Now is not the time to talk about gun control (3 Viewers)

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[BullSheetBuddha]

How Hollywood is focusing more on gun safety on set

As actor Alec Baldwin faces a charge of involuntary manslaughter in the shooting death of a cinematographer on a New Mexico, gun safety on sets remains at the forefront of many in Hollywood.

www.pbs.org

His union, and his lawyer, say this onus can’t be placed on performers.

“An actor’s job is not to be a firearms or weapons expert,” the Screen Actors Guild said in a statement Thursday. “Firearms are provided for their use under the guidance of multiple expert professionals directly responsible for the safe and accurate operation of that firearm.”

Baldwin’s defense attorney Luke Nikas said in a statement that he did his job by relying “on the professionals with whom he worked, who assured him the gun did not have live rounds.”

Of course his union and lawyer are going to say that.

Santa Fe District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies disagrees.

“It is incumbent on anybody that holds a gun to make sure that it is either not loaded or to know what it is loaded with,” she said in an interview with The Associated Press. “And certainly then to not point it at someone and pull the trigger. That’s where his actor liability, we think, comes in.”

She also emphasized that while Baldwin is to be charged as the man with the gun in his hand, his role as a producer, and at least partial responsibility for the lax conditions that led to his having a loaded gun, were a consideration in deciding to bring the charges.

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, who oversaw the film’s firearms, will also be charged with involuntary manslaughter, the district attorney said.

If you have a real firearm in your hand YOU are responsible for it. That responsibility doesn't disappear because you're on a movie set.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Not at a movie set. That's almost entirely on the directors and amorer. There's absolutely no reason a loaded gun should ever be on set. Granted anyone on set should still inspect and ensure weapons on set are safe, but the primary responsibility lies with the directors and amorer.

If you have a real firearm in your hand YOU are responsible for it. That responsibility doesn't disappear because you're on a movie set.

 

[DaveXA]

If you have a real firearm in your hand YOU are responsible for it. That responsibility doesn't disappear because you're on a movie set.

I didn't say it disappears. Read what I said again.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I didn't say it disappears. Read what I said again.

Look, Baldwin fired the gun without knowing what was in the chambers. He's one of the responsible people. Therefore he's being charged and that's as it should be IMO.

 

[DaveXA]

Look, Baldwin fired the gun without knowing what was in the chambers. He's one of the responsible people. Therefore he's being charged and that's as it should be IMO.

It's my understanding he's being charged in his role as director, not as actor. Maybe they wrap it all into one, idk.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

It's my understanding he's being charged in his role as director, not as actor. Maybe they wrap it all into one, idk.

Why Santa Fe district attorney decided to charge Alec Baldwin over ‘Rust’ shooting | CNN

Actor Alec Baldwin will be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter in the fatal shooting of cinematographer  Halyna Hutchins on the set of the Western movie “Rust,” as will the armorer who oversaw all weapons used in the production.

www.cnn.com

Here is why New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies, who spoke with CNN on Thursday, said she decided to file charges:

‘An actor does not get a free pass’​

Other actors – including “A-list” celebrities – consulted by prosecutors said they “always check their guns or have someone check it in front of them,” Carmack-Altwies told CNN shortly after announcing her intention to file involuntary manslaughter charges.

“Every person that handles a gun has a duty to make sure that if they’re going to handle that gun, point it at someone and pull the trigger, that it is not going to fire a projectile and kill someone,” she said.

She added, “An actor does not get a free pass just because they are an actor. That is what is so important. We are saying here in New Mexico, that everyone is equal under the law.”

‘There was such a lack of safety’ on set​

Live rounds were mixed in with dummy rounds on the set, and crews were not checking ammunition regularly, Carmack-Altwies said.

“There was such a lack of safety and safety standards on that set… There were live rounds on set,” she added.

“Nobody was checking those or at least they weren’t checking them consistently. And then they somehow got loaded into a gun handed off to Alec Baldwin. He didn’t check it. He didn’t do any of the things that he was supposed to do to make sure that he was safe or that anyone around him was safe. And then he pointed the gun at Halyna Hutchins and he pulled the trigger.”

 

[cuddlemonkey]

You're talking about a car that failed. The firearm didn't fail. It worked exactly the way a firearm is supposed to work. That's the problem.

No, actually. The firearm is not supposed to be firing real bullets in this scenario, so it didn't behave as intended.

The point is that no matter how well-trained an actor is with firearms, they are not professionals. The armorer has one job, and that is to ensure that every single firearm on the set is safe and unloaded before anyone else touches it. They are responsible for what happens with every firearm. The armorer on the set of Rust is fully responsible for a loaded weapon making it onto the set, full stop.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

The armorer on the set of Rust is fully responsible for a loaded weapon making it onto the set, full stop.

