Is Russia about to invade Ukraine? (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

Russia continues to mass assets within range of Ukraine - though the official explanations are that they are for various exercises. United States intelligence has noted that Russian operatives in Ukraine could launch 'false flag' operations as a predicate to invasion. The West has pressed for negotiations and on Friday in Geneva, the US Sec. State Blinken will meet with the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.

Certainly the Russian movements evidence some plan - but what is it? Some analysts believe that Putin's grand scheme involves securing Western commitments that NATO would never expand beyond its current composition. Whether that means action in Ukraine or merely the movement of pieces on the chess board remains to be seen.

VIENNA — No one expected much progress from this past week’s diplomatic marathon to defuse the security crisis Russia has ignited in Eastern Europe by surrounding Ukraine on three sides with 100,000 troops and then, by the White House’s accounting, sending in saboteurs to create a pretext for invasion.

But as the Biden administration and NATO conduct tabletop simulations about how the next few months could unfold, they are increasingly wary of another set of options for President Vladimir V. Putin, steps that are more far-reaching than simply rolling his troops and armor over Ukraine’s border.

Mr. Putin wants to extend Russia’s sphere of influence to Eastern Europe and secure written commitments that NATO will never again enlarge. If he is frustrated in reaching that goal, some of his aides suggested on the sidelines of the negotiations last week, then he would pursue Russia’s security interests with results that would be felt acutely in Europe and the United States.

There were hints, never quite spelled out, that nuclear weapons could be shifted to places — perhaps not far from the United States coastline — that would reduce warning times after a launch to as little as five minutes, potentially igniting a confrontation with echoes of the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russia Issues Subtle Threats More Far-Reaching Than a Ukraine Invasion

If the West fails to meet its security demands, Moscow could take measures like placing nuclear missiles close to the U.S. coastline, Russian officials have hinted.

www.nytimes.com

Blinken Will Meet With Russia as U.S. Pushes for More Diplomacy

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken will meet with Foreign Minister Sergey V. Lavrov of Russia in Geneva on Friday as the United States warns that Russia could soon attack Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

How to think about war in Ukraine

Start with the Ukrainians

snyder.substack.com

 

[J-DONK]

It's probably hard for you to keep up with what we were talking about since you are so much smarter than me, but my previous reply before the one you quoted was about the US war machine and the military industrial complex.

No, I'm keeping up just fine. It's ridiculous.

America didn't provoke Russia into attacking Ukraine.

 

[MT15]

No, I'm keeping up just fine. It's ridiculous.

America didn't provoke Russia into attacking Ukraine.

Now, now, J, Putin said it so it must be true.

 

[Maxp]

Jesus Christ, put this guy on ignore already. Every thread is full of useless drivel at this point. Stop responding to him.

 

[DaveXA]

The wars have been planned in advance, but keep slurping up that corporate media war propaganda.

 

[SaintForLife]

No, I'm keeping up just fine. It's ridiculous.

How would Clark know back then most of the countries we would be getting involved with militarily?

America didn't provoke Russia into attacking Ukraine.

America along with NATO provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine.



What if China decided to form their own version of NATO and they got Mexico and Canada to join? The US would see that as a national security threat right?

What if China's Ministry of State Security(Their CIA) installed 40 secret bases on the US borders with Canada and Mexico. The US would see that as a national security threat right?

What if China supported Coups in Canada or Mexico to get new leaders installed who were hostile to the US, but friendly with China. The US would see that as a national security threat right?

 

[DaveXA]

It's probably hard for you to keep up with what we were talking about since you are so much smarter than me, but my previous reply before the one you quoted was about the US war machine and the military industrial complex.

Your skill at deflecting and making excuses for Russia knows no bounds. Keep on topic. We're talking about Russia and you keep changing it to something else.

 

[SaintForLife]

Now, now, J, Putin said it so it must be true.

Actually the secretary of NATO said that.

