Impeachment Round Two (4 Viewers)

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    Yggdrasill

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    I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

    Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.
     
    well this is a twist
    ========================

    As Donald Trump faces the possibility that his presidency will end early and in disgrace, Newsmax TV host Greg Kelly is focusing on a different priority: the impeachment of President-Elect Joe Biden.

    Ever since the 2020 election ended, Kelly has denied Biden’s victory, pushed numerous voter fraud conspiracy theories, and claimed Trump would definitely get a second term. When confronted with the unavoidable reality of Trump’s defeat, he compared Biden to a bank robber getting away with his crime..................

    Newsmax’s Greg Kelly Demands Joe Biden’s Impeachment for ‘Election Fraud’ Based on Debunked Clip (msn.com)
     
    Didn’t he also tweet about Pence during the riot? I’m pretty sure he tweeted criticism of Pence while the mob was actually hunting him down and chanting “hang Mike Pence”.
     
    SFIDC3 said:
    This is a perfect example of a troll....and a disingenuous one at that....
    Click to expand...

    yeah, I am surprise some on here even bother wasting their time with this person. I certainly don't have the patience for essentially someone apparently not knowing too much about what is going on, yet still offering their opinion "it couldn't possibly be that bad, right?"
     
    And another thing. He didn’t just stoke the flames of a riot, if those people were of any other country of origin, we’d be invading another country for an act of terrorism.
     
    Roofgardener said:
    Sitting in the UK, it is a trifle difficult to understand the degree of anger against Donald Trump, and these howls for his impeachment to prevent him running for office again.

    As I understand it, he never incited ANYONE to invade the Capitol building; he just called for a protest outside it.

    But be that as it may, you should really consider that he got ALMOST as many votes as Joe Biden. (74 million vs 81 million, or about 47% of the electorate.

    Are you ENTIRELY happy about disenfranchising that many Americans by artificially preventing them from voting for him again in the future ?

    If you are, then fine. But consider what you are doing. You are - potentially - alienating a VERY large proportion of the electorate.

    Wouldn't it be safer to let him run, and be defeated ?
    Click to expand...
    Really?

    It is not safe to allow someone to run who has bucked the law, rules, and shows no fitness to serve. He was given a lot of opportunities. Since the Ukraine situation, and now with this Capitol situation, it's too much... I'll get into that below.

    OK, let's start with the fact he's a giant butt crevasse in public, so it's easy to see him being disliked. This can't be ignored. Not a crime, but it tilts the balance a little.

    Let's also remind ourselves that US politics, the President the highest office in the land, separate from Congress, and the peaceful relinquishment of that power when their term ends is a critical part of our democracy.

    Let us also remind ourselves, that since Lincoln won election, the 'loser' has reached out to congradulate the winner and speak to the public about getting behind the new president. The modern "concession speech" actually started in 1896 and has happened for every single election, until now. Every. Single. Election. Sometimes a couple weeks late (in some close elections), others a day late, but always happened. It's important for the country.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...used-to-concede-heres-why-that-matters/#close you have to register to read it.

    The assault on the truth has been beyond pale. The idea that this election was stolen is a brazen lie.

    He's been rallying against this for months. No one has ever done this. He also failed to authorize any federal/military presence to secure the Capitol. He was derelict in duty.

    Now let's get into his speech...Here is the transcript from Jan 6th. I'll highlight some parts of it.

    Donald Trump Speech "Save America" Rally Transcript January 6

    Donald Trump: The media will not show the magnitude of this crowd. Even I, when I turned on today, I looked, and I saw thousands of people here, but you d...
    www.rev.com www.rev.com

    His opening lines, after talking about the crowd size (and likely lying about how big)
    ...
    But it would be really great if we could be covered fairly by the media. The media is the biggest problem we have as far as I’m concerned, single biggest problem, the fake news and the big tech. Big tech is now coming into their own. We beat them four years ago. We surprised them. We took them by surprise and this year, they rigged an election. They rigged it like they’ve never rigged an election before. By the way, last night, they didn’t do a bad job either, if you notice. I’m honest. I just, again, I want to thank you. It’s just a great honor to have this kind of crowd and to be before you. Hundreds of thousands of American patriots are committed to the honesty of our elections and the integrity of our glorious Republic. All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical left Democrats, which is what they’re doing and stolen by the fake news media. That’s what they’ve done and what they’re doing. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved.

    Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about.     To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal. Today I will lay out just some of the evidence proving that we won this election, and we won it by a landslide. This was not a close election. I say sometimes jokingly, but there’s no joke about it, I’ve been in two elections. I won them both and the second one, I won much bigger than the first. Almost 75 million people voted for our campaign, the most of any incumbent president by far in the history of our country, 12 million more people than four years ago. I was told by the real pollsters, we do have real pollsters. They know that we were going to do well, and we were going to win. What I was told, if I went from 63 million, which we had four years ago to 66 million, there was no chance of losing. Well, we didn’t go to 66. We went to 75 million and they say we lost. We didn’t lose.

    By the way, does anybody believe that Joe had 80 million votes? Does anybody believe that? He had 80 million computer votes. It’s a disgrace.     There’s never been anything like that. You could take third world countries. Just take a look, take third world countries. Their elections are more honest than what we’ve been going through in this country. It’s a disgrace. It’s a disgrace. Even when you look at last night, they’re all running around like chickens with their heads cut off with boxes. Nobody knows what the hell is going on. There’s never been anything like this. We will not let them silence your voices. We’re not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen.

    Crowd: (07:11)
    Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!


    John is one of the most brilliant lawyers in the country, and he looked at this and he said, ” What an absolute disgrace, that this could be happening to our constitution.” He looked at Mike Pence, and I hope Mike is going to do the right thing.


    I hope so. I hope so because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election. All he has to do    . This is from the number one or certainly one of the top constitutional lawyers in our country. He has the absolute right to do it. We’re supposed to protect our country, support our country, support our constitution, and protect our constitution. States want to revote. The States got defrauded. They were given false information. They voted on it. Now they want to recertify. They want it back. All Vice-President Pence has to do is send it back to the States to recertify, and we become president, and you are the happiest people.

    (My notes.. this part is just stupid below)

    By the way, this goes all the way back past the Washington monument. Do you believe this? Look at this. Unfortunately, they gave the press the prime seats. I can’t stand that. No, but you look at that behind. I wish they’d flip those cameras and look behind you. That is the most amazing sight. When they make a mistake, you get to see it on television. Amazing, amazing, all the way back. Don’t worry. We will not take the name off the Washington monument. We will not. Cancel culture. They wanted to get rid of the Jefferson Memorial, either take it down or just put somebody else in there. I don’t think that’s going to happen. It damn well better not. Although with this administration, if this happens, it could happen. You’ll see some really bad things happen.


    They’ll knock out Lincoln too, by the way. They’ve been taking his statue down, but then we signed a little law. You hurt our monuments, you hurt our heroes, you go to jail for 10 years and everything stopped.     Did you notice that? It stopped. It all stopped. They could use Rudy back in New York City. Rudy, they could use you. Your city is going to hell. They want Rudy Giuliani back in New York. We’ll get a little younger version of Rudy. Is that okay, Rudy?

    We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s Capitol for one very, very basic and simple reason, to save our democracy. Most candidates on election evening, and of course this thing goes on so long, they still don’t have any idea what the votes are. We still have congressional seats under review. They have no idea. They’ve totally lost control. They’ve used the pandemic as a way of defrauding the people in a proper election. But when you see this and when you see what’s happening, number one, they all say, “Sir, we’ll never let it happen again.” I said, “That’s good, but what about eight weeks ago?” They try and get you to go. They say, “Sir, in four years, you’re guaranteed.” I said, “I’m not interested right now. Do me a favor, go back eight weeks. I want to go back eight weeks. Let’s go back eight week.” We want to go back, and we want to get this right because we’re going to have somebody in there that should not be in there and our country will be destroyed, and we’re not going to stand for that.

