Now is not the time to talk about gun control (2 Viewers)

[brandon]

T&P

Redirect Notice

 

[MT15]

It’s all performative. They do not care about our kids being killed.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

If that is true, that they did see him and engaged him and still he enter the school and had time to do what he did. Then the good guys with the guns were craven cowards.

Craven cowards wearing guns and badges. Ugly,,, Ugly,, giant bags of mostly water.

You may be right about this. They don't seem to be as forthcoming as you'd like on some of the particulars surrounding what happened when he entered the school and how long it took them to finally engage him.

 

[coldseat]

Soooooo much THIS!

...

The problem is them, over there; it’s their fault that the kids keep getting killed.

Wrong. The problem is you.

Way back in 2008, then-Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) was castigated for saying that some Americans “cling to guns,” and for suggesting that this was unreasonable or unhealthy. The evidence — which is to say the pileup of bodies year after year — suggests he was correct.

But other politicians, seeing the backlash, learned what not to say. They learned not to point fingers, because they knew that they, too, would be accused of hating freedom, loving tyranny, overreaching in pursuit of control. They understood that they would be shouted down and then perhaps voted out.
They learned not to say the obvious: These mass shootings aren’t acts of God. The status quo is bad. Our lack of action on guns is killing people, and someone is to blame.

But who?

You. It’s your fault.

You, the gun-obsessed minority who lord over our politics and prevent change from being made. You, who mumble “thoughts and prayers” but balk at action.

You, the constitutional absolutist who believes that “the right to bear arms” — written in the late 1700s, when a state-of-the-art weapon was the flintlock musket — should be expanded to include modern-day, high-capacity automatic rifles, at the cost of children’s lives.

You, the “shooting hobbyist” or “gun enthusiast” who advocates against gun control because you think anything that makes your weekend amusement even the slightest bit more difficult to participate in is not to be borne.

You, the performative patriot who believes that background checks, age limitations, training requirements — any reasonable regulations that could help keep people safe — are insufferable limitations on your freedom.

You, the sophist who says “guns don’t kill people, people kill people,” as if those people aren’t killing others using guns, as if it isn’t obvious that the havoc they wreak would be much reduced had they not been given easy access to weapons of mass murder.

You, the pundit who sneers that your opponents “don’t want a solution” and then refuses to provide your own, preferring to use a tragedy to build your brand.

You, who would rather forget about the children murdered and the families broken, because if we thought about them too much you’d feel bad and might have to give something up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/26/uvalde-mass-shooting-inaction-on-guns-to-blame/

 

[the annoying thing]

Mental illness, racism, terrorism, religion, workplace violence, school bullying.

There are many reasons for mass shootings, but the common denominator is the gun.

We’ve got more guns than people.

If only we could convince people that guns were just as dangerous as illegal immigrants.

The common denominator that really is the issue is crazy people. No gun picks it self up and loads its self aims and shoots . that takes a person.

 

[coldseat]

The common denominator that really is the issue is crazy people. No gun picks it self up and loads its self aims and shoots . that takes a person.

And yet, no crazy person in any other country walks to the corner and buys 2 assault rifle and 300 rounds of ammunitions over a weekend to enter a school and take out a bunch of children on a whim. So maybe our lack gun laws and culture have something to do with it since we're literally the only country in the world with this epidemic. Somehow, everybody else has figured out solutions but we can't.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The common denominator that really is the issue is crazy people. No gun picks it self up and loads its self aims and shoots . that takes a person.

a person with a gun

 

[SystemShock]

I can see them using an M4 today but an A.R. 15 is designed to rip human flesh apart unless they’re hanging dummies out in this range I don’t see the need for an A.R. 15.

The M4 is the military version of the AR-15. That is one of the reasons why it is so popular, the M4 (and its variants) being the standard weapon of the U.S. armed forces. It isn't designed to rip human flesh apart anymore than any other rifle, being an MCX, AUG, ACR, UZI, etc. which all can shoot the same 5.56 round as the AR-15 clones.

