Language (1 Viewer)

[Farb]

In another thread, it was brought to my attention that we am not allowed to use certain centuries old definitions because they have been 'updated'. That discussion was about the definition of 'racism'. I asked who controls the 'words' and who exactly gets to update the meaning of those commonly used words.

I saw this yesterday and thought this would be a discussion to attempt to have.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-terms-like-birthing-parents-human-milk.html

https://news.yahoo.com/democrats-replace-women-birthing-people-033500864.html

IMO this is a move to be 'inclusive' to trans people at the sake of women (we are discussing birthing humans after all).

The recent call to change the word for a person who comes into a country illegally from Alien to undocumented. Why? What possible purpose does it serve?

Even 'white supremacy' doesn't mean 'white supremacy'.

I am sure we are all somewhat familiar with Orwell and 1984. So i thought this would be a good place to post and discuss the language that we are seeing right in front of us. If we can't even share a language with common definitions, how do we expect to share a government?

 

[MT15]

Who said anything about requiring anything? Are you so fragile that you take “push back” against a lie as the same thing as outlawing speech?

Nobody is saying you are required to quit calling democrats socialists. But when you do people will point out that it’s false.

The victimization is simply stunning.

 

[JLL]

Directly from the DSA website;

What is Democratic Socialism?​

Capitalism is a system designed by the owning class to exploit the rest of us for their own profit. We must replace it with democratic socialism, a system where ordinary people have a real voice in our workplaces, neighborhoods, and society.

We believe there are many avenues that feed into the democratic road to socialism. Our vision pushes further than historic social democracy and leaves behind authoritarian visions of socialism in the dustbin of history.

We want a democracy that creates space for us all to flourish not just survive and answers the fundamental questions of our lives with the input of all. We want to collectively own the key economic drivers that dominate our lives, such as energy production and transportation. We want the multiracial working class united in solidarity instead of divided by fear. We want to win “radical” reforms like single-payer Medicare for All, defunding the police/refunding communities, the Green New Deal, and more as a transition to a freer, more just life.



They are socialists, and seems to me that their plan to achieve that goal is coming to fruition. Get a foot in the door through the democratic process, then open the door to a more open socialist design.

 

[SaintForLife]

So, she is a social democrat, not a Socialist. This is a cynical ploy by Republicans to call all democrats in the US Socialists when none of them are.

Socialists do not believe in private ownership of companies. That’s the defining characteristic.

I do not believe any democrats have called for seizing the means of production, they are not Socialists.

I think words matter, and people need to push back against this cynical, deliberate smear by republicans.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a Democratic Socialists of America member. Here’s what that means.

www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org

TALKING SOCIALISM | Catching up with AOC - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Bronx Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, best known as AOC, is DSA’s foremost “superstar.” We spoke by Zoom on January 26.

www.dsausa.org

 

[Paul]

Someone please take the shovel off his hands.

When you attempt sarcasm and jokes, and they fall horribly flat, the problem is rarely with the audience.

That 'joke' is like being told that '88' is used by white supremacists and going, "Ooooh, I didn't know PIANOS were NAZIS!"

OK, so you guys do not like sarcasm. Got it

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a Democratic Socialists of America member. Here’s what that means.

www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org

TALKING SOCIALISM | Catching up with AOC - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Bronx Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, best known as AOC, is DSA’s foremost “superstar.” We spoke by Zoom on January 26.

www.dsausa.org

AOC is just a social justice woman, nothing else. She is wired for social justice! I love her personality and demeanor and she is a very attractive lady. However, I do not think AOC can tell the difference between Adam Smith and Karl Marx.

America needs to copy the Nordic model: Capitalism to pay for the social programs.

 

[RobF]

OK, so you guys do not like sarcasm. Got it

If someone doesn't like a plate of mouldy cheese, they doesn't mean they don't like cheese. Try better sarcasm.

However, I do not think AOC can tell the difference between Adam Smith and Karl Marx.

You think that? Based on what? My guess is irrational prejudice, but feel free to offer an alternative.

Personally, I suspect that difference may have come up in her degree in International Relations and Economics.

 

[MT15]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a Democratic Socialists of America member. Here’s what that means.

www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org

TALKING SOCIALISM | Catching up with AOC - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Bronx Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, best known as AOC, is DSA’s foremost “superstar.” We spoke by Zoom on January 26.

www.dsausa.org

I assume you posted these to prove my point?

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Do we have to prove it when we call someone is a Nazi now? I am old enough to remember we had that word flung around like a mardi gras beads for 4 years. There was no proof, at all mind you, just media talking heads screaming in their bubble.

But now we are required to show proof of those claims when it is against Dems in power? LOL. It is good to be king

Yes. When you call someone a Nazi you must prove it. But calling Trump one was no different than those calling Obama a terrorist Muslim. so there's that.. And don't act like the right didn't call Obama a Nazi the whole time he was in office. But yes, both sides are idiots for that...

 

[MT15]

Democratic Socialists will not seize the means of production like actual socialists. They specifically say on their website that they do not seek to end capitalism.

AOC may be one of a very few members of the Democratic Party that even go as far as she does.

Elizabeth Warren is an avowed capitalist. Just ask her, I have seen her say it.

The point remains that the Republicans use the word Socialist as a smear of all Democrats and they know it’s false.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Democratic Socialists will not seize the means of production like actual socialists. They specifically say on their website that they do not seek to end capitalism.

AOC may be one of a very few members of the Democratic Party that even go as far as she does.

Elizabeth Warren is an avowed capitalist. Just ask her, I have seen her say it.

The point remains that the Republicans use the word Socialist as a smear of all Democrats and they know it’s false.

