Now is not the time to talk about gun control (1 Viewer)

[brandon]

T&P

Redirect Notice

 

[SamAndreas]

Maybe this new Pro Life supreme court can take their pro life views to overturn precedent on gun control.

Not the indirect path I had in mind but maybe it would work. If they decided to do that, that is.

 

[coldseat]

This is a lie, a damned lie:

Even when he tries, he comes of so fake and disingenuous. I can't stand that creep.

And just to be clear, we don't have "a lot of time" to examine anything, the next massacre is just days away, if not today. It's time to act and change our gun laws.

I'm over the 2nd Amendment, it needs to be scrapped for something more sensible. It's just brought with it to much carnage and violence with no end in sight with the way it's being interpreted by our courts today and with the gun lobby behind it. It was in ill conceived amendment when it was first introduced and it's even more so today with the way it's interpreted by our Supreme Court.

 

[MT15]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with the 2nd Amendment - it’s the interpretation by these radical Justices and radical Republicans. They are quite willing to tolerate the regular slaughter of innocent citizens daily (DAILY) to appease the gun manufacturers and the totally corrupt NRA.

There is no realistic way to repeal or change the 2nd Amendment anyway, better to change the lawmakers who have sold out public safety for money. They all need to be voted out.

 

[samiam5211]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with the 2nd Amendment - it’s the interpretation by these radical Justices and radical Republicans. They are quite willing to tolerate the regular slaughter of innocent citizens daily (DAILY) to appease the gun manufacturers and the totally corrupt NRA.

There is no realistic way to repeal or change the 2nd Amendment anyway, better to change the lawmakers who have sold out public safety for money. They all need to be voted out.

Yea, we are at a point where any substantive amendment to the constitution isn't happening without violence.

 

[SystemShock]

The video games, or media causes violence has been debunked.

May not be a cause, but it is certainly a symptom.

If you want to find another factor other then the wide availability of guns. A good starting point would be finding how does America differ from other first world countries with a low amount of mass shootings?

Their societies/cultures aren't inherently violent and do not worship guns/military.

 

[coldseat]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with the 2nd Amendment - it’s the interpretation by these radical Justices and radical Republicans. They are quite willing to tolerate the regular slaughter of innocent citizens daily (DAILY) to appease the gun manufacturers and the totally corrupt NRA.

There is no realistic way to repeal or change the 2nd Amendment anyway, better to change the lawmakers who have sold out public safety for money. They all need to be voted out.

We may not be able to change it, but I still believe the 2nd Amendment is antiquated and causing a lot more harm than any potential good. Both in how it was written and how it's interpreted today by SC and conservatives. Right now, it really is responsible for the carnage we're seeing. No other modernized society is having the problems with mass murder that we are. The only difference is the 2nd Amendment and how it is interpreted/enforced.

 

[Semper]

I sold all of my AR 15’s after Sandy Hook. It wasn’t that I was afraid that mine would harm someone, I just realized I didn’t need them. I did not hunt with them, I shot them because they were fun to shoot, that’s it. I still have rifles, shotguns and handguns. My life hasn’t changed other than saving a few bucks at the range on ammo. I am a member of the NRA but only because O need their certifications to continue teaching firearm safety classes. On one hand I am donating money to an organization I don’t care for, but I am also using that donation so I can teach safety and responsibility to new gun owners. I consider it a wash. So does my 4”60 bucks every few years help the NRA more than what I can teach a few hundred people a year?

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

This shooter turns 18 and immediately purches 2 AR15s, 300 rounds of ammunition, plus I would assume several 10, 20, or 30 round magazines. If that isn't a red flag I don't know what is?

Edited to add: Buying 2 rifles and 300 rounds of ammunition should be OK and it would be OK if we hadn't allowed that kind of potential threat to become the reality it's become so many times. If the 2A/NRA crowd had used their heads about all this their firearms wouldn't be threatened.

 

[Semper]

I don’t understand why we are not enforcing the current laws on the books. Enforce the current laws and make them more strict. If someone kills someone with a gun and it is verifiable such as witnesses camera etc he dies. Firing squad wick and efficient. If no direct proof like video the life in federal prison hard labor, no parole. If a gun was used but no one was harmed then a minimum sentence that includes hard labor. I don’t care if it’s just making big rocks into smaller rocks with a sledge hammer. Make it harsh. Instead we allow killers to go to prison and get out after a few years. Makes zero sense to me.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

This shooter turns 18 and immediately purches 2 AR15s, 300 rounds of amunition, plus I would assume several 10, 20, or 30 round magazines. If that isn't a red flag I don't know what is?

In Texas, it's just someone exercising their 2A rights...

 

[Semper]

I am also more for required annual training, insurance etc. currently if you own a hunting license the DNR is allowed to enter your home without a warrant. Do the same with guns. You should be able to prove that your firearms are secure and only accessible to other approved adults. I am a conservative and a gun owner.

 

[Semper]

In Texas, it's just someone exercising their 2A rights...

In the vast majority of states you mean?

