Israel vs Hamas (1 Viewer)

[GrandAdmiral]

Looks like the fight is on with Israeli soldiers and civilians amongst the dead already. Question becomes, how long before we get dragged into this?

Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ after Hamas launches surprise attack, takes hostages | CNN

Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared that the country was “at war” on Saturday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a deadly barrage of rockets and sent gunmen into Israeli territory in a major escalation of the long running conflict between the two sides.

www.cnn.com

 

[MT15]

I’m betting that dollars to donuts that a member of the his committee had information well in advance, and so he hedged his bet.

Well, you can certainly buy into all sorts of conspiracy theories I suppose. But you have zero proof. I would rather deal in things that are real for the most part.

What you are alleging however is pretty implausible. What you are saying is that the members of this committee - not the chairman, not the gang of eight - but random committee members had advance knowledge of a devastatingly barbaric raid that killed over a thousand citizens of one of our closest allies and the US didn’t warn Israel about it. But whichever intelligence agency reported it to the House committee instead?

I think we need to reform MOC ability to trade stocks, but this kind of hooey just hurts the cause, IMO.

 

[MT15]

So much disinformation on Twitter these days. It’s just gone wild.

 

[el caliente]

Well, you can certainly buy into all sorts of conspiracy theories I suppose. But you have zero proof. I would rather deal in things that are real for the most part.

What you are alleging however is pretty implausible. What you are saying is that the members of this committee - not the chairman, not the gang of eight - but random committee members had advance knowledge of a devastatingly barbaric raid that killed over a thousand citizens of one of our closest allies and the US didn’t warn Israel about it. But whichever intelligence agency reported it to the House committee instead?

I think we need to reform MOC ability to trade stocks, but this kind of hooey just hurts the cause, IMO.

I’m not saying they had intel on exact day and time of the events, however you would be foolish to think they didn’t have better intel than Egypt which gave them an upper hand in what or when to invest. shirt like this happens all the time.

 

[MT15]

I’m not saying they had intel on exact day and time of the events, however you would be foolish to think they didn’t have better intel than Egypt which gave them an upper hand in what or when to invest. shirt like this happens all the time.

It’s fruitless to accuse people without proof. Like I said, I looked up Raytheon and the published opinion is that it is an undervalued stock - which was put out well before the attack. So if a stock is listed as a “buy” you really cannot just go around accusing people of insider trading without any proof, IMO.

I think this kind of rank speculation hurts the cause of reforming MOB stock trading rather than helps it. It makes it easy to dismiss the objections as fairy tales not based in reality.

 

[MT15]

To be clear, though, I’m not saying it wasn’t an insider trade, just that we have to have proof. Maybe another MOC doing a similar trade in a similar time frame. Maybe record of a classified briefing from an intelligence agency right before that trade. Anything. The trade itself is meaningless without further proof.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Yes. Someone that statement makes people feel that killing civilian's is just a side effect of what has to be done. Like it's a tornado going through there.

Israel is making a choice to drop over 6000 bombs in Gaza. Hamas has decided that civilians lives are less valuable than their own, and Israel is making that exact same choice. It is worth killing civilians if they can kill Hamas.

Again:

Killing civilians is a side effect of eliminating Hamas. Anyone thinking in Gaza should know that Hamas has to go and that it's Hamas's fault that Israel is preparing for a ground incursion to do that.

 

[samiam5211]

I already understood it wasn't a compelling, well-formed opinion.

I think your answer - at least the best I can come up with - is that Israel shouldn't have responded with military force at all. Once they did, I think the supply of food, water, and fuel was inevitably going to be disrupted and, having already asked you this, I'm not sure what the logistical challenges are now, in getting those supplies in, and how that can be accomplished. Do you know?

You seem to think that I must provide Israel with another option to be critical of their response.

I think the lives of the kids in Gaza are more valuable than the lives of Hamas.

Israel and Hamas both think the lives of Hamas militants is worth more than the lives of the children in Gaza. I don't care what they say, their actions are proving that they value the deaths of Hamas militants over Gazan children, because they have killed more children than militants. They have made the calculation that it is worth it.

 

[samiam5211]

Again:

Killing civilians is a side effect of eliminating Hamas. Anyone thinking in Gaza should know that Hamas has to go and that it's Hamas's fault that Israel is preparing for a ground incursion to do that.

Israel has decided that the lives of the civilians aren't worth as much as the death of Hamas militants.

