 meters behind (I've also heard versions with not only starting behind but also have ankle weights and a heavy backpack)

    The analogy I've always heard more often was marbles

    2 people - Person A and Person B

    Person A gets 3 marbles a day while Person B gets 1

    After a year the powers that be declare this to be unfair and wants to change things to make it more equal

    Great! But what does that mean and how do you do it?

    And there are two issues: making it fair moving forward and to rectify past imbalance

    Issue 1 - Fair moving forward

    Solution 1 - Take a marble from Person A and give it to Person B - now both get 2 marbles a day

    Solution 2 - Both Person A & B get 3 marbles a day

    Solution 3 - Both Person A & B get 1 marble a day

    Which option do you go with?

    Which option can you do without Person A screaming bloody murder?

    In solution 2 Person A stays a 3 a day so hasn't 'lost' anything, so can't say 'They're taking our marbles!' But from A's point of view B is all of a sudden getting 3 times what they were before while they stay the same and 'how is that fair?!'

    And don't forget the past. no matter what solution there is for moving forward there is the past to deal with

    We're a year in, so person A has 1095 marbles to Person B's 365

    How do you make that right? Even if everything is fair and even for the future how do you make up that 730 marble shortfall?

    And again, how do you do it so Person A doesn't think it's the greatest injustice in the history of the world?
     
    Pence is really on the ropes....
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    Pence is really on the ropes....
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    Good. There ought to be some consequences for kowtowing to Trump for 4 years. He did his job on Jan 6, but the rest of the time he was weak and namby-pamby.
     
    Good. There ought to be some consequences for kowtowing to Trump for 4 years. He did his job on Jan 6, but the rest of the time he was weak and namby-pamby.
    To pile on Pence, I'm tired of the BS about how he stood up to Trump to certify the election. Let's look at how it actually unfolded.
    • Trump and co-conspirators asked Pence to halt the certification of the electoral count and send it back to the states.
    • Did Pence so no to Trump? No he didn't.
    • Pence sought the advice of someone he respected as a constitutional authority. That person told him he couldn't do it. Did Pence tell Trump no then? No he didn't.
    • Pence went to a second person he respected and asked again, "can I do this?" That person told Pence, "no, you can't." Did Pence then tell Trump no? No he didn't.
    • Pence went to a third person he respected to ask again, "can I do this?" That person told Pence, "no, you can't."
    • Only then did Pence say he wouldn't do it.
    Pence clearly wanted to do it and was looking for someone he respected to tell him he could. Fortunately, they all told him no. You don't keep asking around to see if you can do something, unless you really want to do that something.

    The only reason Pence said no, is because he knew he didn't have a choice. He's not a hero. He's just a guy who wasn't willing to break the law. If Pence is a hero, then so are the vast majority of us, because most of us also aren't willing to break the law.
     
    To pile on Pence, I'm tired of the BS about how he stood up to Trump to certify the election. Let's look at how it actually unfolded.
    • Trump and co-conspirators asked Pence to halt the certification of the electoral count and send it back to the states.
    • Did Pence so no to Trump? No he didn't.
    • Pence sought the advice of someone he respected as a constitutional authority. That person told him he couldn't do it. Did Pence tell Trump no then? No he didn't.
    • Pence went to a second person he respected and asked again, "can I do this?" That person told Pence, "no, you can't." Did Pence then tell Trump no? No he didn't.
    • Pence went to a third person he respected to ask again, "can I do this?" That person told Pence, "no, you can't."
    • Only then did Pence say he wouldn't do it.
    Pence clearly wanted to do it and was looking for someone he respected to tell him he could. Fortunately, they all told him no. You don't keep asking around to see if you can do something, unless you really want to do that something.

    The only reason Pence said no, is because he knew he didn't have a choice. He's not a hero. He's just a guy who wasn't willing to break the law. If Pence is a hero, then so are the vast majority of us, because most of us also aren't willing to break the law.

    He also put the needs of his party, his fealty to Trump on full display.....DESPITE, Trump putting not just him but his immediate family (if memory serves his wife and kids were with him in the Capital) in danger.....unconscionable to me.....what a religious cult wackjob.....
     
    Good. There ought to be some consequences for kowtowing to Trump for 4 years. He did his job on Jan 6, but the rest of the time he was weak and namby-pamby.
    Yea, unfortunately that’s not the dynamic at play here, as these are Republican primary debates we’re discussing.

    He’s being punished for not being Trumpy enough.
     
    Yea, unfortunately that’s not the dynamic at play here, as these are Republican primary debates we’re discussing.

    He’s being punished for not being Trumpy enough.
    Yeah, but I’m looking for that silver lining, lol
     
    HUDSON, N.H. — As he finished up his remarks at an outdoor garden party hosted by a former state senator, Mike Pence made one final request to prospective voters.