    For years, Democrats have gotten away with election fraud and weak Republicans, and that’s what they are. There’s so many weak Republicans. We have great ones, Jim Jordan, and some of these guys. They’re out there fighting the House. Guys are fighting, but it’s incredible. Many of the Republicans, I helped them get in. I helped them get elected. I helped Mitch get elected. I could name 24 of them, let’s say. I won’t bore you with it, and then all of a sudden you have something like this. It’s like, “Gee, maybe I’ll talk to the president sometime later.” No, it’s amazing. The weak Republicans, they’re pathetic Republicans and that’s what happens. If this happened to the Democrats, there’d be hell all over the country going on. There’d be hell all over the country. But just remember this. You’re stronger, you’re smarter. You’ve got more going than anybody, and they try and demean everybody having to do with us, and you’re the real people. You’re the people that built this nation. You’re not the people that tore down our nation.

    ....

    But this year using the pretext of the China virus and the scam of mail-in ballots, Democrats attempted the most brazen and outrageous election theft. There’s never been anything like this. It’s a pure theft in American history, everybody knows it. That election, our election was over at 10:00 in the evening. We’re leading Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes, and then late in the evening or early in the morning, boom, these explosions of and bullshirt, and all of a sudden. All of a sudden it started to happen.

    ....


    Our media is not free. It’s not fair. It suppresses thought. It suppresses speech, and it’s become the enemy of the people. It’s become the enemy of the people. It’s the biggest problem we have in this country. No third world countries would even attempt to do what we caught them doing and you’ll hear about that in just a few minutes. Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer, and we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. We’re going to have to fight much harder and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. If he doesn’t, that will be a sad day for our country because you’re sworn to uphold our constitution. Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. After this, we’re going to walk down and I’ll be there with you. We’re going to walk down. We’re going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.

    (My notes, this is his CYA move)

    We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections, but whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time, far longer than this four-year period. We’ve set it on a much straighter course, a much … I thought four more years. I thought it would be easy. We created-

    (brags about multiple accomplishments, mostly embellished)

    Today, we see a very important event though, because right over there, right there, we see the event going to take place. And I’m going to be watching, because history is going to be made. We’re going to see whether or not we have great and courageous leaders or whether or not we have leaders that should be ashamed of themselves throughout history, throughout eternity, they’ll be ashamed. And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget. With only three of the seven states in question, we win the presidency of the United States.

    I want to thank the more than 140 members of the House. Those are warriors. They’re over there working like you’ve never seen before, studying, talking, actually going all the way back, studying the roots of the Constitution, because they know we have the right to send a bad vote that was illegally got, they gave these people bad things to vote for and they voted, because what did they know? And then when they found out a few weeks later… Again, it took them four years to devise history. And the only unhappy person in the United States, single most unhappy, is Hillary Clinton because she said, “Why didn’t you do this for me four years ago? Why didn’t you do this for me four years ago? Change the votes! 10,000 in Michigan. You could have changed the whole thing!” But she’s not too happy. You notice you don’t see her anymore. What happened? Where is Hillary? Where is she?

    But I want to thank all of those congressmen and women. I also want to thank our 13 most courageous members of the US Senate, Senator Ted Cruz, Senator Ron Johnson, Senator Shadowless, Kelly Loeffler. And Kelly Loeffler, I’ll tell you, she’s been so great. She works so hard. So let’s give her and David a little special head, because it was rigged against them. Let’s give her and David. Kelly Loeffler, David Perdue. They fought a good race. They never had a shot. That equipment should never have been allowed to be used, and I was telling these people don’t let them use this stuff. Marsha Blackburn, terrific person. Mike Braun, Indiana. Disinvested, great guy. Bill Hagerty, John Kennedy, James Lankford, Cynthia Lummis. Tommy Tuberville, to the coach. And Roger Marshall. We want to thank them, senators that stepped up, we want to thank them.


    As you know the media is constantly asserted the outrageous lie that there was no evidence of widespread fraud. You ever see these people? “While there is no evidence of fraud…” Oh, really? Well, I’m going to read you pages. I hope you don’t get bored listening to it. Promise? Don’t get bored listening to it, all those hundreds of thousands of people back there. Move them up, please. Yeah. All these people don’t get bored. Don’t get angry at me because you’re going to get bored because it’s so much. The American people do not believe the corrupt fake news anymore. They have ruined their reputation.


