Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.

VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.

www.nytimes.com

Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

How to think about war in Ukraine

Start with the Ukrainians

snyder.substack.com

 

[coldseat]

My point is that Ukraine should be viewed as the proxy war that it is for the US. Putin is 100% responsible for invading Ukraine and everything horrible that's happened since then. But if the US continued to poke the bear in Russia via Ukraine are we surprised that eventually Putin made his own move to counter what he claims is a threat at his border?

Let's say for the sake of argument that Ukrainians over throw Yanukovych's puppet government in 2014 (because regardless of influence, you can't put that on the US). And assuming that the US didn't have any ties with Ukraine in your ideal model world, can you honestly believe Russia wouldn't have eventually invaded and conquered Ukraine?

I can almost assuredly say it would have happened earlier. So while this has become a proxy way for the US to diminish Russian military power, it wasn't a proxy war of our making. And we are right to make it a proxy war, as Russia has become a huge destabilizing player in the world and that has big implications for the US. Either way, we end up exactly where we are.

Sometimes, you don't choose the battles, sometimes you just have to fight them!

 

[SaintForLife]

You don't have to take my word for it. This is our stated goal.

Austin’s assertion that US wants to ‘weaken’ Russia underlines Biden strategy shift | CNN Politics

As Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has transformed into a grinding war of attrition with no meaningful peace deal in sight, the US and its allies have begun to convey a new, longer-term goal for the war: to defeat Russia so decisively on the battlefield that it will be deterred from launching such...

www.cnn.com

Proxy war

 

[SaintForLife]

Ok if you say so. All these policy makers, diplomats, academics…are all wrong. I didn’t know you can redefine the term unilaterally. What bc it doesn’t include Central America, s. America, Africa?

Yes relative peace.

Yes yes yes to all those hardly peaceful. So what? Local and region wars happen. The system isn’t perfect. It is far from it.

So tell me what the neocons want? You ve already redefine world order.

And yes, I shared an article. It’s in English. I’m quite proud that I was able to read it.

Depending on who you are referring to they are probably part of the propaganda machine. Are they members of any military/CIA/weapons manufacturer funded think tanks or foundations? Always follow the money.

 

[UriUT]

Such an amazing read. I remember reports of assassin squads hunting Zelensky, but I didn’t know how close they were. Such a remarkable person.

Meanwhile…

 

[SaintForLife]

The aid started when we realized they weren't going to get rolled. We started aid way before Bucha, or other human right abuses became apparent. This is consistent with what was going on there before. Our initial interest in Ukraine was to influence the country, and help them develop gas exports in the Black Sea. That would have weakened Russia.

I think the only convincing argument you could make for why America cares about this display of Russian cruelty vs other wars is tiktok.

I often wonder why we don't see any images or videos in our media of Sauda Arabia bombing and killing civilians in Yemen. Probably because we are in bed with Saudia Arabia, they aren't Russia, and because the weapons manufacturers are making a lot of money there.

Can someone give their opinion on why we don't see what's happening in Yemen on the nightly news?

 

[SaintForLife]

Let's say for the sake of argument that Ukrainians over throw Yanukovych's puppet government in 2014 (because regardless of influence, you can't put that on the US). And assuming that the US didn't have any ties with Ukraine in your ideal model world, can you honestly believe Russia wouldn't have eventually invaded and conquered Ukraine?

I can almost assuredly say it would have happened earlier. So while this has become a proxy way for the US to diminish Russian military power, it wasn't a proxy war of our making. And we are right to make it a proxy war, as Russia has become a huge destabilizing player in the world and that has big implications for the US. Either way, we end up exactly where we are.

Sometimes, you don't choose the battles, sometimes you just have to fight them!

I have no idea, but if they did what does that have to do with the our interests? Do we still have to act like we are the world's policeman?

Do you think Russia still would have invaded Ukraine if NATO didn't expand past where they were at the time of the reunification of Germany?

 

[SaintForLife]

 

[coldseat]

I have no idea, but if they did what does that have to do with the our interests? Do we still have to act like we are the world's policeman?

Do you think Russia still would have invaded Ukraine if NATO didn't expand past where they were at the time of the reunification of Germany?