 

[SaintForLife]

Your skill at deflecting and making excuses for Russia knows no bounds. Keep on topic. We're talking about Russia and you keep changing it to something else.

Oh wow. You were able to get 3 full sentences in. I'm proud of you.

 

[DaveXA]

How would Clark know back then most of the countries we would be getting involved with militarily?

Why does that matter?

America along with NATO provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine.

Complete, utter bullshirt. Russia invaded Ukraine, full stop.

What if China decided to form their own version of NATO and they got Mexico and Canada to join? The US would see that as a national security threat right?

Sure, but we aren't gonna invade them for it, just like we didn't invade Cuba.

What if China's Ministry of State Security(Their CIA) installed 40 secret bases on the US borders with Canada and Mexico. The US would see that as a national security threat right?

Sure, and how they respond to it won't be invading the country.

What if China supported Coups in Canada or Mexico to get new leaders installed who were hostile to the US, but friendly with China. The US would see that as a national security threat right?

Same thing.

 

[MT15]

Actually the secretary of NATO said that.

Actually, the US didn’t back Ukraine’s entry into NATO for a long time. As recently as just before the invasion. Of course, after this they will be guaranteed membership as long as Putin doesn’t succeed.

NATO Won’t Let Ukraine Join Soon. Here’s Why. (Published 2022)

Ukraine has pressed for membership to defend against Russia. But President Biden and European leaders are not ready for that step.

www.nytimes.com

Here is a screenshot of a search for all the times Ukraine was denied NATO membership.

 

[SaintForLife]

Why does that matter?

Because it shows their justifications for the wars are complete BS. Sadamn had WMD.

Complete, utter bullshirt. Russia invaded Ukraine, full stop.

Sure, but we aren't gonna invade them for it, just like we didn't invade Cuba.

Jesus Christ dude. You say its bullshirt and there's a video in the post you replied to with the NATO Secretary saying exactly that.

Sure, and how they respond to it won't be invading the country.

Same thing.

Yeah the US never invades other countries

 

[DaveXA]

Because it shows their justifications for the wars are complete BS. Sadamn had WMD.

What the hell? Ukraine is not Iraq. Biden is not Bush. Russia invaded Ukraine...that is all. But keep deflecting if it makes you feel better.

Jesus Christ dude. You say its bullshirt and there's a video in the post you replied to with the NATO Secretary saying exactly that.

It is utter bullshirt regardless what anyone says. Russia didn't need our permission to invade. They did that on their own. Everything else is just making excuses for Lord Poots.

Yeah the US never invades other countries

Where did I say that? And yes, the US had made their share of mistakes...but...keep your eye on the ball, we're talking about the invaders. The deflection is nonsense.

 

[efil4]

So I'll ask again, who's words were those? " Zelensky concentration camps)

Since sfl refuses to answer this...those we not Vitaliys words. It was the words of the X user who reposted the link to Telegram.

The X user who joined Twitter in....Feb 2022.

Imagine that.

 

[LA - L.A.]

America along with NATO provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg didn't say anything like "Russia informed NATO before the war that it could avert it by denying membership to Ukraine" or "NATO provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine."

Those are both false claims that keep getting made about what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said.

The video clip is only 1:25 minutes long, so I encourage everyone to watch it for themselves to hear for themselves what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg actually said. Then you will hear the truth for yourself.

Below is the verbatim transcript of what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg actually said. The clip in the Twitter post was edited in a way that distorts the context of what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg was speaking about. I started the text of his speech right before where the video clip starts to give the full context of what was actually said.

I bolded the text of the actual conditions that Putin gave NATO for Putin not to invade Ukraine.

Keep in mind that Ukraine gave up it's nuclear weapons in 1994 on the promise of the security of its sovereignty from several European nations including Russia. How did that promise from Russia work out for Ukraine?

Also keep in mind that Finland and Sweden were neutral and not interested in joining NATO until after Putin invaded Ukraine.