    But it used to be that they’d argue with me, I’d fight. So I’d fight, they’d fight. I’d fight, they’d fight. Boop-boop. You’d believe me, you’d believe them. Somebody comes out. They had their point of view, I had my point of view. But you’d have an argument. Now what they do is they go silent. It’s called suppression. And that’s what happens in a communist country. That’s what they do. They suppress. You don’t fight with them anymore, unless it’s a bad. They have a little bad story about me, they’ll make it 10 times worse and it’s a major headline. But Hunter Biden, they don’t talk about him. What happened to Hunter? Where’s Hunter? Where is Hunter? They don’t talk about him.


    Now watch all the sets will go off. Well, they can’t do that because they get good ratings. The ratings are too good. Now where is Hunter? And how come Joe was allowed to give a billion dollars of money to get rid of the prosecutor in Ukraine? How does that happen? I’d ask you that question. How does that happen? Can you imagine if I said that? If I said that it would be a whole different ball game. And how come Hunter gets three and a half million dollars from the Mayor of Moscow’s wife, and gets hundreds of thousands of dollars to sit on an energy board even though he admits he has no knowledge of energy, and millions of dollars up front, and how come they go into China and they leave with billions of dollars to manage? “Have you managed money before?” “No, I haven’t.” “Oh, that’s good. Here’s about 3 billion.”

    No, they don’t talk about that. No, we have a corrupt media. They’ve gone silent. They’ve gone dead. I now realize how good it was if you go back 10 years. I realized how good, even though I didn’t necessarily love him, I realized how good it was like a cleansing motion. But we don’t have that anymore. We don’t have a fair media anymore. It’s suppression and you have to be very careful with that. And they’ve lost all credibility in this country. We will not be intimidated into accepting the hoaxes and the lies that we’ve been forced to believe over the past several weeks. We’ve amassed overwhelming evidence about a fake election. This is the presidential election. Last night was a little bit better because of the fact that we had a lot of eyes watching one specific state, but they cheated like hell anyway.

    ....

    In every single swing state, local officials, state officials, almost all Democrats made illegal and unconstitutional changes to election procedures without the mandated approvals by the state legislatures, that these changes paved the way for fraud on a scale never seen before. And I think we’d go a long way outside of our country when I say that.

    ....

    In Pennsylvania, the Democrat Secretary of State and the Democrat State Supreme Court justices illegally abolished the signature verification requirements just 11 days prior to the election. So think of what they did. No longer is there signature verification. Oh, that’s okay. We want voter ID by the way. But no longer is their signature verification, 11 days before the election! They say, “We don’t want it.” You know why they don’t want it? Because they want to cheat. That’s the only reason. Who would even think of that? We don’t want to verify a signature? There were over 205,000 more ballots counted in Pennsylvania. Now think of this. You had 205,000 more ballots than you had voters. That means you had 200… Where did they come from? You know where they came from? Somebody’s imagination. Whatever they needed. So in Pennsylvania you had 205,000 more votes than you had voters! And it’s the number is actually much greater than that now. That was as of a week ago. And this is a mathematical impossibility, unless you want to say it’s a total fraud. So Pennsylvania was defrauded.


    Over 8000 ballots in Pennsylvania were cast by people whose names and dates of birth match individuals who died in 2020 and prior to the election.     Think of that. Dead people! Lots of dead people, thousands. And some dead people actually requested an application. That bothers me even more. Not only are they voting, they want an application to vote. One of them was 29 years ago died. It’s incredible.

    Over 14,000 ballots were cast by out-of-state voters. So these are voters that don’t live in the state. And by the way, these numbers are what they call outcome determinative. Meaning these numbers far surpass… I lost by a very little bit. These numbers are massive. Massive. More than 10,000 votes in Pennsylvania were illegally counted, even though they were received after Election Day. In other words, “They were received after Election Day, let’s count them anyway!” And what they did in many cases is they did fraud. They took the date and they moved it back, so that it no longer is after Election Day. And more than 60,000 ballots in Pennsylvania were reported received back. They got back before they were ever supposedly mailed out. In other words, you got the ballot back before you mailed it!

    ...