Yes, I do. Just like they invaded Georgia. Russia was/is willing to move on any former Soviet block country that isn't aligned and controlled by them through some puppet government. The countries most protected from that are the ones that joined NATO.

Besides, why does Russia get to decide what countries join NATO? That is a decision between a sovereign country and NATO.

Our interest lies in a Europe that isn't under threat of Russian desestabilizaron and aggression. The reason are numerous.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

They both said something about Russia that you don't believe and that's your weak way to try to discredit them? You didn't even sat anything about their comments you posted.

I don't have to discredit them, their own comments does that for me. I believe that ANYONE that goes on RT and regurgitates Soviet talking points loses all credibility. Yes, I know you believe that RT is equal to US MSM and I'm not gonna attempt to change your mind cause I couldn't care less.

The first instance was about a double agent. Despite Putin's history of killing his opponents do you think it's even possible that the UK could have killed their spy that was also working for the Russians?

Nope.

What would be the UK's motivation to kill a known former KGB/FSB officer who sought them out for asylum as he fled Russia after he discovered that he had a price on his head??? Even if he turned out to be a double super secret agent, he would have been a more valuable prisoner than a dead man.

The second one said For all its brutalities and failures, communism in the Soviet Union, eastern Europe and elsewhere delivered rapid industrialisation, mass education, job security and huge advances in social and gender equality. It encompassed genuine idealism and commitment ... Its existence helped to drive up welfare standards in the west, boosted the anticolonial movement and provided a powerful counterweight to western global domination."

Are you claiming that's not true? Is it possible for Russia/Putin to have done plenty of bad things while also improving some parts of Russian life?

That's not for me to answer, that question is more suited for citizens of the Soviet Union and it seems to me that there was an overwhelming majority of them that despised the communist regime soooo much that the Soviet Union collapsed. Hundreds of thousand of them fled the USSR before its fall and hundreds of thousand of them have fought to the death since the fall in an effort to avoid Russian rule.

Also do you claim that Nazism and Communism are very similar?

It's beyond irritating that you chose to make that asinine assumption.

The writer chose to make that equation to minimize Stalin's brutality and to prop up communism as a viable alternative to democracy.

 

[SaintForLife]

I don't have to discredit them, their own comments does that for me. I believe that ANYONE that goes on RT and regurgitates Soviet talking points loses all credibility. Yes, I know you believe that RT is equal to US MSM and I'm not gonna attempt to change your mind cause I couldn't care less.

Nope.

What would be the UK's motivation to kill a known former KGB/FSB officer who sought them out for asylum as he fled Russia after he discovered that he had a price on his head??? Even if he turned out to be a double super secret agent, he would have been a more valuable prisoner than a dead man.

That's not for me to answer, that question is more suited for citizens of the Soviet Union and it seems to me that there was an overwhelming majority of them that despised the communist regime soooo much that the Soviet Union collapsed. Hundreds of thousand of them fled the USSR before its fall and hundreds of thousand of them have fought to the death since the fall in an effort to avoid Russian rule.

It's beyond irritating that you chose to make that asinine assumption.

The writer chose to make that equation to minimize Stalin's brutality and to prop up communism as a viable alternative to democracy.

I don't think RT is equal to the US media but keep claiming stupid things if it makes you feel better.

So the British Intelligence Agecy would never kill a double agent? I'm not saying that happened in this instance, but that's probably happened before.

So anyone who has been on RT is automatically discredited?

 

[MT15]

That's from the US Ambassador. If the US was involved in the coup do you think any US official would admit that?

Why do you consider a possible source of bias for sources you don’t agree with, yet accept at face value those sources you like?

Hint: there’s a name for that. You should familiarize yourself with the concept.

 

[MT15]

I have no idea, but if they did what does that have to do with the our interests? Do we still have to act like we are the world's policeman?

Do you think Russia still would have invaded Ukraine if NATO didn't expand past where they were at the time of the reunification of Germany?

Your stance here is alarmingly isolationist, and just not viable in the modern world. Do you really think that allowing Russia to continue to expand ruthlessly into Europe is in our best interests?

Not to mention the concept of “noblesse oblige”. We are the richest country in the world.

