Impeachment Round Two (1 Viewer)

[Yggdrasill]

I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.

 

[DaveXA]

So your entire plan for preventing a nuclear holocaust is the hope that an illegal order, when given, will be properly identified as such, and ignored?

That’s it? That’s the plan?

How are they to determine if the order is illegal? And how long do they have to research this order to determine it’s veracity? What if it’s a legitimate order and they ignore it and we die because Russia just launched?

And what if Trump subsequently fires the officer refusing his orders and goes down the line to the next officer? How long until he finds his officer willing to launch?

Do you really think the CoComs are that blindingly ignorant to whats happening in DC right now? Really?

 

[Yggdrasill]

So your entire plan for preventing a nuclear holocaust is the hope that an illegal order, when given, will be properly identified as such, and ignored?

That’s it? That’s the plan?

How are they to determine if the order is illegal? And how long do they have to research this order to determine it’s veracity? What if it’s a legitimate order and they ignore it and we die because Russia just launched?

And what it Trump subsequently fires the officer refusing his orders and goes down the line to the next officer? How long until he finds his officer willing to launch?

Part of the plan includes removing Trump from office before a launch order. Also, it takes time to remove people and word would get out. The 25th would come pretty quickly in that instance.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

So your entire plan for preventing a nuclear holocaust is the hope that an illegal order, when given, will be properly identified as such, and ignored?

That’s it? That’s the plan?

How are they to determine if the order is illegal? And how long do they have to research this order to determine it’s veracity? What if it’s a legitimate order and they ignore it and we die because Russia just launched?

And what if Trump subsequently fires the officer refusing his orders and goes down the line to the next officer? How long until he finds his officer willing to launch?

Well the good news in that situation is that if Russia launches, we die whether we retaliate or not. My concern is that our deterrent on the whole isn't functioning as it should. I haven't seen anything out of trump since election day that even hints that he'd even bother to retaliate in the event someone launches a pre-emptive attack. The threat of a response is what keeps everyone at bay and it has been that way since the 60s - without a threat of a response...a bad actor could just roll the dice. He'll sit on his hands and watch the US burn w/ a front row seat.

 

[DaveXA]

Well the good news in that situation is that if Russia launches, we die whether we retaliate or not. My concern is that our deterrent on the whole isn't functioning as it should. I haven't seen anything out of trump since election day that even hints that he'd even bother to retaliate in the event someone launches a pre-emptive attack. The threat of a response is what keeps everyone at bay and it has been that way since the 60s - without a threat of a response...a bad actor could just roll the dice. He'll sit on his hands and watch the US burn w/ a front row seat.

I find that more plausible than the other way around. But that won't likely happen either.

Regardless, I expect all this will be moot in a few days.

 

[DaveXA]

Part of the plan includes removing Trump from office before a launch order. Also, it takes time to remove people and word would get out. The 25th would come pretty quickly in that instance.

Yeah, I'd much rather the 25th and get it done quickly. Impeachment would take longer. While I think it should happen, with less than 2 weeks til inauguration, not sure Congress will get there. Easier said than done.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

So your entire plan for preventing a nuclear holocaust is the hope that an illegal order, when given, will be properly identified as such, and ignored?

That’s it? That’s the plan?

How are they to determine if the order is illegal? And how long do they have to research this order to determine it’s veracity? What if it’s a legitimate order and they ignore it and we die because Russia just launched?

And what if Trump subsequently fires the officer refusing his orders and goes down the line to the next officer? How long until he finds his officer willing to launch?

So you just don't trust the men and women in the US Armed Services at all, do you?

These men and women that have been entrusted with maintaining and operating our nuclear arsenal have gone through extreme background checks, medical clearances and polygraphs before they are even assigned to those positions. And then, they repeat those steps...annually!!! Hell, you couldn't even take Nyquil without being removed from the Personnel Reliability Program (PRP). Then there is the two-man concept and POTUS is not exempt from that process, meaning his order has to be authenticated by SecDef, now SecDef isn't allowed to question that order and their defiance to the order is a dangerous precedent in and of itself, but they are there.

That is just a small snapshot of the steps I can remember for a nuclear weapons strike. Once those steps are complete, then it's all over, until then R-E-L-A-X.

 

[MrScary]

Can't invoke the 25th if the VP won't do it. He won't despite everything that has happened because the GOP has fallen immediately into the "Let's move forward" camp all of a sudden. Even if there are only 2 weeks left, impeaching him isn't 100% about Trump. It's about sending a message to the next, better prepared version of him that comes along and is enabled. Whats the point of checks and balances if we aren't going to levy any? If ANYTHING has ever called for impeachment, this is it.

 

[xpuma20x]

What's to stop him, a few minutes from them acquiring impeachment votes or 25th amendment pushing through, from pardoning himself. The argument can be made all day in regards to if it's legal or not, but if either of the above happens I think he's going to push the boundaries to try every card to assure he walks free after.

 

[The moose]

Whatever takes his ability to run again.

We don't need years of this arse having rallies and staring shirt.

Make it happen or we will not be safe

 

[MT15]

Yeah, I'd much rather the 25th and get it done quickly. Impeachment would take longer. While I think it should happen, with less than 2 weeks til inauguration, not sure Congress will get there. Easier said than done.

ideally, we would use both. The 25th would immediately strip him of power, even if only temporarily. In the four days or so, the impeachment could be well underway.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Can't invoke the 25th if the VP won't do it. He won't despite everything that has happened because the GOP has fallen immediately into the "Let's move forward" camp all of a sudden. Even if there are only 2 weeks left, impeaching him isn't 100% about Trump. It's about sending a message to the next, better prepared version of him that comes along and is enabled. Whats the point of checks and balances if we aren't going to levy any? If ANYTHING has ever called for impeachment, this is it.

Agree 100%.

 

[MT15]

I would answer Republicans with this

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Whatever takes his ability to run again.

We don't need years of this arse having rallies and staring shirt.

Make it happen or we will not be safe

Then impeachment would be the route, even if it takes us into the new administration.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Agreed, lol. But again, people think all he has to do is press a button, and that's not how it works.

Don't you watch movies? I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it works.

But we could just get someone to program the computer to play tic-tac-toe against itself. There. Problem solved.

 

[MT15]

Okay, so this is why Murkowski feels like she can speak freely now

 

[LA - L.A.]

Whatever takes his ability to run again.

That would be impeachment, not the 25th.

 

[The moose]

That would be impeachment, not the 25th.

Then that is what we need to be safe


Here is another thing to think about. That dude ran the longest campaign ever and got his arse handed to him.

I don't want years of this ripping the country in two and calling it a campaign

 

[FullMonte]

What's to stop him, a few minutes from them acquiring impeachment votes or 25th amendment pushing through, from pardoning himself. The argument can be made all day in regards to if it's legal or not, but if either of the above happens I think he's going to push the boundaries to try every card to assure he walks free after.

He can’t pardon in cases of impeachment