    (Note, did he just call all Democratic voters stupid?)

    You will have a president who lost all of these states, or you will have a president to put it another way, who was voted on by a bunch of stupid people who lost all of these things. You will have an illegitimate president, that’s what you’ll have. And we can’t let that happen. These are the facts that you won’t hear from the fake news media. It’s all part of the suppression effort. They don’t want to talk about it. They don’t want to talk about it. In fact, when I started talking about that, I guarantee you a lot of the television sets and a lot of those cameras went off and that’s how a lot of cameras back there. But a lot of them went off, but these are the things you don’t hear about. You don’t hear what you just heard. And I’m going to go over a few more states. But you don’t hear it by the people who want to deceive you and demoralize you and control you, big tech, media.


    And just like the radical left tries to blacklist you on social media, every time I put out a tweet, even if it’s totally correct, totally correct. I get a flag. I get a flag. And they also don’t let you get out. On Twitter, it’s very hard to come on to my account. It’s very hard to get out a message. They don’t let the message get out nearly like they should, but I’ve had many people say, “I can’t get on your Twitter.” I don’t care about Twitter. Twitter is bad news. They’re all bad news. But you know what? If you want to get out of message. And if you want to go through big tech, social media, they are really, if you’re a conservative, if you’re a Republican, if you have a big voice, I guess they call it shadow ban. Shadow ban. They shadow ban you and it should be illegal. I’ve been telling these Republicans get rid of Section 230.

    And for some reason, Mitch and the group, they don’t want to put it in there. And they don’t realize that that’s going to be the end of the Republican party as we know it, but it’s never going to be the end of us, never. Let them get out. Let the weak ones get out. This is a time for strength. They also want to indoctrinate your children in school by teaching them things that aren’t so. They want to indoctrinate your children. It’s all part of the comprehensive assault on our democracy and the American people to finally standing up and saying, “No.” This crowd is again a testament to it. I did no advertising. I did nothing. You do have some groups that are big supporters. I want to thank that Amy and everybody, we have some incredible supporters, incredible, but we didn’t do anything. This just happened.

    (He goes over a list of falsehoods for each swing state... not copying all of it).

    So, I mean, I could go on and on about this fraud that took place in every state and all of these legislatures want this back. I don’t want to do it to you because I love you and it’s freezing out here, but I could just go on forever. I can tell you this…

    It’s a disgrace that the United States of America, tens of millions of people are allowed to go vote without so much as even showing identification. In no state is there any question or effort made to verify the identity, citizenship, residency, or eligibility of the votes cast. The Republicans have to get tougher. You’re not going to have a Republican party if you don’t get tougher. They want to play so straight, they want to play so, “Sir, yes, the United States, the constitution doesn’t allow me to send them back to the States.” Well, I say, “Yes, it does because the constitution says you have to protect our country and you have to protect our constitution and you can’t vote on fraud,” and fraud breaks up everything, doesn’t it? When you catch somebody in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules. So I hope Mike has the courage to do what he has to do. And I hope he doesn’t listen to the RINOs and the stupid people that he’s listening to. It is also widely understood that the voter rolls are crammed full of non-citizens, felons and people who have moved out of state and individuals who are otherwise ineligible to vote. Yet Democrats oppose every effort to clean up their voter rolls. They don’t want to clean them up, they are loaded. And how many people here know other people that when the hundreds of thousands and then millions of ballots got sent out, got three, four, five, six, and I heard one who got seven ballots. And then they say, “You didn’t quite make it, sir.” We won. We won in a landslide. This was a landslide.


    They said, “It’s not American to challenge the election.” This is the most corrupt election in the history, maybe of the world. You know, you could go third world countries, but I don’t think they had hundreds of thousands of votes and they don’t have voters for them. I mean, no matter where you go, nobody would think this. In fact, it’s so egregious, it’s so bad, that a lot of people don’t even believe it. It’s so crazy that people don’t even believe it. It can’t be true. So they don’t believe it. This is not just a matter of domestic politics, this is a matter of national security. So today, in addition to challenging the certification of the election, I’m calling on Congress and the state legislatures to quickly pass sweeping election reforms, and you better do it before we have no country left. Today is not the end. It’s just the beginning.


