Israel vs Hamas (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[DaveXA]

The support for Bibi has cratered in Israel. Most people blame him for not heeding warnings that Hamas was preparing a military-style attack. Once the war is over, I am hoping he is finished there and ends up in jail where he belongs.

OTOH, we don’t have a whole lot of room to talk since we elected Trump. He’s worse than Bibi.

Hell, we might elect him again. We're living in crazy town now.

 

[DaveXA]

The support for Bibi has cratered in Israel. Most people blame him for not heeding warnings that Hamas was preparing a military-style attack. Once the war is over, I am hoping he is finished there and ends up in jail where he belongs.

OTOH, we don’t have a whole lot of room to talk since we elected Trump. He’s worse than Bibi.

And fwiw, I actually hope enough pressure is put on Bibi to step down considering the intelligence failures and allowing the attack to happen in the first place. If he knew this was gonna happen ahead of time, he's gotta go...now...not after the war.

 

[MT15]

so much disinformation. We really need to get better at ignoring confirmation bias and figuring out fact from fiction. Also ironic that Fox is outraged about it….

 

[UriUT]

White House: Israel's call to move Gaza civilians is "a tall order"

Israel's call for more than 1 million civilians in northern Gaza to move within 24 hours is going to be a "tall order," although the United States was not second-guessing the decision, White House national security spokesman John Kirby said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

Kirby said U.S. officials are working with Israel and Egypt on getting safe passage for civilians living in Gaza, home to 2.3 million people in one of the most crowded places on Earth.

"Obviously, we don't want to see any civilians hurt," he said later on CNN. "We do support safe passage out of Gaza, and certainly that includes the ability for people to move safely inside Gaza.

"These Palestinian people, they're victims, too. They didn't ask for this. They didn't invite Hamas in and say, you know, 'Go hit Israel.'"

Moving 1 million people from north Gaza in 24 hrs is a "tall order". I believe idf extended that window.

Also having innocents moved from the combat zone is beneficial to the idf beyond saving innocent lives. Isolating combatants makes combat more direct for Israeli soldiers. But razing and bombings structure are sniper cover.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Look #######, don't tell me I'm accepting of war crimes. I don't like it. Got it?

I was out of line with my closing sentence which was just a swipe at you.. I made the dig at you over my frustration with the attitude most of the world is showing toward Israel's ongoing human rights violations and their current war crimes. I deleted it from my post out of regret, just before seeing your reply.

I apologize.

 

[DaveXA]

White House: Israel's call to move Gaza civilians is "a tall order"

Israel's call for more than 1 million civilians in northern Gaza to move within 24 hours is going to be a "tall order," although the United States was not second-guessing the decision, White House national security spokesman John Kirby said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

Moving 1 million people from north Gaza in 24 hrs is a "tall order". I believe idf extended that window.

Also having innocents moved from the combat zone is beneficial to the idf beyond saving innocent lives. Isolating combatants makes combat more direct for Israeli soldiers. But razing and bombings structure are sniper cover.

Yeah, 24 hours is hardly enough time. But I suspect they at least want to get people moving. Once they see a large number of people moving south, they can push back the timetable enough for them to get out of harm's way.

 

[UriUT]

Analysis: Why did Hamas attack now and what is next?

A number of factors led to Hamas’s operation in southern Israel.

www.aljazeera.com

I still believe they were foolish to begin this, if I'm critically to view this. It is counter-productive, and sets themselves to be in the wrong.

But this is supposedly their reasoning. I gather the desperation as soon as it happened. Still, very idiotic.

Why did Hamas attack now?​

First, the policies of the far-right Israeli government enabling settler violence in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem led to a sense of desperation among Palestinians and growing demands for a reaction. At the same time, the rising tensions in the West Bank caused by these policies necessitated the shift of Israeli forces away from the south and into the north to guard the settlements.

Second, the Hamas leadership felt compelled to act due to the acceleration of Arab-Israeli normalisation.

Third, Hamas was emboldened after it managed to repair its ties with Iran. In recent years, the movement had to reconsider the political position it assumed in the wake of the Arab Spring in 2011, in opposition to Iran and its ally, the Syrian regime.

 

[LA - L.A.]

You have no idea how I feel about the current Israeli government. I haven't said word one about it.

Honestly, it very much seems like you think Israel's current actions are justified. You seem to very much support what Israel is currently doing. You say you don't accept war crimes, but Israel is in fact committing unnecessary war crimes and they have been committing unnecessary and extreme human rights violations against all Palestinians everywhere, not just Gaza.