Now to the actual text that is being falsely interpreted and presented:

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm?selectedLocale=en

​

"Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.​

​

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.​

​

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite. He has got more NATO presence in eastern part of the Alliance and he has also seen that Finland has already joined the Alliance and Sweden will soon be a full member."​

​

​

(edit in video that cuts out the following)​

"Because at Vilnius Summit, we agreed a statement where it was clearly expressed how Sweden will do more, follow up the agreement we had in Madrid on fighting terrorism, and also address issues related to export of military equipment, and then Türkiye made it clear that they will ratify as soon as possible.​

​

This has been reiterated by President Erdogan several times. So I expect that when the Turkish parliament reconvenes later this autumn the ratification will happen as soon as possible, which has been stated again and again. And then we will be 32 Allies, and both Sweden and Finland will be members."​

​

​

(video picks up here)​

"This is this is good for the Nordic countries. It's good for Finland and Sweden. And it's also good for NATO. And it demonstrates that when President Putin invaded a European country to prevent more NATO, he's getting the exact opposite."​

Putin basically told NATO, "look, if you and your friends promise to stop moving into the neighborhood and that you'll remove all the home security systems you gave your friends already in the neighborhood, then I promise not to do a home invasion of the new friend you made in the neighborhood. Capiche?" When people refuse to give into the threats of mobsters, do we blame the victims or other people for the actions of the mobsters? No, we don't, because that's absurd.

Putin has a long history of using a pretext of promising not to attack as a way to intimidate and/or trick countries into weakening themselves so he can attack them. This is what Putin was trying to do with NATO.

He was always going to launch a full invasion of Ukraine. He partially invaded Ukraine in 2014 and his "peace proposal" didn't include him withdrawing from Crimea and the other areas of Ukraine occupied by Russia. NATO rightfully told Putin to "eff" off, just like those Ukrainians on Snake Island rightfully told the Russians on the warship to go "eff" themselves.

Putin wanted the pullback of NATO troops from NATO countries, because he didn't just want to attack Ukraine. He wanted to attack those other countries too or their non-NATO neighbors. He was trying to get NATO to clear the board for him to make a run at. Everything Putin does is aggressive in nature, not defensive.

Somewhat related, I ask people to understand the real dynamic of Americans carrying water for Putin. It's not that they are loyal to Putin. They are loyal to Trump and Trump carries water for Putin, so they carry water for Putin. If Trump started blaming and criticizing Putin, they would also start blaming and criticizing Putin.

It looks the same and the end result is the same, but it's an important distinction to be aware of.

 

[DaveXA]

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg didn't say anything like "Russia informed NATO before the war that it could avert it by denying membership to Ukraine" or "NATO provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine."

Those are both false claims that keep getting made about what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said.

The video clip is only 1:25 minutes long, so I encourage everyone to watch it for themselves to hear for themselves what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg actually said. Then you will hear the truth for yourself.

Below is the verbatim transcript of what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg actually said. The clip in the Twitter post was edited in a way that distorts the context of what NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg was speaking about. I started the text of his speech right before where the video clip starts to give the full context of what was actually said.

I bolded the text of the actual conditions that Putin gave NATO for Putin not to invade Ukraine.

Keep in mind that Ukraine gave up it's nuclear weapons in 1994 on the promise of the security of its sovereignty from several European nations including Russia. How did that promise from Russia work out for Ukraine?

Also keep in mind that Finland and Sweden were neutral and not interested in joining NATO until after Putin invaded Ukraine.