I am no gun expert by any means, but the "demonizing" of AR-15's is misguided. It just happens to be the most popular rifle in the U.S. because the U.S. armed forces use it, there are a gazillion parts you can get for them to personalize them, and are more readily available because they are so popular. But if you remove the AR-15 clones of the market, it doesn't mean someone who wants to shoot people can't get other rifles that would do as good a job, and the supply/demand for those will go up accordingly.

Don't get me wrong, though, I am not saying that we shouldn't do anything, but we need to be informed to take an effective course of action.

 

[SystemShock]

Did you watch the video? I agree with what he said. Let’s take care of family. Decisions about change should be well thought out and not emotional. That’s how you end up with dumb laws that are not enforceable. He said he was happy to hav e that debate and discussion but not today. I agree with that stance.

Same line that we've heard after every shooting for decades... still debate nor discussion has happened. Just kick the can down the road, until the next school shooting, where parents have to be swabbed for DNA so the disfigured dead bodies of their children can be identified... but then that would not be time for the debate or discussion either.

 

[MT15]

You may be right about this. They don't seem to be as forthcoming as you'd like on some of the particulars surrounding what happened when he entered the school and how long it took them to finally engage him.

Yes, I’m seeing more questions today about the timeline. And that the resource officer(s) who “engaged” the killer actually never fired on him.

 

[SamAndreas]

You may be right about this. They don't seem to be as forthcoming as you'd like on some of the particulars surrounding what happened when he entered the school and how long it took them to finally engage him.

I saw a headline this morning with a secondary lead below the first, but didn't click because it was Fox. The secondary lead said that it took them an hour to storm into that classroom he was in and shoot the guy. If that was so then the kids in that room laid there bleeding and dying.

I guess it was a border guard who finally happened along who ended it, not the cops. I somehow don't think those cops ever did get their courage worked up.

 

[MT15]

The M4 is the military version of the AR-15. That is one of the reasons why it is so popular, the M4 (and its variants) being the standard weapon of the U.S. armed forces. It isn't designed to rip human flesh apart anymore than any other rifle, being an MCX, AUG, ACR, UZI, etc. which all can shoot the same 5.56 round as the AR-15 clones.

I am no gun expert by any means, but the "demonizing" of AR-15's is misguided. It just happens to be the most popular rifle in the U.S. because the U.S. armed forces use it, there are a gazillion parts you can get for them to personalize them, and are more readily available because they are so popular. But if you remove the AR-15 clones of the market, it doesn't mean someone who wants to shoot people can't get other rifles that would do as good a job, and the supply/demand for those will go up accordingly.

Don't get me wrong, though, I am not saying that we shouldn't do anything, but we need to be informed to take an effective course of action.

I think people just use AR-15 as a shortcut for any military-style rifle. I don’t think they mean to ban sales of AR-15s and only AR-15s.

 

[samiam5211]

The common denominator that really is the issue is crazy people. No gun picks it self up and loads its self aims and shoots . that takes a person.

Nope, it’s the gun.

Thanks for playing, see the producer for some parting gifts on your way out.

 

[SystemShock]

I think people just use AR-15 as a shortcut for any military-style rifle. I don’t think they mean to ban sales of AR-15s and only AR-15s.

The post I replied to tells a different story. I can point to countless examples. Heck, most people, even some people who have the guns, don't even know what AR stands for; and it is not assault rifle.

The term "military style rifle", what does that mean to you?

Can you tell what this is?

Again, I am not saying we shouldn't do anything about guns, but the only point I am making here is, that we need to be properly informed to know what we are asking for, what course of action needs to be taken.

 

[Optimus Prime]

MSN

And there's your 2 second sound bite that will be played in every GOP campaign ad in 22 and 24 and repeated on Fox a million times

 

[gummbo]

The M4 is the military version of the AR-15. That is one of the reasons why it is so popular, the M4 (and its variants) being the standard weapon of the U.S. armed forces. It isn't designed to rip human flesh apart anymore than any other rifle, being an MCX, AUG, ACR, UZI, etc. which all can shoot the same 5.56 round as the AR-15 clones.