How do you reconcile those opposing views you have?

You keep saying that Israel only wants to kill Hamas, that's showing you do believe and feel something about the Israeli government. That's you saying that you don't think the Israeli government is extreme and anti-Palestinian, which they empirically very much are.

 

[LA - L.A.]

You're gonna have to show your work because no one is saying what you're accusing of in this thread.

The work has already been shown in this thread and in the world press. If you're sitting at a poker table and you can't spot the fish, then you're the fish.

 

[LA - L.A.]

...this started because of actions Hamas did. An unconscionable act on thousands of unarmed people.

And Hamas' actions started because of what Israel did, unconscionable acts against millions of unarmed, powerless people.

When do we get off this murderous Merry Go Round?

 

[LA - L.A.]

And fwiw, I actually hope enough pressure is put on Bibi to step down considering the intelligence failures and allowing the attack to happen in the first place. If he knew this was gonna happen ahead of time, he's gotta go...now...not after the war.

If Bibi knew about this ahead of time, then he also killed and tortured all of the innocent Israelis, and the IDF should bomb him wherever he is regardless of who else bombing Bibi might kill.

 

[DaveXA]

And Hamas' actions started because of what Israel did, unconscionable acts against millions of unarmed, powerless people.

When do we get off this murderous Merry Go Round?

No idea. They've been going at this for centuries. It's not ending anytime soon.

 

[DaveXA]

If Bibi knew about this ahead of time, then he also killed and tortured all of the innocent Israelis, and the IDF should bomb him wherever he is regardless of who else bombing Bibi might kill.

I wouldn't be mad if they deposed him if he knew ahead of time. That's unconscionable.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Honestly, it very much seems like you think Israel's current actions are justified. You seem to very much support what Israel is currently doing. You say you don't accept war crimes, but Israel is in fact committing unnecessary war crimes and they have been committing unnecessary and extreme human rights violations against all Palestinians everywhere, not just Gaza.

How do you reconcile those opposing views you have?

You keep saying that Israel only wants to kill Hamas, that's showing you do believe and feel something about the Israeli government. That's you saying that you don't think the Israeli government is extreme and anti-Palestinian, which they empirically very much are.

Going after a terrorist organization whose only desire is to eliminate you isn't a war crime. The densely populated combat zone that this is playing out in will, and is, create/creating huge numbers of civilian casualties. Unfortunately, civilian casualties are common in combat zones. I started posting in this thread by asking the question, how long will the world allow Israel to fight a war in a theater that is going to cost so many civilian lives? My question still very much stands.

Do I understand Israel's position? Yes. Is it tragic for the people of Gaza and do I feel for them? Without question. It's probably the worst war that I've closely observed in that regard. It's horrific. But, it's where we're at. So, considering that's where we're at, what now?

 

[Lapaz]

And where do propose they put them in Israel? I don't really know the lay of the land there, but you gotta put 1.5-2 million+ people somewhere. I don't think Israel has the capacity or ability to move that many people. Egypt clearly can. They have the space and the US and others can provide all the temporary housing and logistics necessary so as to not burden Egypt. But they are a sovereign country and we would need their permission and some level of cooperation.

If there were a way for Israel to house them temporarily and they're willing to do it, we can help with the logistics and housing needed while Israel handles clearing out Gaza.

I mean, I'm open to ideas.

Millions of Syrians recently fled and were kept in camps. I know it would be a huge logistical effort, but that is worth the effort to avoid killing thousands of innocent people.

 

[DaveXA]

Millions of Syrians recently fled and were kept in camps. I know it would be a huge logistical effort, but that is worth the effort to avoid killing thousands of innocent people.

I agree. My question remains where would they go.

 

[zztop]

I had a sad thought today. Even if they had not deliberately cut off power and water etc, probably by the time they are done, the infrastructure will be mostly gone anyway. The result will be a humanitarian crisis either way

 

[J-DONK]

You keep saying that Israel only wants to kill Hamas, that's showing you do believe and feel something about the Israeli government. That's you saying that you don't think the Israeli government is extreme and anti-Palestinian, which they empirically very much are.

There are plenty of videos from this war, and the occupation before the war of Israel treating Palestinians worse then black people in Jim Crow. Israel is an apartheid state, and any real defense of them is gross.

If you want to put this into context, imagine a BLM terriorist organization attacking Southern whites during the post restoration era South.

There are no good guys in this war. It's really that simple.