Now to the actual text that is being falsely interpreted and presented:

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm?selectedLocale=en

​

"Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.​

​

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.​

​

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite. He has got more NATO presence in eastern part of the Alliance and he has also seen that Finland has already joined the Alliance and Sweden will soon be a full member."​

​

​

(edit in video that cuts out the following)​

"Because at Vilnius Summit, we agreed a statement where it was clearly expressed how Sweden will do more, follow up the agreement we had in Madrid on fighting terrorism, and also address issues related to export of military equipment, and then Türkiye made it clear that they will ratify as soon as possible.​

​

This has been reiterated by President Erdogan several times. So I expect that when the Turkish parliament reconvenes later this autumn the ratification will happen as soon as possible, which has been stated again and again. And then we will be 32 Allies, and both Sweden and Finland will be members."​

​

​

(video picks up here)​

"This is this is good for the Nordic countries. It's good for Finland and Sweden. And it's also good for NATO. And it demonstrates that when President Putin invaded a European country to prevent more NATO, he's getting the exact opposite."​

Putin basically told NATO, "look, if you and your friends promise to stop moving into the neighborhood and that you'll remove all the home security systems you gave your friends already in the neighborhood, then I promise not to do a home invasion of the new friend you made in the neighborhood. Capiche?" When people refuse to give into the threats of mobsters, do we blame the victims or other people for the actions of the mobsters? No, we don't, because that's absurd.

Putin has a long history of using a pretext of promising not to attack as a way to intimidate and/or trick countries into weakening themselves so he can attack them. This is what Putin was trying to do with NATO.

He was always going to launch a full invasion of Ukraine. He partially invaded Ukraine in 2014 and his "peace proposal" didn't include him withdrawing from Crimea and the other areas of Ukraine occupied by Russia. NATO rightfully told Putin to "eff" off, just like those Ukrainians on Snake Island rightfully told the Russians on the warship to go "eff" themselves.

Putin wanted the pullback of NATO troops from NATO countries, because he didn't just want to attack Ukraine. He wanted to attack those other countries too or their non-NATO neighbors. He was trying to get NATO to clear the board for him to make a run at. Everything Putin does is aggressive in nature, not defensive.

Somewhat related, I ask people to understand the real dynamic of Americans carrying water for Putin. It's not that they are loyal to Putin. They are loyal to Trump and Trump carries water for Putin, so they carry water for Putin. If Trump started blaming and criticizing Putin, they would also start blaming and criticizing Putin.

It looks the same and the end result is the same, but it's an important distinction to be aware of.

Nice post.

 

[J-DONK]

How would Clark know back then most of the countries we would be getting involved with militarily?

America along with NATO provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine.



What if China decided to form their own version of NATO and they got Mexico and Canada to join? The US would see that as a national security threat right?

What if China's Ministry of State Security(Their CIA) installed 40 secret bases on the US borders with Canada and Mexico. The US would see that as a national security threat right?

What if China supported Coups in Canada or Mexico to get new leaders installed who were hostile to the US, but friendly with China. The US would see that as a national security threat right?

I sometimes wonder if you even know basic facts.

1. NATO already borders Russia

2. NATO Baltic countries are extremely close to Russia population centers. It's 80 miles from Estonia to St. Petersburg.

3. The Baltic countries joined 20 years ago.

4. NATO has never attacked Russia, nor threatened to first strike them.

5. Defense pacts are only provocative if you intend to invade.

6. Any member country of NATO can leave at anytime. France left in 1966 with a handshake, and rejoined fully in 2009.

7. Your post is full of missing reasons. Why does Europe, and especially former Warsaw countries want to join NATO so bad after the dissolution of the USSR?

8. Russia is in violation of it's own security guarantees for Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

 

[samiam5211]

It is true that the number of countries in NATO has pretty much doubled since 1990.

The truth is that most or all of the countries who joined, did it out of fear of Russian aggression.

It's not a sign of NATO aggression as Putin and his useful idiots like SFL like to claim though.

 

[DaveXA]

It is true that the number of countries in NATO has pretty much doubled since 1990.

The truth is that most or all of the countries who joined, did it out of fear of Russian aggression.

It's not a sign of NATO aggression as Putin and his useful idiots like SFL like to claim though.

Useful idiots is correct. The evidence and facts are overwhelming. Poots and his sycophants have no excuse.