    With your help over the last four years, we built the greatest political movement in the history of our country and nobody even challenges that. I say that over and over, and I never get challenged by the fake news, and they challenge almost everything we say. But our fight against the big donors, big media, big tech and others is just getting started. This is the greatest in history. There’s never been a movement like that. You look back there all the way to the Washington Monument. It’s hard to believe. We must stop the steal and then we must ensure that such outrageous election fraud never happens again, can never be allowed to happen again, but we’re going forward. We’ll take care of going forward. We got to take care of going back. Don’t let them talk, “Okay, well we promise,” I’ve had a lot of people, “Sir, you’re at 96% for four years.” I said, “I’m not interested right now. I’m interested in right there.”

    With your help we will finally pass powerful requirements for voter ID. You need an ID to cash your check. You need an ID to go to a bank, to buy alcohol, to drive a car. Every person should need to show an ID in order to cast your most important thing, a vote. We will also require proof of American citizenship in order to vote in American elections. We just had a good victory in court on that one, actually. We will ban ballot harvesting and prohibit the use of unsecured drop boxes to commit rampant fraud. These drop boxes are fraudulent. There for, they get… They disappear and then all of a sudden they show up. It’s fraudulent. We will stop the practice of universal, unsolicited mail-in balloting. We will clean up the voter rolls that ensure that every single person who cast a vote is a citizen of our country, a resident of the state in which they vote and their vote is cast in a lawful and honest manner. We will restore the vital civic tradition of in-person voting on election day so that voters can be fully informed when they make their choice. We will finally hold big tech accountable and if these people had courage and guts, they would get rid of Section 230, something that no other company, no other person in America, in the world, has.


    All of these tech monopolies are going to abuse their power and interfere in our elections and it has to be stopped and the Republicans have to get a lot tougher and so should the Democrats. They should be regulated, investigated and brought to justice under the fullest extent of the law. They’re totally breaking the law. Together we will drain the Washington swamp and we will clean up the corruption in our nation’s capital. We have done a big job on it, but you think it’s easy, it’s a dirty business. It’s a dirty business. You have a lot of bad people out there. Despite everything we’ve been through, looking out all over this country and seeing fantastic crowds, although this I think is our all time record. I think you have 250, 000 people. 250,000.

    Looking out at all the amazing patriots here today, I have never been more confident in our nation’s future. Well, I have to say we have to be a little bit careful. That’s a nice statement, but we have to be a little careful with that statement. If we allow this group of people to illegally take over our country, because it’s illegal when the votes are illegal, when the way they got there is illegal, when the States that vote are given false and fraudulent information. We are the greatest country on earth and we are headed, and were headed, in the right direction. You know, the wall is built, we’re doing record numbers at the wall. Now they want to take down the wall. Let’s let everyone flow in. Let’s let everybody flow in.

    We did a great job in the wall. Remember the wall? They said it could never be done. One of the largest infrastructure projects we’ve ever had in this country and it’s had a tremendous impact and we got rid of catch and release, we got rid of all of the stuff that we had to live with. But now the caravans, they think Biden’s getting in, the caravans are forming again. They want to come in again and rip off our country. Can’t let it happen. As this enormous crowd shows, we have truth and justice on our side. We have a deep and enduring love for America in our hearts. We love our country. We have overwhelming pride in this great country, and we have it deep in our souls. Together we are determined to defend and preserve government of the people, by the people and for the people.


    Our brightest days are before us, our greatest achievements still wait. I think one of our great achievements will be election security because nobody until I came along, had any idea how corrupt our elections were. And again, most people would stand there at 9:00 in the evening and say, “I want to thank you very much,” and they go off to some other life, but I said, “Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.” And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.

    Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans for our movement, for our children and for our beloved country and I say this, despite all that’s happened, the best is yet to come.

    So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… The Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

    So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I want to thank you all. God bless you and God bless America. Thank you all for being here, this is incredible. Thank you very much. Thank you.
    Click to expand...

    Does he say, let's march to the Capitol and break in? No. Does he rile them up with a bunch of stuff about fraud, taking their country back, stopping the fraud, show strength, you can't let this happen, the media is lying to you and trying to control you, etc... uh, yeah.