    “Even one dollar, although I want to emphasize you can give a lot more, would be a help tonight, even before you go to bed tonight, go online, send us a buck or whatever,” the former vice president said, dressed in a crisp light-blue button-down and navy slacks on a hot summer day in the Granite State.

    “We’re working around-the-clock to make sure we get enough donors to be up on that debate stage and I’ll see you all at the inauguration.”


    One day later, nearly 80 miles away at the Wicwas Lake Grange in Meredith, N.H., state Sen. Timothy Lang Sr. stood alongside Pence at an evening town hall with a similar plea, encouraging attendees to grab a “Mike Pence for President” card with a QR code: “If you want to donate just a dollar, it counts toward the 40,000.”

    It’s a remarkable request from a longtime and prominent Republican figure who, just 2½ years ago, was the second-highest official in the country under Donald Trump. But now, Pence is soliciting supporters for small-dollar donations in hopes of crossing the 40,000-donor threshold for participation in the first GOP debate in Milwaukee on Aug. 23.


    While Pence’s advisers are emphatic that he will make the debate stage, the mere uncertainty is emblematic of the early challenges the Indiana Republican is confronting in his nascent campaign.

    Pence has struggled to gain attention or traction by running a traditional and low-key conservative campaign in a race dominated by firebrands like Trump and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis……..

     
    My guess is that as good Christian fascists/wackos they follow Pence's lead.....no matter what.....
    You know....I am getting tired of you speaking in this manner. Would you speak about Islam in the same way?🤔
     
    You know....I am getting tired of you speaking in this manner. Would you speak about Islam in the same way?🤔

    I'm glad you are getting tired of it, so I will keep it up for sure. I don't believe in any organized religion really, they all do more harm than good.....

    The Taliban and the right wing Christian wackos in this county have way more in common than you would ever admit.....
     
    I'm glad you are getting tired of it, so I will keep it up for sure. I don't believe in any organized religion really, they all do more harm than good.....

    The Taliban and the right wing Christian wackos in this county have way more in common than you would ever admit.....
    I bet if I looked through your posting history( you are maybe just throwing in "Taliban" today....and you don't mention ISLAM which is a religion....you mention "Taliban" ...which is not a religion)...anyway... I imagine I would discover you never posted anything before today that is anti-semitic or anti Islamic. Even today...being anti Taliban is not the same as being anti Islam. My GUESS is you are and have been limiting your bigotry to Christianity. Can you quote yourself and show past examples to prove me wrong?
    BTW...
    Most people avoid openly calling someone's religion names. Most people are more respectful than you.
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    and I just noticed that four people gave your "Christian wackos" justification posting a thumbs up emoji.
    Wow!
     
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    I bet if I looked through your posting history( you are maybe just throwing in "Taliban" today....and you don't mention ISLAM which is a religion....you mention "Taliban" ...which is not a religion)...anyway... I imagine I would discover you never posted anything before today that is anti-semitic or anti Islamic. Even today...being anti Taliban is not the same as being anti Islam. My GUESS is you are and have been limiting your bigotry to Christianity. Can you quote yourself and show past examples to prove me wrong?
    BTW...
    Most people avoid openly calling someone's religion names. Most people are more respectful than you.
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    and I just noticed that four people gave your "Christian wackos" justification posting a thumbs up emoji.
    Wow!
    Saying "Christian fascists/wackos" is grammatically the opposite of saying all Christians are fascists/wackos.

    It may be tiresome to hear, but it is a reality that there are fascists/wacko Christians in our country that are doing everything they can, including resorting to violence, to take control of our society to turn us into an extremist, fundamentalist Christian state.

    I was raised Catholic. Extreme and fascists Catholics are the biggest threat to us right now. See the Supreme Court as case in point.

    It's not anti-group to call out the extreme elements in a group of people. When I call out the extremism of the Taliban and the Saudi royal family, that doesn't mean I'm anti-Islamic. When I call out the extremism of the Israeli government and military, that doesn't mean I'm antisemitic or anti-Jewish.

    There's no reason to bury our heads in the sand to the real and present danger that extreme, fundamentalist Christians pose to our society. Fortunately, they make up a small percentage of the Christians in our society. The reason you don't hear people calling out extremist, fundamentalist Muslims or Jews on this board is because they are currently less of a threat to our society and our democracy as extremist, fundamentalist Christians are.

    If you are Christian and not an extremist, fundamentalist, then you should be calling them out and criticizing them louder than anyone else. When my friends or family members are being jerks to other people, I call them out very loudly and very publicly. We should hold the people who we identify with and who are the closest to us to the highest level of accountability, instead of ignoring or making excuses for their unacceptable behavior.
     
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    When I hear Pence speaking the way he has in interviews of late, I lament the fact that the people who he claims are god-fearing, law-abiding citizens who love this country and our constitution didn't get the change to show him how much they fear God and obey laws as they proceeded to unalive him.
     

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