And their supporters swallow it Hook, line and sinker.....
Majority of the conservatives love "socialism" when they can take advantage of the Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment and food stamps, the list goes on....

 

[SaintForLife]

Democratic Socialists will not seize the means of production like actual socialists. They specifically say on their website that they do not seek to end capitalism.

AOC may be one of a very few members of the Democratic Party that even go as far as she does.

Elizabeth Warren is an avowed capitalist. Just ask her, I have seen her say it.

The point remains that the Republicans use the word Socialist as a smear of all Democrats and they know it’s false.

AOC isn’t a Socialist!

 

[Paul]

If someone doesn't like a plate of mouldy cheese, they doesn't mean they don't like cheese. Try better sarcasm.

Sarcasm is not supposed to be tasty. You miss the point! Sarcasm is supposed to make you uncomfortable with the views that you have acquired in your echo chamber. It messes up your confirmation bias.

You think that? Based on what? My guess is irrational prejudice, but feel free to offer an alternative.

Personally, I suspect that difference may have come up in her degree in International Relations and Economics.

Hopefully AOC study Adam Smith and Marx, however, she is no expert. Furthermore, your appellation to authority fallacy is noted.

You do not understand sarcasm.

 

[MT15]

AOC isn’t a Socialist!

She’s not. It doesn’t matter how many times you repeat a lie it will not be true.

 

[dtc]

Directly from the DSA website;

What is Democratic Socialism?​

Capitalism is a system designed by the owning class to exploit the rest of us for their own profit. We must replace it with democratic socialism, a system where ordinary people have a real voice in our workplaces, neighborhoods, and society.

We believe there are many avenues that feed into the democratic road to socialism. Our vision pushes further than historic social democracy and leaves behind authoritarian visions of socialism in the dustbin of history.

We want a democracy that creates space for us all to flourish not just survive and answers the fundamental questions of our lives with the input of all. We want to collectively own the key economic drivers that dominate our lives, such as energy production and transportation. We want the multiracial working class united in solidarity instead of divided by fear. We want to win “radical” reforms like single-payer Medicare for All, defunding the police/refunding communities, the Green New Deal, and more as a transition to a freer, more just life.



They are socialists, and seems to me that their plan to achieve that goal is coming to fruition. Get a foot in the door through the democratic process, then open the door to a more open socialist design.

Did you read it critically? I ask because nowhere does it say it wants to collectively own anything other than "the key economic drivers that dominate our lives, such as energy production and transportation."

Mass transit and energy are natural monopolies. They're not talking about pizza places and shoe stores or contractors and doctors offices. And, words matter.

 

[RobF]

Sarcasm is not supposed to be tasty. You miss the point! Sarcasm is supposed to make you uncomfortable with the views that you have acquired in your echo chamber. It messes up your confirmation bias.

Hopefully AOC study Adam Smith and Marx, however, she is no expert. Furthermore, your appellation to authority fallacy is noted.

You do not understand sarcasm.

I spent a chunk of time yesterday catching up on the last few weeks of the forum, having been away from it for a bit.

Much of that content was from you, and people responding to you, all too often having to point out your constant moving of goalposts, and lack of understanding of the terms you're using.

As here. You didn't say "I don't think AOC is an expert in Smith and Marx." You said you thought that she can't "tell the difference between Adam Smith and Karl Marx."

Also, you don't know what an "appellation to authority fallacy" is. That's where someone says something like, "Bob, who is an expert, says X, therefore X." That can be a fallacy.

It is not where someone says, "Bob has a degree in Economics, so he probably knows who Karl Marx and Adam Smith are." That's logical.

As for sarcasm, with the greatest of respect, you have to understand something yourself before you can tell someone else that they don't.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Sarcasm is not supposed to be tasty. You miss the point! Sarcasm is supposed to make you uncomfortable with the views that you have acquired in your echo chamber. It messes up your confirmation bias.

Hopefully AOC study Adam Smith and Marx, however, she is no expert. Furthermore, your appellation to authority fallacy is noted.

You do not understand sarcasm.

You are confusing sarcasm and satire. Sarcasm is meant to mock for the sake of humor. Satire is meant to criticize views in an effort to promote social improvement.

 

[Paul]

You are confusing sarcasm and satire. Sarcasm is meant to mock for the sake of humor. Satire is meant to criticize views in an effort to promote social improvement.

When I said AOC was a NAZI it was clearly sarcasm. I had no intention to promote social improvement.
Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Paul]

I spent a chunk of time yesterday catching up on the last few weeks of the forum, having been away from it for a bit.

Much of that content was from you, and people responding to you, all too often having to point out your constant moving of goalposts, and lack of understanding of the terms you're using.

As here. You didn't say "I don't think AOC is an expert in Smith and Marx." You said you thought that she can't "tell the difference between Adam Smith and Karl Marx."

Also, you don't know what an "appellation to authority fallacy" is. That's where someone says something like, "Bob, who is an expert, says X, therefore X." That can be a fallacy.

It is not where someone says, "Bob has a degree in Economics, so he probably knows who Karl Marx and Adam Smith are." That's logical.

As for sarcasm, with the greatest of respect, you have to understand something yourself before you can tell someone else that they don't.

You have a doctorate in sarcasm and yet you do not get sarcasm.
Do you realize we are posting about nothing?

Can describe the difference between Adam Smith and Karl Marx in one sentence?

 

[brandon]

We want to collectively own the key economic drivers that dominate our lives, such as energy production and transportation.

So…we already own public transportation. It’s taxpayer funded. As are all public roads and highways.

Also, where I live, electricity is a co-op. So I already own that, too.

So yea, welcome to Stalingrad, comrade.