Impeachment Round Two (2 Viewers)

Yggdrasill

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I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.
 

J-DONK

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I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.

I really think the 25th amendment is a far better option, and should be used. There is genuine concern about what Trump will do in his last two weeks in office. I never thought this would be a headline.

 
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Yggdrasill

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What are the consequences of invoking the 25th Amendment?

Also, Pence could still pardon Trump, which would NOT be good.
 

DaveXA

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I really think the 25th amendment is a far better option, and should be used. There is genuine concern about what Trump will do in his last two weeks in office. I never thought this would be a headline.


This is just a political stunt by Pelosi. Trump can't arbitrarily and unilaterally launch nukes. No President can. So the public worrying about nukes is pretty silly.
 

Saintamaniac

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I agree. He must be impeached again. Make Republicans go on record now to acquit him again in the face of overwhelming evidence. Make them tell the American people that despite insurrection and inciting violence that resulted in multiple deaths, they feel that trump deserves to go free.
 

Saintamaniac

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What are the consequences of invoking the 25th Amendment?

Also, Pence could still pardon Trump, which would NOT be good.
Trump put Pence's wife and child in danger and Pence has expressed dismay at the lack of loyalty that trump has shown him after everything he has done for him. I don't think Pence pardoning him is something that looks like will happen.
 

Sandman

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From what I have read, Pence doesn't seem open to invoking the 25th Amendment. Also, it is my understanding that invoking the 25th Amendment would not preclude Trump from running for the Presidency in 2024. Impeachment could prevent any future Presidential runs.
 

J-DONK

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J-DONK

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Trump put Pence's wife and child in danger and Pence has expressed dismay at the lack of loyalty that trump has shown him after everything he has done for him. I don't think Pence pardoning him is something that looks like will happen.

How can Pence view this as anything other then himself being setup as the fall guy? Trump put the whole election on Pence being able to make his own election results, or sending the electors back to the state's.
 

DJ1BigTymer

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I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?
The same was true last year, so...

I have zero confidence that 2/3 of the Senate would vote to impeach.
 

Saintamaniac

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How can Pence view this as anything other then himself being setup as the fall guy? Trump put the whole election on Pence being able to make his own election results, or sending the electors back to the state's.
I sincerely hope that trump pins his hopes of a pardon on Pence. I would love nothing more than to watch him cry when Pence stops taking his calls and doesn't pardon him. Pence would have to be the biggest sellout to his family to grant that Peice of work a pardon after putting his family in danger. He'd have to be a bigger feline than Ted Cruz.
 

brandon

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This is just a political stunt by Pelosi. Trump can't arbitrarily and unilaterally launch nukes. No President can. So the public worrying about nukes is pretty silly.
Well actually...
Authorization of a nuclear or strategic attack
Only the president can direct the use of nuclear weapons by U.S. armed forces, through plans like OPLAN 8010-12. The president has unilateral authority as commander-in-chief to order that nuclear weapons be used for any reason at any time.[3][4][5][6][7][8]
 

DaveXA

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Well actually...


He can't unilaterally launch them. He can unilaterally order a launch, but it's not simply press a button and go. Strategic Command would have to implement the launch, Trump would actually have to give them a launch plan, go through a process of explaining the justification for the launch and Strategic Command would actually have to concur.

Ordinarily, Strategic Command isn't at liberty to refuse an order, but in DOD, there is protocol and precedent for refusing an illegal order, which in this case would likely be. If Trump is in a questionable mental state as some have suspected, the commanders will be aware of that and will certainly take that into consideration before any questionable order is heeded.

These people are not robots. They have a conscience, and if it's clearly something that isn't right or legal, they can reject an order.
 

brandon

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He can't unilaterally launch them. He can unilaterally order a launch, but it's not simply press a button and go. Strategic Command would have to implement the launch, Trump would actually have to give them a launch plan, go through a process of explaining the justification for the launch and Strategic Command would actually have to concur.

Ordinarily, Strategic Command isn't at liberty to refuse an order, but in DOD, there is protocol and precedent for refusing an illegal order, which in this case would likely be. If Trump is in a questionable mental state as some have suspected, the commanders will be aware of that and will certainly take that into consideration before any questionable order is heeded.

These people are not robots. They have a conscience, and if it's clearly something that isn't right or legal, they can reject an order.
So your entire plan for preventing a nuclear holocaust is the hope that an illegal order, when given, will be properly identified as such, and ignored?

That’s it? That’s the plan?

How are they to determine if the order is illegal? And how long do they have to research this order to determine it’s veracity? What if it’s a legitimate order and they ignore it and we die because Russia just launched?

And what if Trump subsequently fires the officer refusing his orders and goes down the line to the next officer? How long until he finds his officer willing to launch?
 

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