    Almost all of those claims were shut down in court.. as in they were found lacking merit or evidence. Or, in many cases, there was hard evidence to the contrary.

    Then, you can add back in the fact that he basically just watched it happen. At any moment, he could have pacified the crowd.. either personally, or with force.
     
    wardorican said:
    Really?

    It is not safe to allow someone to run who has bucked the law, rules, and shows no fitness to serve. He was given a lot of opportunities. Since the Ukraine situation, and now with this Capitol situation, it's too much... I'll get into that below.

    OK, let's start with the fact he's a giant butt crevasse in public, so it's easy to see him being disliked. This can't be ignored. Not a crime, but it tilts the balance a little.

    Let's also remind ourselves that US politics, the President the highest office in the land, separate from Congress, and the peaceful relinquishment of that power when their term ends is a critical part of our democracy.

    Let us also remind ourselves, that since Lincoln won election, the 'loser' has reached out to congradulate the winner and speak to the public about getting behind the new president. The modern "concession speech" actually started in 1896 and has happened for every single election, until now. Every. Single. Election. Sometimes a couple weeks late (in some close elections), others a day late, but always happened. It's important for the country.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...used-to-concede-heres-why-that-matters/#close you have to register to read it.

    The assault on the truth has been beyond pale. The idea that this election was stolen is a brazen lie.

    He's been rallying against this for months. No one has ever done this. He also failed to authorize any federal/military presence to secure the Capitol. He was derelict in duty.

    Now let's get into his speech...Here is the transcript from Jan 6th. I'll highlight some parts of it.

    Donald Trump Speech "Save America" Rally Transcript January 6

    Donald Trump: The media will not show the magnitude of this crowd. Even I, when I turned on today, I looked, and I saw thousands of people here, but you d...
    www.rev.com www.rev.com

    His opening lines, after talking about the crowd size (and likely lying about how big)


    Does he say, let's march to the Capitol and break in? No. Does he rile them up with a bunch of stuff about fraud, taking their country back, stopping the fraud, show strength, you can't let this happen, the media is lying to you and trying to control you, etc... uh, yeah.

    Almost all of those claims were shut down in court.. as in they were found lacking merit or evidence. Or, in many cases, there was hard evidence to the contrary.

    Then, you can add back in the fact that he basically just watched it happen. At any moment, he could have pacified the crowd.. either personally, or with force.
    Click to expand...


    well said
     
    Here's my take on what happened with Trump. I think he started his presidency with good intentions, but he has a narcissistic need for validation and approval. When he didn't receive that from the Left, he quickly chose sides and became a president for half of America. He then started feuding with the media and national security organizations, calling them, the enemy of the people, fake news, etc and the toxicity around everything multiplied. He then lost the moderates and developed a white knight syndrome for the fringe right.

    To me, the beginning of the end was his televised debate with Biden. It was largely about fringe right talking points delivered in a distasteful and unhinged manner. I watched almost every one of his rallies in full and they were mostly about the communists/socialists coming for you and he was the only thing that stood in their way. When called to simmer down the Capitol protest, he starts the video with essentially, it was the heist of the century!

    My very Trumpist family now believes we're in the biblical End Times, that Kamala is a literal demon (her eyes changed color in a video), antifa raided the capitol in a false flag operation, and Biden won because God is punishing America for losing faith. Tensions are high and these are the types of thought processes we are dealing with. Trump consistently validates these things, despite mountains of evidence against it.

    I wanted Trump to do well, but he didn't. He failed in grand fashion. We must stop the madness and move back to normalcy.
     
    NoPartyMike said:
    Here's my take on what happened with Trump. I think he started his presidency with good intentions, but he has a narcissistic need for validation and approval. When he didn't receive that from the Left, he quickly chose sides and became a president for half of America. He then started feuding with the media and national security organizations, calling them, the enemy of the people, fake news, etc and the toxicity around everything multiplied. He then lost the moderates and developed a white knight syndrome for the fringe right.