They have reached the same conclusion that people rightfully accuse Hamas of making. The lives of the civilians are expendable. Far more civilians are being killed than Hamas. It isn't even close.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Israel has decided that the lives of the civilians aren't worth as much as the death of Hamas militants.

They have reached the same conclusion that people rightfully accuse Hamas of making. The lives of the civilians are expendable. Far more civilians are being killed than Hamas. It isn't even close.

No, Israel has decided that the only way to get to Hamas is militarily. Because of the way Gaza is, so densely populated, and the fact that Hamas hides among that dense population, this is the only way to do it militarily.

 

[Incumbent]

I don't care what they say, their actions are proving that they value the deaths of Hamas militants over Gazan children, because they have killed more children than militants.

This seems like it would either have to be speculation or based on information being provided by Hamas.

I don't say that to make light of any deaths. As soon as Hamas infiltrated Israel and started indiscriminately killing civilians - from babies and teens to the sick and the elderly - it was expected the retaliation would be bloody and fierce.

It's clear that Israel is determined to rid Gaza of Hamas. Wiping them out is something you said you agreed needed to happen so, yes, I am curious to know how you think that should have been undertaken, other than fighting them where they are, which is in Gaza.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

I think cutting off food, water and electricity to Gaza is a war crime.

Biden has given full support to Israel, and not suggested that they should not cut off food, water, and electricity. I think that makes him complicit.

If Biden is telling them to cut the water on behind the scenes, then he should be saying that in public.

Israel has enforced a complete siege to take away any and all control from Hamas.

 

[samiam5211]

No, Israel has decided that the only way to get to Hamas is militarily. Because of the way Gaza is, so densely populated, and the fact that Hamas hides among that dense population, this is the only way to do it militarily.

They have decided that the deaths of civilians is worth it. There is no denying that.

 

[samiam5211]

Israel has enforced a complete siege to take away any and all control from Hamas.

They have decided to punish everyone in Gaza, well over half of whom are kids, in order to get Hamas.

They decided that starving and bombing children was worth it if they can take out Hamas.

 

[samiam5211]

This seems like it would either have to be speculation or based on information being provided by Hamas.

I don't say that to make light of any deaths. As soon as Hamas infiltrated Israel and started indiscriminately killing civilians - from babies and teens to the sick and the elderly - it was expected the retaliation would be bloody and fierce.

It's clear that Israel is determined to rid Gaza of Hamas. Wiping them out is something you said you agreed needed to happen so, yes, I am curious to know how you think that should have been undertaken, other than fighting them where they are, which is in Gaza.

You can say it is speculation that Israel has killed more civilians with their 6000 air strikes, but it doesn't take very much thought to realize it is a reality.

 

[Incumbent]

You can say it is speculation that Israel has killed more civilians with their 6000 air strikes, but it doesn't take very much thought to realize it is a reality.

You said that more children have been killed than militants. That can be speculated on, it might very well be true, but it's not a known statement of fact. What I said was accurate.

Israel might be lying about their efforts to minimize civilian casualties, but that, too, is not a matter of established fact.

I now understand that in saying you believe Hamas should be wiped out, you were being rhetorical because either a.) you don't actually believe that or b.) you have no idea how that should be accomplished so it was just meaningless words you posted.

 

[samiam5211]

You said that more children have been killed than militants. That can be speculated on, it might very well be true, but it's not a known statement of fact. What I said was accurate.

Israel might be lying about their efforts to minimize civilian casualties, but that, too, is not a matter of established fact.

I now understand that in saying you believe Hamas should be wiped out, you were being rhetorical because either a.) you don't actually believe that or b.) you have no idea how that should be accomplished so it was just meaningless words you posted.

Like I said, it doesn't take much thought to realize that more children have been killed in the past week in Gaza than were killed in Israel last weekend.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

They have decided to punish everyone in Gaza, well over half of whom are kids, in order to get Hamas.

They decided that starving and bombing children was worth it if they can take out Hamas.

Is it hard to swallow? Yes.

No pun intended.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

They have decided to punish everyone in Gaza, well over half of whom are kids, in order to get Hamas.

They decided that starving and bombing children was worth it if they can take out Hamas.

And what step have the Gazans taken??? They have to do their part to protect their children and as much as I want to see their suffering end, they have to take measures into their own hand and if they choose to allow Hamas to keep them trapped in this circle then they are also complicit in what happens to their children next.