Well, the attorney general of New Mexico says Baldwin has a responsibility here. and that's an understatement:

‘An actor does not get a free pass’​

Other actors – including “A-list” celebrities – consulted by prosecutors said they “always check their guns or have someone check it in front of them,” Carmack-Altwies told CNN shortly after announcing her intention to file involuntary manslaughter charges.

“Every person that handles a gun has a duty to make sure that if they’re going to handle that gun, point it at someone and pull the trigger, that it is not going to fire a projectile and kill someone,” she said.

She added, “An actor does not get a free pass just because they are an actor. That is what is so important. We are saying here in New Mexico, that everyone is equal under the law.”

And I agree with her.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Well, the attorney general of New Mexico says Baldwin has a responsibility here. and that's an understatement:



And I agree with her.

I've seen that quote. You posted it more than once. I just disagree that an actor in this situation should be facing criminal charges. If an actor was performing a stunt for a movie and the stunt coordinator told them everything was fine, but the coordinator neglected to perform a basic safety check prior to the stunt, would you hold the actor responsible if something went wrong and someone else wound up severely injured or dead because of it?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I've seen that quote. You posted it more than once.

Read it again because there's nothing more to say:

‘An actor does not get a free pass’​

Other actors – including “A-list” celebrities – consulted by prosecutors said they “always check their guns or have someone check it in front of them,” Carmack-Altwies told CNN shortly after announcing her intention to file involuntary manslaughter charges.

“Every person that handles a gun has a duty to make sure that if they’re going to handle that gun, point it at someone and pull the trigger, that it is not going to fire a projectile and kill someone,” she said.

She added, “An actor does not get a free pass just because they are an actor. That is what is so important. We are saying here in New Mexico, that everyone is equal under the law.”

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Read it again because there's nothing more to say:

‘An actor does not get a free pass’​

Other actors – including “A-list” celebrities – consulted by prosecutors said they “always check their guns or have someone check it in front of them,” Carmack-Altwies told CNN shortly after announcing her intention to file involuntary manslaughter charges.

“Every person that handles a gun has a duty to make sure that if they’re going to handle that gun, point it at someone and pull the trigger, that it is not going to fire a projectile and kill someone,” she said.

She added, “An actor does not get a free pass just because they are an actor. That is what is so important. We are saying here in New Mexico, that everyone is equal under the law.”

I've read it again. I still disagree because we all know the answer to the question I posed above is no. No actor would have criminal charges brought against them in that situation even though their direct actions resulted in someone dying. Michael Massee was not brought up on charges when Brandon Lee died, which was the right decision. This situation is no different.

 

[Optimus Prime]

not guns, but unsafe film set

wasn't john Landis charged when that helicopter crashed and a couple actors (one a child) were killed?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

not guns, but unsafe film set

wasn't john Landis charged when that helicopter crashed and a couple actors (one a child) were killed?

Three total. Two children and Vic Morrow. He and a few others were charged but all were acquitted. Landis deserved jail time over that incident far more than Baldwin does here.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I've read it again. I still disagree because we all know the answer to the question I posed above is no. No actor would have criminal charges brought against them in that situation even though their direct actions resulted in someone dying. Michael Massee was not brought up on charges when Brandon Lee died, which was the right decision. This situation is no different.

Nonsense. If anyone is handed a gun and told it's safe therefore they don't check it, and they kill someone, do they just walk? Of course not. Neither should an actor. A movie set is real life. An actor is just an ordinary citizen. If any actor didn't get that, they'll get it now that's for damn sure.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Nonsense. If anyone is handed a gun and told it's safe therefore they don't check it, and they kill someone, do they just walk? Of course not. Neither should an actor. A movie set is real life. An actor is just an ordinary citizen. If any actor didn't get that, they'll get it now that's for damn sure.

Does this same view hold in the situation where an actor accidentally kills someone because some sort of stunt rigging goes wrong? They were told it was safe, but it failed. Do you charge the actor with a crime?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Does this same view hold in the situation where an actor accidentally kills someone because some sort of stunt rigging goes wrong? They were told it was safe, but it failed. Do you charge the actor with a crime?

This wasn't stunt rigging, or a car, or anything else. This was a firearm with rounds in it.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

This wasn't stunt rigging, or a car, or anything else. This was a firearm with rounds in it.

If it's on a movie set and poses danger, there are safety protocols. If a stunt coordinator fails to inspect everything related to a stunt and the lead actor kills someone because of an unchecked piece of equipment, should the actor be charged with a crime?

 

[DaveXA]

If it's on a movie set and poses danger, there are safety protocols. If a stunt coordinator fails to inspect everything related to a stunt and the lead actor kills someone because of an unchecked piece of equipment, should the actor be charged with a crime?

No...but somehow because it's a gun it should be treated differently. I don't agree with charging an actor for that. The larger responsibility lies with the armorer and directors. Live ammo or weapons should never make it onto a set to begin with.