    To me, the beginning of the end was his televised debate with Biden. It was largely about fringe right talking points delivered in a distasteful and unhinged manner. I watched almost every one of his rallies in full and they were mostly about the communists/socialists coming for you and he was the only thing that stood in their way. When called to simmer down the Capitol protest, he starts the video with essentially, it was the heist of the century!

    My very Trumpist family now believes we're in the biblical End Times, that Kamala is a literal demon (her eyes changed color in a video), antifa raided the capitol in a false flag operation, and Biden won because God is punishing America for losing faith. Tensions are high and these are the types of thought processes we are dealing with. Trump consistently validates these things, despite mountains of evidence against it.

    I wanted Trump to do well, but he didn't. He failed in grand fashion. We must stop the madness and move back to normalcy.
    Click to expand...


    Disagree with this

    there were never any good intentions

    Starting with the day he announced his candidacy by calling Mexicans rapists and drug dealers and went from there

    Gold Star families, mocking the disabled reporter, mocking John McCain (and all POWs), the Access Hollywood tape, all teh bullying and name calling

    His campaign wasn't run on good intentions in any way

    Day one of his presidency lying about the crowd size that anyone with eyes could see was a lie, lying about the weather about how it stopped raining, and the clouds parted and a rainbow fell down on him

    To some extent there is always a difference between campaigning candidate and elected politician

    You can be disappointed that Trump didn't rise to the occasion, that he didn't rise to or embrace the dignity of the office

    But nothing he showed during the primaries or the campaign showed that he was even capable of it

    This isn't a bait and switch, this isn't a Jekyll and Hyde - He didn't run an Obama campaign and deliver a Trump presidency

    remember the Maya Angelou quote - "when people tell you who they are believe them"

    Trump voters don't really have the luxury of claiming "This isn't what I signed up for"

    To be fair, they may not have wanted the chaos,

    They may have signed up for what @DaveXA referred to as the "good policies",

    They may have signed up for conservative judges, or tax cuts or a wall or whatever

    But they dam well knew that the chaos came with it as a package deal
     
    Last edited:
    NoPartyMike said:
    Here's my take on what happened with Trump. I think he started his presidency with good intentions, but he has a narcissistic need for validation and approval. When he didn't receive that from the Left, he quickly chose sides and became a president for half of America. He then started feuding with the media and national security organizations, calling them, the enemy of the people, fake news, etc and the toxicity around everything multiplied. He then lost the moderates and developed a white knight syndrome for the fringe right.

    To me, the beginning of the end was his televised debate with Biden. It was largely about fringe right talking points delivered in a distasteful and unhinged manner. I watched almost every one of his rallies in full and they were mostly about the communists/socialists coming for you and he was the only thing that stood in their way. When called to simmer down the Capitol protest, he starts the video with essentially, it was the heist of the century!

    My very Trumpist family now believes we're in the biblical End Times, that Kamala is a literal demon (her eyes changed color in a video), antifa raided the capitol in a false flag operation, and Biden won because God is punishing America for losing faith. Tensions are high and these are the types of thought processes we are dealing with. Trump consistently validates these things, despite mountains of evidence against it.

    I wanted Trump to do well, but he didn't. He failed in grand fashion. We must stop the madness and move back to normalcy.
    Click to expand...
    He started his presidency lying about crowd size, and never stopped the lying and gaslighting. Literally nothing was too great or too small for him to lie about, and that so many people still believe his lies is both sad and maddening. His party meanwhile has done nothing but enable him for the last four years.

    And this is where it's taken us.
    1610478878408.png
     
    Trump hasn’t had good intentions since his Dad hired him his first bodyguard at 8 years old. That was the point he realized that as long as you had a guy with a gun near you that you could do whatever you wanted with no consequences.

    His entire life has been lived like a person who doesn’t understand the concept of consequences. He has been a terrible human being every day of his life and that didn’t magically change in 2016. In fact it got worse because millions of Americans told him not only does being a scum bucket not matter, we are going to celebrate it.

    He was a worthless human being that didn’t care about anything but himself before he became President. Winning the White House just validated his belief that it didn’t matter.
     
    McConnell got his judges. Plus, this is a way to get a little revenge for losing the Senate majority.
     

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