Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (8 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.

VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.

www.nytimes.com

Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

How to think about war in Ukraine

Start with the Ukrainians

snyder.substack.com

 

[MT15]

I think we even discussed in this thread that it may not be true. I did notice it was that bastion of truth the NY Post that was all over the story. Lol. About on a par with the stupid laptop.

The NY Post doesn’t do facts, just sensationalism.

 

[MT15]

If we hadn't destabilized Ukraine and used them as a proxy against Russia then I would be much more supportive of Ukraine against Russia.

Being the richest country in the world gives us the right to interfere in other countries? What about all of the people who are killed in the process, their homes destroyed, etc?

What about what it does to our troops who are involved? The troops who aren't killed are changed for life and have a big chance of committing suicide.

What are you even going on about? You are so totally messed up by the “sources” you use that you can’t even hear yourself. You should support Ukraine because they are a democracy fighting for their very life as a sovereign nation against an authoritarian butcher.

This war is totally on Russia. Nobody else. No matter how much your sources want to prop up Putin and tear down the US, they cannot change the facts.

 

[SamAndreas]

I'm pretty sure the BBC is right. There was no "Ghost of Kyiv".

In war illusions are necessary.

 

[DaveXA]

This isn't really news. It was never verified as true to begin with. The pilot who was rumored to be the "Ghost of Kyiv" was KIA in March. It was always considered more legend than anything else.

 

[DaveXA]

If we hadn't destabilized Ukraine and used them as a proxy against Russia then I would be much more supportive of Ukraine against Russia.

Being the richest country in the world gives us the right to interfere in other countries? What about all of the people who are killed in the process, their homes destroyed, etc?

What about what it does to our troops who are involved? The troops who aren't killed are changed for life and have a big chance of committing suicide.

When exactly did we destabilize Ukraine, much less use them as a proxy? That never actually happened.

 

[SaintForLife]

When exactly did we destabilize Ukraine, much less use them as a proxy? That never actually happened.

What You Should Really Know About Ukraine - FAIR

Media echoed the view that the US should have an active role in Ukrainian politics and enforce its perspective through military threats.

fair.org

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

In war illusions are necessary.

Pat Tillman?

The True Story Of Pat Tillman's Death — And The Cover-Up That Followed

His family had a feeling that they weren't getting the full truth — and they were sadly correct.

allthatsinteresting.com

Five O'clock Follies?

Five O'Clock Follies - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DaveXA]

What You Should Really Know About Ukraine - FAIR

Media echoed the view that the US should have an active role in Ukrainian politics and enforce its perspective through military threats.

fair.org

Lol, that's a shamefully pro-Russian article. Sounds like something Putin would write. There's nothing "Fair" about that site. It's a propaganda rag.

Fwiw, you didn't answer my question.

 

[MT15]

Lol, that's a shamefully pro-Russian article. Sounds like something Putin would write. There's nothing "Fair" about that site. It's a propaganda rag.

Fwiw, you didn't answer my question.

I doubt he will.

 

[MT15]

Pat Tillman?



Five O'clock Follies?

Can you see the difference between a little help fostering the legend of a hero performing well during the early days of a war where Ukraine desperately needed to keep morale high, and the coordinated cover-up of crimes? I can tell the difference.

It was fairly obvious that the “ghost of Kiev” was apocryphal, the figures of the kills varied rapidly and were never consistent. It was a good story, though, and there actually were heroic pilots who were defending the skies in Ukraine. It just wasn’t one guy with a catchy name.

Perspective is important. The right has lost all perspective. Let us not follow down that path.

 

[SaintForLife]

Lol, that's a shamefully pro-Russian article. Sounds like something Putin would write. There's nothing "Fair" about that site. It's a propaganda rag.

Fwiw, you didn't answer my question.

Please explain what's incorrect about that article and why FAIR is a propaganda rag? Be specific.

The article that you are trying to ignore answered your question. It's not my fault that you think that anything that isn't American propaganda is Russian Propaganda. You guys are so engrained to claim everything you don't believe is Russian propaganda that you ignore anything that goes against your world view.

 

[SaintForLife]

I doubt he will.

I doubt you guys would even listen. It's easier to just claim it's Russian propaganda.

 

[MT15]

Please explain what's incorrect about that article and why FAIR is a propaganda rag? Be specific.

The article that you are trying to ignore answered your question. It's not my fault that you think that anything that isn't American propaganda is Russian Propaganda. You guys are so engrained to claim everything you don't believe is Russian propaganda that you ignore anything that goes against your world view.