 

[SamAndreas]

My point is that Ukraine should be viewed as the proxy war that it is for the US. Putin is 100% responsible for invading Ukraine and everything horrible that's happened since then. But if the US continued to poke the bear in Russia via Ukraine are we surprised that eventually Putin made his own move to counter what he claims is a threat at his border?

Russia was promised that NATO wouldn't expand any further west after the reunification of Germany. As bad as Putin is, it's pretty obvious that he sees the continued NATO expansion as a threat to him. How do you think the US would react if Russia put missiles in Canada and Mexico? We would rightly treat it as a provocative act.

I'm an anti-imperialist so I think the US and all countries should stop all the wars and conflicts and focus on protecting our country rather than meddle on other countries. I do think the US has done a lot of good, but over the last couple years of learning how the war & propaganda machines function I don't buy the supporting freedom argument as the main reasons for meddling in other countries.

You have not been paying enough attention.

We're to that point right now that 30% of Americans were at just before, a week or two, perhaps a month before, Peril Harbor Dec 6 1941.

I think you need to decide who's side you are on, and do it pretty darned soon. like tomorrow.

The day after Peril Harbor was over about 30% of Americans who thought the Nazi conservative racist nationalist policy was what America ought to pursue suddenly found out that they were on the wrong side and they beat feet scrambling to be onto the right side most quickly before every one else in America would hate them for being ,,, well totally wrong!

A month later it was hard to find an American who would admit that they had liked the Nazi's on the day the war started. The thing was the Nazi movement started in America, moved to Germany and took off, became the Holocaust.

Germany couldn't figure out why we didn't align to their side. We started that movement at the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in Maine. 30% of Americans prior to WWII are the original Nazi's who created it. The most famous of them was Charles Lindbergh who flew the Spirit or St Louis.

Later his son was kidnapped and killed by a creep. He was a Nazi who's history has been cleaned up so he can still be an American hero in spite of the fact that he was a scumfish Nazi.





Get it figured out Saint's for life before you become one of those proverbial scumfish in America. You don't want to be a scumfish on the wrong side of WWIII.

Yes, I said did say WWIII, It's starting to look like WWIII will come from this.

Home folks will hate you if you're on the wrong side of it on the day when 1,000's of body bags filled with American boys start returning home.

 

[UriUT]

You have not been paying enough attention.

We're to that point right now that 30% of Americans were at just before, a week or two, perhaps a month before, Peril Harbor Dec 6 1941.

I think you need to decide who's side you are on, and do it pretty darned soon. like tomorrow.

The day after Peril Harbor was over about 30% of Americans who thought the Nazi conservative racist nationalist policy was what America ought to pursue suddenly found out that they were on the wrong side and they beat feet scrambling to be onto the right side most quickly before every one else in America would hate them for being ,,, well totally wrong!

A month later it was hard to find an American who would admit that they had liked the Nazi's on the day the war started. The thing was the Nazi movement started in America, moved to Germany and took off, became the Holocaust.

Germany couldn't figure out why we didn't align to their side. We started that movement at the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in Maine. 30% of Americans prior to WWII are the original Nazi's who created it. The most famous of them was Charles Lindbergh who flew the Spirit or St Louis.

Later his son was kidnapped and killed by a creep. He was a Nazi who's history has been cleaned up so he can still be an American hero in spite of the fact that he was a scumfish Nazi.





Get it figured out Saint's for life before you become one of those proverbial scumfish in America. You don't want to be a scumfish on the wrong side of WWIII.

Yes, I said did say WWIII, It's starting to look like WWIII will come from this.

Home folks will hate you if you're on the wrong side of it on the day when 1,000's of body bags filled with American boys start returning home.

