Impeachment Round Two (11 Viewers)

[Yggdrasill]

I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.

 

[efil4]

Where was "unity" when they filed more than 60 legal actions (all of them dismissed) to void millions of Americans' votes? Where was "unity" when he refused to concede after the vote was certified and every other Republican official of any consequence recognized Biden's win? Where was "unity" when he unleashed a mob on the U.S. Capitol?

It's such a specious and cowardly argument.

I hate to say it. but,

"its only OK when we do it"

But seriously, this is what it has devolved to. Listening to Ted Cruz a handful of times recently vs 2014/15/16 is simply amazing to me. Someone posted a tweet of Fox news ( and handful of elected folks ) in a sort of then/now.

Its insane.

 

[DaveXA]

I'm having a really hard time understanding how we shouldn't impeach the guy who made an endless string of false accusations about election integrity, misleading his supporters and damaging democratic institutions in the United States before inciting an unprecedented attack on on the U.S. Capitol where the top three officials in the presidential order of succession were performing an essential constitutional function in the transfer of power because "we need unity."

I'm really shocked that more Republicans are not demanding Trump's resignation. This is bigger than partisan politics.

 

[zztop]

Being in a pro forma session (i think), it only takes one objection. You need unanimous consent to introduce legislation during pro forma sessions iirc.

For me there should be no excuse for any (R) opposing it. And yet I am half astounded how anyone is still defending trump's actions, but also half not surprise any still do.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I'm livid and so are most of the Conservatives I know. It's not a Q party fest in the Right circles, trust me. We're po'ed too. This isn't who we are or what we represent. We gave Trump every benefit of the doubt, hoped he would be a welcomed change of pace to a stale political America. Instead, he's going out like the Hindenburg. Along with it, goes the Presidency, the Senate, and any idea of having a non-political presidential candidate ever again. The Conservative image is completely trashed, and tied to Trump and his merry band of psychos. Now I know how Muslims feel being bundled with terrorism. What a complete forking disaster!

I don't feel that Trump trashed conservatism. He's really not a traditional conservative. Or even conservative at all. But conservatives who looked the other way because he pandered to a few of their interests (SC nominations), should be ashamed.

 

[wardorican]

I'm really shocked that more Republicans are not demanding Trump's resignation. This is bigger than partisan politics.

I'm not. They know their crowd.

Go back to John McCain correcting that little old lady in a town hall claiming that Obama was a Muslim. Once he dismissed her and told her he's actually a Christian born in the US (which is the truth), he lost her and the room.

That's the day, I saw all of the misinformation on Fox and far more nefarious 'news' outlets start to work on the addled minds of older GOP voters (and beyond now).

 

[Booker]

I'm having a really hard time understanding how we shouldn't impeach the guy who made an endless string of false accusations about election integrity, misleading his supporters and damaging democratic institutions in the United States before inciting an unprecedented attack on on the U.S. Capitol where the top three officials in the presidential order of succession were performing an essential constitutional function in the transfer of power because "we need unity."

Well said, Chuck.

 

[superchuck500]

I don't feel that Trump trashed conservatism. He's really not a traditional conservative. Or even conservative at all. But conservatives who looked the other way because he pandered to a few of their interests (SC nominations), should be ashamed.

Populist authoritarian culture-warriors took over the GOP (Trump emerging as their leader but it was already happening). The Reagan conservatives are basically powerless while the populists use their label.

 

[Lapaz]

Being in a pro forma session (i think), it only takes one objection. You need unanimous consent to introduce legislation during pro forma sessions iirc.

I think they can vote on the 25th amendment motion later this week. The 25th allows either a majority of the cabinet OR the vice president along with a committee from congress to oust the president. Congress legislate to set-up a congressional commission to work with Pence, which would alleviate Pence from having to convince the cabinet to oust the president. I think I think convincing 2/3rds of congress to agree to oust the president would be easier than getting his loyalist in his cabinet to oust him.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I think Trump shows that a really large number of people who have been claiming to be conservatives were not attracted to the ideology out of love or respect for the Constitution, rule of law, fiscal conservatism, adherence to classical virtues, or a number of other professed tenets of conservatism.

Ie, they never had a philosophical loyalty to conservatism -- it was something else they liked about the movement.

 

[DaveXA]

I think they can vote on the 25th amendment motion later this week. The 25th allows either a majority of the cabinet OR the vice president along with a committee from congress to oust the president. Congress legislate to set-up a congressional commission to work with Pence, which would alleviate Pence from having to convince the cabinet to oust the president. I think I think convincing 2/3rds of congress to agree to oust the president would be easier than getting his loyalist in his cabinet to oust him.