I am no gun expert by any means, but the "demonizing" of AR-15's is misguided. It just happens to be the most popular rifle in the U.S. because the U.S. armed forces use it, there are a gazillion parts you can get for them to personalize them, and are more readily available because they are so popular. But if you remove the AR-15 clones of the market, it doesn't mean someone who wants to shoot people can't get other rifles that would do as good a job, and the supply/demand for those will go up accordingly.

Don't get me wrong, though, I am not saying that we shouldn't do anything, but we need to be informed to take an effective course of action.

And yet the parents have to take DNA test to identify their children, I doubt this kind of damage could’ve been done with the 22

 

[coldseat]

The M4 is the military version of the AR-15. That is one of the reasons why it is so popular, the M4 (and its variants) being the standard weapon of the U.S. armed forces. It isn't designed to rip human flesh apart anymore than any other rifle, being an MCX, AUG, ACR, UZI, etc. which all can shoot the same 5.56 round as the AR-15 clones.

I am no gun expert by any means, but the "demonizing" of AR-15's is misguided. It just happens to be the most popular rifle in the U.S. because the U.S. armed forces use it, there are a gazillion parts you can get for them to personalize them, and are more readily available because they are so popular. But if you remove the AR-15 clones of the market, it doesn't mean someone who wants to shoot people can't get other rifles that would do as good a job, and the supply/demand for those will go up accordingly.

Don't get me wrong, though, I am not saying that we shouldn't do anything, but we need to be informed to take an effective course of action.

IDK. I think we need to get past this idea that there is some perfect gun law that's going to perfectly target only the weapons that these mass shooters are using. What we need to do now is to pass gun laws to slow the trend down. Even if those gun laws aren't perfect and have some ambiguity by using terms like "assault riffle" in them (like the recent CRT and LGBTQ laws that may Republican states have passed). We also need laws that limit the potential lethality of weapons, especially as it concerns mass causality incidents. Specifics can be worked out in court or in successive legislations.

The point right now is that we need a change of the status quo and our gun culture. The needle needs to be moved to take this issue off the 3rd rail and force legislators to start dealing with and addressing this issue instead of offering empty platitudes.

We also need massive public awareness campaigns talking about the dangers of owning guns and how unsafe they are in your home, (even when a person is a legal gun owner). We need universal background checks, effective red flag laws, and gun registration laws. We need to study gun violence as a public health issue. We need a system to monitor when people are buying a lot of guns and rounds in a condensed period of time, body armor, etc, so that it triggers some review/intervention by local law enforcement. They need to at least ask question and maybe review that persons social media posting to determine if they're an immediate danger to their local community.

There's a lot we need to do, but finding the perfect gun law isn't some panacea.

 

[MT15]

MSN

And there's your 2 second sound bite that will be played in every GOP campaign ad in 22 and 24 and repeated on Fox a million times

However - It’s true - I really don’t think we should dumb down our discussion of the Constitution because the R base consists of people who don’t know anything about the Constitution. It needs to be explained, over and over, and politicians who know better need to be held accountable for their pandering to the base.

 

[MT15]

The post I replied to tells a different story. I can point to countless examples. Heck, most people, even some people who have the guns, don't even know what AR stands for; and it is not assault rifle.

The term "military style rifle", what does that mean to you?

Can you tell what this is?

Again, I am not saying we shouldn't do anything about guns, but the only point I am making here is, that we need to be properly informed to know what we are asking for, what course of action needs to be taken.

I don’t know much about guns, but that doesn’t look like a rifle to me.

I agree with the idea that we shouldn’t be bogged down in minutiae at this point. The more time goes by the more chance that inertia sets in and nothing gets done.

We can fix problems as they arise.

But we, IMO, do need to seize this opportunity - we have proof that armed officers present at the schools do not make any difference. This guy had zero reason to have failed a background check, it’s doubtful a red flag law would have got him, the only thing that would have helped in this case is a law about selling assault rifles either to someone his age, or altogether.