I believe that after putin's recent erratic saber rattling we should be a little more concerned. However do you really believe we re closer to war? Biden has made it clear that no us troops will be in Ukraine and us diplomats will go no further than lviv. Plus ukraine has done a superb job on their own. I read a statement today from the ukrainian...forgetting who it came from atm possibly the defense minister...that they are now getting heavy equipment that they need. He expects that by mid June...i have to find it...sorry if this may be incorrect...that they will be ready for an offensive. Also, despite losing some ground, the ukrainians are inflicting heavy losses to the russians. And even if the russians managed to encircle the jfo, they risk counter attacks. Unless Russia mobilizes, I dont think they will be very successful and that we will not be needed. Especially once the ukrainians familiarize themselves with Western equipment. we are or have already sent our mrls that has farther range than what the russians have. Russia still does not have air superiority!!!! This war is now about attrition and moscow is in a bind. Which puts the nukes saber rattling into perspective.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I don't think RT is equal to the US media but keep claiming stupid things if it makes you feel better.

Sure.

So the British Intelligence Agecy would never kill a double agent?

Typical.

So anyone who has been on RT is automatically discredited?

Again, typical.

 

[SamAndreas]

I believe that after putin's recent erratic saber rattling we should be a little more concerned. However do you really believe we re closer to war? Biden has made it clear that no us troops will be in Ukraine and us diplomats will go no further than lviv. Plus ukraine has done a superb job on their own. I read a statement today from the ukrainian...forgetting who it came from atm possibly the defense minister...that they are now getting heavy equipment that they need. He expects that by mid June...i have to find it...sorry if this may be incorrect...that they will be ready for an offensive. Also, despite losing some ground, the ukrainians are inflicting heavy losses to the russians. And even if the russians managed to encircle the jfo, they risk counter attacks. Unless Russia mobilizes, I dont think they will be very successful and that we will not be needed. Especially once the ukrainians familiarize themselves with Western equipment. we are or have already sent our mrls that has farther range than what the russians have. Russia still does not have air superiority!!!! This war is now about attrition and moscow is in a bind. Which puts the nukes saber rattling into perspective.

Yes, I feel that day by day were getting closer to that kind of war.



There is history. Russians have tried to rub out the Ukrainians several times in past history. The last time they tried it was about 90 years ago and it was totally awful. It was like a half of the Holocaust insofar as counting the dead, that the Germans did to Jews. Millions of Ukrainians died of starvation as a result. The Soviets stole their food.

Holodomor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[UriUT]

Yes, I feel that day by day were getting closer to that kind of war.



There is history. Russians have tried to rub out the Ukrainians several times in past history. The last time they tried it was about 90 years ago and it was totally awful. It was like a half of the Holocaust insofar as counting the dead, that the Germans did to Jews. Millions of Ukrainians died of starvation as a result. The Soviets stole their food.

Holodomor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I get you. I feel the same way. Mark Hertling is a superb read daily. He is the most bullish towards the Ukrainian army that I've seen. He worked with them I believe and trusts their training and skill.

Yeah their history has been tragic. Especially unfortunate is how the Russians perceive them. And the world actually. Some Russian experts reflected that they overlooked Ukraine; that they may have focused too heavily on Russia.

 

[DaveXA]

I believe that after putin's recent erratic saber rattling we should be a little more concerned. However do you really believe we re closer to war? Biden has made it clear that no us troops will be in Ukraine and us diplomats will go no further than lviv. Plus ukraine has done a superb job on their own. I read a statement today from the ukrainian...forgetting who it came from atm possibly the defense minister...that they are now getting heavy equipment that they need. He expects that by mid June...i have to find it...sorry if this may be incorrect...that they will be ready for an offensive. Also, despite losing some ground, the ukrainians are inflicting heavy losses to the russians. And even if the russians managed to encircle the jfo, they risk counter attacks. Unless Russia mobilizes, I dont think they will be very successful and that we will not be needed. Especially once the ukrainians familiarize themselves with Western equipment. we are or have already sent our mrls that has farther range than what the russians have. Russia still does not have air superiority!!!! This war is now about attrition and moscow is in a bind. Which puts the nukes saber rattling into perspective.

Well, there were US diplomats in Kyiv just a few days ago so....

We should be concerned though. We can't take Putin's words lightly either though. A lot of people didn't think Russia would invade Ukraine, yet here we are. Putin and his ambassador talking like nukes are an option if they feel the need to use them should be a grave concern. I hope it's just saber rattling, except that it isn't. We can saber rattle with a lot of things, but with CBN, it's completely irresponsible and Russia should be alarmed that their leaders are doing this. It's beyond the pale.