Didn't realize that was an option. That seems feasible. If Pence is spearheading the effort, I think that would convince a lot more Republicans to get on board than doing an impeachment trial.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

The 'Y U NO UNITY?!?!' shtick is just the latest GOP talking point. It's laughably obvious given how many GOP Congressman and conservative media types are parroting it now.

 

[DaveXA]

The 'Y U NO UNITY?!?!' shtick is just the latest GOP talking point. It's laughably obvious given how many GOP Congressman and conservative media types are parroting it now.

If you actually want unity, get rid of the dolt in office. 25th or impeach him. Then you might actually be able to make some reasonable deals. The alternative is to be fully frozen out of the legislative process for at least 2 years.

Regardless, this isn't a political issue. This about having the moral courage to stand up to Trump and eject him completely from the Republican party and from American politics completely.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

If you actually want unity, get rid of the dolt in office. 25th or impeach him. Then you might actually be able to make some reasonable deals. The alternative is to be fully frozen out of the legislative process for at least 2 years.

Regardless, this isn't a political issue. This about having the moral courage to stand up to Trump and eject him completely from the Republican party and from American politics completely.

Precisely. If Obama had sicked a mob of leftists on the Capitol I'd be calling for the same thing. It's amazing what some in the GOP will sweep under the rug. And I still can't understand why the party doesn't want to rid itself of Trump. Perhaps it fears if it overtly moves against Trump then a significant portion of the GOP base will stop voting for them ensuring Democratic victories?

 

[DaveXA]

Precisely. If Obama had sicked a mob of leftists on the Capitol I'd be calling for the same thing. It's amazing what some in the GOP will sweep under the rug. And I still can't understand why the party doesn't want to rid itself of Trump. Perhaps it fears if it overtly moves against Trump then a significant portion of the GOP base will stop voting for them ensuring Democratic victories?

And that fear is understandable, but don't they realize what the alternative is? Is insurrection and inciting a mob to not only riot, but interrupt a legitimate legal/political process ever acceptable? What have we become? That scares me even more.

 

[JRad]

I wasn’t feeling the unity when Trump spent every speech talking about how a significant part of the country is evil. Where was the unity when my neighbors were getting turned against people anything left of Trumpism?

 

[Incumbent]

And that fear is understandable, but don't they realize what the alternative is? Is insurrection and inciting a mob to not only riot, but interrupt a legitimate legal/political process ever acceptable? What have we become? That scares me even more.

That's why the consequences for the attack on the Capitol have to be severe. We are on the brink of falling to mob rule. There are emerging reports of Republicans not wanting to go against Trump supporters out of fear, not just political, but for their safety and that of their families. And honestly, after the 6th, who can blame them.

I'm as caught up in the anger and frustration over those who won't do their jobs. The posturing and the resignations are the coward's way forward. With these positions come a great deal of responsibility. But it would also be naive to overlook the growing threats our elected officials are facing. We can't dismiss the urgent seriousness of what is building in this country.

What happens if we get to a point where fewer good candidates want to run for office? It just becomes a push towards radicalization.

Trump must be convicted. Everybody who can be established as present inside the Capitol without authorization, must be punished. Those who have been feeding this frenzy over the years and up to the 6th, have to pay a price; professional, economic, criminal, as warranted.

Social media platforms are going to have to take a much more serious approach to how content is reviewed, allowed, and disseminated. Facebook makes reporting a very narrowly defined process, and real time moderator contact isn't available, as far as I can tell.

I don't say any of this thinking enough will happen, and I know there is a lot more to consider and include, but I really do think we are on the precipice of a societal collapse if we aren't careful, diligent, and frankly, lucky. The firsthand glimpses into the Trump base are frightening. I have friends and relatives who are lost to the lies and fear. I'm not sure how we get back from this and not very hopeful that we can. I do think that walking away from this in the name of unity will only seal our dismal fate, though. If people aren't afraid to attack Capitols and openly threaten lawmakers, if a President, and surrogates, can get away with rabble-rousing an insurrection through intentional fearmongering and deceit, then this war is already lost.

 

[Incumbent]

And I know that sounds very bleak, maybe even exaggeratedly so, but the political unrest isn’t happening in a vacuum. There are mounting economic stresses combined with the rise of automation and how that will affect jobs and the working class, and I think it’s increasingly difficult to look ahead with great optimism if we don’t soon get our **** together and figure out how to live together as friends and neighbors.

 

[SaulGoodmanEsq]

And that fear is understandable, but don't they realize what the alternative is? Is insurrection and inciting a mob to not only riot, but interrupt a legitimate legal/political process ever acceptable? What have we become? That scares me even more.

Exactly why I'm retiring to New Zealand... in 20 years... hope the country lasts that long.