The article is largely opinion in key places, not fact. And it is definitely written from a pro-Russia perspective. Here are a couple of critiques from their own subscribers, language warning:

“Yo for real!! I found many issues with this article. Some of it is frankly misleading, like mentioning the UN Human Rights organization decrying abuses escalating in Ukraine since 2014. I looked it up, and those human rights abuses in question were committed in pro-Russian-separatist controlled areas…

Yeah, the Azov Battalion and the Nazis in Ukraine’s Army is very problematic, but it’s not like Nazis opting into military duty is anything unique to Russia. [ed-i think he meant Ukraine, but any free country probably has some Nazi-sympathizers. Heck, Russia also has some in their army as well]

The situation is extremely complicated. I’ve spent years now trying to wade through the muck and figure out just what the hell is happening in Ukraine. This piece shows Russia’s perspective, which is very important to understand. However, it seems to lack nuance. And at the end of the day, none of the events mentioned justify an invasion on Ukraine. While the article doesn’t explicitly support war in Ukraine, it sure seems to imply that it’s justified (by explaining only Russia’s side of the story).

Both American as well as Russian imperialism are bad. Very, very bad. Both of them. And now that Putin had described Ukrainian sovereignty as a “myth”, and now that Russian troops have committed many atrocious war crimes against Ukraine, and considering that almost the entire country is resisting their occupation, it’s pretty forking clear by now that Russian forces are not in Ukraine to liberate them. Man, I expected more from FAIR.”


“Your piece is utter bullshirt
For example the Ukrainian Rada voted to IMPEACH Victor Yanukovych in 2014. The impeachment was backed by 328 of the 447 deputies.
He then fled to RUSSIA as did his loyalists in the Parliament.
Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko who Yanokovitch had imprisoned in 2011 was finally freed from jail
New elections were held. Julia lost to Petro Poroshenko who won with 54% of the vote. Of course, Crimea (annexed by Russia) lost their right to vote and in the Donbas regions taken by Putin and occupied) most polling places were kept closed.
We are now four elections past this event. Doesn’t sound like a coup or PRESSURE FROM THE IMF or from the US
Stop this crap now!”

 

[MT15]

I doubt you guys would even listen. It's easier to just claim it's Russian propaganda.

And it’s easier for you to believe it than question your sources or think for yourself.

 

[J-DONK]

Please explain what's incorrect about that article and why FAIR is a propaganda rag? Be specific.

The article that you are trying to ignore answered your question. It's not my fault that you think that anything that isn't American propaganda is Russian Propaganda. You guys are so engrained to claim everything you don't believe is Russian propaganda that you ignore anything that goes against your world view.

The article is bad. This is an old article that has a bunch of debunked Russian propaganda talking points in it. He talks about stuff like funding nazi's. America gave money to Ukraine's military, which had some far right nazi guys in it. You could say it's an endemic problem with most militaries, considering: https://rollcall.com/2021/02/16/pen...ads-white-supremacists-have-made-in-military/

He also clings to NATO expansion talking point, but that's never made sense. NATO has been on Russia's border for a long time. Whoever believes that has 2 brain cells.

I think the author just isn't a smart guy. He is probably just going with a contrarian point for clicks.

I've thought about this a lot, and one thing is true. Russia did not care to invade Ukraine until it's gas exports were in jeopardy. Ukraine had a pro-western president before the current president. Russia tried to murder him, but there was no invasion. I can even further back up this idea with current conflict map. If Russia keeps it's recent gains it will keep most of Ukraine's gas fields in the Black Sea.

It's hilarious you have Americans who thought the invasion of Iraq was over resources, yet this conflict can't be.

 

[J-DONK]

STL, you should read this.

Opinion | Putin’s Ukraine Invasion Is About Energy and Natural Resources

The West can deny Russia access to markets while building up the trans-Atlantic oil and gas trade.

www.wsj.com

There are four reasons to think this war is, or will default to, an energy heist. The first is Russian national interest. Taking Ukraine’s energy would give Mr. Putin the second-largest natural-gas reserves in Europe, worth more than $1 trillion at today’s prices. It would give him oil and condensate worth as much as $400 billion, and most of Ukraine’s coal—the sixth-largest reserve base in the world.

The second reason to think this war is a resource grab is Mr. Putin’s tactical focus. Russian troops are now concentrated in the parts of Ukraine that hold 90% of its energy resources. They have seized the Donbas and control Luhansk and Donetsk.

 

[DaveXA]

And it’s easier for you to believe it than question your sources or think for yourself.

It really is. I mean, I didn't have to read 2 paragraphs before I knew the article was complete BS. It's chock full of misinformation and outright false info. That he can't see it for what it is speaks volumes. Tired of the same old debunked parroting talking points.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Can you see the difference between a little help fostering the legend of a hero performing well during the early days of a war where Ukraine desperately needed to keep morale high, and the coordinated cover-up of crimes? I can tell the difference.

It was fairly obvious that the “ghost of Kiev” was apocryphal, the figures of the kills varied rapidly and were never consistent. It was a good story, though, and there actually were heroic pilots who were defending the skies in Ukraine. It just wasn’t one guy with a catchy name.

Perspective is important. The right has lost all perspective. Let us not follow down that path.

Well, lets take Tillman's case. Friendly fire isn't a crime but it's not as glamorous as a heroic death so they lied and went with the heroic death because Tillman had been used to promote military service. However, I agree that it isn't exactly the same thing but it's down the same avenue. Both were propaganda or "illusions" aimed at populations embroiled in war.