 

[MT15]

I sold all of my AR 15’s after Sandy Hook. It wasn’t that I was afraid that mine would harm someone, I just realized I didn’t need them. I did not hunt with them, I shot them because they were fun to shoot, that’s it. I still have rifles, shotguns and handguns. My life hasn’t changed other than saving a few bucks at the range on ammo. I am a member of the NRA but only because O need their certifications to continue teaching firearm safety classes. On one hand I am donating money to an organization I don’t care for, but I am also using that donation so I can teach safety and responsibility to new gun owners. I consider it a wash. So does my 4”60 bucks every few years help the NRA more than what I can teach a few hundred people a year?

Semper, this situation just makes my heart ache. I don’t see any way to stop this carnage without getting rid of the types of weapons that were designed to kill the maximum number of people in the shortest possible time. The little kids’ bodies were torn apart to the point they needed to swab the parents’ DNA for positive ID. I read this morning that police forensic specialists who worked Sandy Hook have never been the same after seeing what they saw. These guns, as I understand it, have such a high muzzle velocity that they tear people apart.

How do we stop this? We obviously cannot red flag these guys. We can’t ask police to stop them soon enough on the scene to prevent horrific loss of life. I don’t want to ask teachers to try to stop them with guns-they have enough to do, they would have to secure the gun safely in the classroom, and really how much time would they have to get it and use it? A handgun against an AR-15?

I’m open to suggestions. You’re very knowledgeable, what do you think?

 

[Lapaz]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with the 2nd Amendment - it’s the interpretation by these radical Justices and radical Republicans. They are quite willing to tolerate the regular slaughter of innocent citizens daily (DAILY) to appease the gun manufacturers and the totally corrupt NRA.

There is no realistic way to repeal or change the 2nd Amendment anyway, better to change the lawmakers who have sold out public safety for money. They all need to be voted out.

There is something wrong with the 2nd amendment, because the text of the amendment is poor. Its leading phrases have to be interpreted, rather than being explicit. This is the text: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Does it mean that a well regulated militia shall not be infringed (regardless of whether it makes the state more secure)? Does it mean that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (because people are needed with arms to form a be militia)?

If the meaning of the amendment is the former, then this would be a better version: "A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, therefore the right of the people to keep and bears arms in the service of that militia shall not be infringed."

If the meaning of the amendment is the latter, then this would be a better version: "An armed population is needed to form a militia, and a Militia is necessary for the security of a free State, therefore the individual's right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "

 

[MT15]

Semper - just saw one of your posts - I agree we do not enforce the laws on the books for repeat offenders. I would also add - if you threaten your domestic partner, your guns get confiscated. So many people are killed by their domestic partners and there are always warning signs.

All that said - these mass shooters very often have no criminal record, like this one. So enforcing repeat offender laws wouldn’t have stopped this one, although it couldn’t hurt for all the daily shootings.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

In Texas, it's just someone exercising their 2A rights...

I understand, buying 2 rifles and 300 rounds of ammunition should be OK and it would be OK if we hadn't allowed that kind of potential threat to become the reality it's become so many times. If the 2A/NRA crowd had used their heads about all this their firearms wouldn't be threatened.

I'm a lifetime member of the NRA, and I've owned an AR15, but I don't shy away from the reality we're dealing with and what should be done about it. The NRA was a good organization until it became political in the 80s.

 

[MT15]

There is something wrong with the 2nd amendment, because the text of the amendment is poor. Its leading phrases have to be interpreted, rather than being explicit. This is the text: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Does it mean that a well regulated militia shall not be infringed (regardless of whether it makes the state more secure)? Does it mean that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed (because people are needed with arms to form a be militia)?

If the meaning of the amendment is the former, then this would be a better version: "A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, therefore the right of the people to keep and bears arms in the service of that militia shall not be infringed."

If the meaning of the amendment is the latter, then this would be a better version: "An armed population is needed to form a militia, and a Militia is necessary for the security of a free State, therefore the individual's right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "

All of that is fine, but we are stuck because we won’t be able to change it.

 

[Semper]

Semper, this situation just makes my heart ache. I don’t see any way to stop this carnage without getting rid of the types of weapons that were designed to kill the maximum number of people in the shortest possible time. The little kids’ bodies were torn apart to the point they needed to swab the parents’ DNA for positive ID. I read this morning that police forensic specialists who worked Sandy Hook have never been the same after seeing what they saw. These guns, as I understand it, have such a high muzzle velocity that they tear people apart.

How do we stop this? We obviously cannot red flag these guys. We can’t ask police to stop them soon enough on the scene to prevent horrific loss of life. I don’t want to ask teachers to try to stop them with guns-they have enough to do, they would have to secure the gun safely in the classroom, and really how much time would they have to get it and use it? A handgun against an AR-15?

I’m open to suggestions. You’re very knowledgeable, what do you think?

I am fine with no longer manufacturing an AR style rifle. I don’t know how it’s done as far as banning them though. Magazine limits are fine with me as well. 5 rounds mags work just fine. You know people can build their own by purchasing kits. When Obama was running for President lowers we’re impossible to find. Same with Hillary. People bought them “just in case” they were banned. These lowers can be turned into rifles or handguns. How do you recover them? How do you compensate people who have spent so much money? I personally think a 5 round mag should be the limit. People can still hunt with them but just have to change mags more often. For the record most gun owners would consider me a traitor for suggesting this. When people tell me it’s to defend against a tyranny I just shake my head. What is a little .223 round going to do when they land an Apache in your front yard and level your home?