Impeachment Round Two (2 Viewers)

[Yggdrasill]

I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.

 

[B4YOU]

 

[The moose]

Well that makes perfect sense he never said a bad thing about Richard Strauss a rapist

 

[DaveXA]

I do think he makes an interesting case that the 25th doesn't apply here because Trump isn't suffering from a medical condition. His actions are clearly impeachable though. Pence trying to convince that Trump shouldn't be impeached isn't persuasive at all.

As stated by others in the other thread, it's conceivable that he's fearing for his own, or family's life. Which is quite plausible after what happened last week.

I think ultimately impeachment is the best way anyway. Get every Congressman and woman on the record. They can't run away from it once the votes are counted.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I wonder how hard it would be to make the case that, psychologically and temperamentally, the President is unable to discharge his sworn duty to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. He has made numerous, unambiguous attempts to subvert it including asking/demanding that Pence unilaterally discard state-certified electoral votes.

 

[Nebaghead]

I wonder how hard it would be to make the case that, psychologically and temperamentally, the President is unable to discharge his sworn duty to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. He has made numerous, unambiguous attempts to subvert it including asking/demanding that Pence unilaterally discard state-certified electoral votes.

That’s the 25th amendment but the VP has to imitate it.

 

[MT15]

His hours long delay in response to pleas for help during the riot certainly speak to being unable to discharge his duties, imo.

 

[J-DONK]

I think the 25th amendment stuff is over. I do think impeachment looks extremely likely. If nothing else Republicans are scared to death at how fast 99% of corporate America has spoken with their wallets. Republicans are not doing the normal whipping to keep everyone in line, and McConnell himself seems in favor of impeachment. My thought process has moved away from will Trump get impeached to what happens to certain members of Congress?

 

[DaveXA]

His hours long delay in response to pleas for help during the riot certainly speak to being unable to discharge his duties, imo.

Not if it was intentional though. He knew what he was doing, which is precisely why it's completely impeachable. I mean, I would have been fine with the 25th, but I'm not sure it would hold up.

 

[MT15]

Yeah, but we don’t need it to hold up in this case. It takes effect immediately, even if Trump challenges it. The time built in for the response to his challenge will take him past the end of his term.

 

[superchuck500]

More GOP support in the House.




Of course the Senate is where it matters, but I don't think the House support is inconsequential - it is a barometer. I also don't think McConnell would put himself out there as supporting the process to purge Trump and then not vote for it . . . and he wouldn't do it if he didn't have his caucus behind him.

 

[MT15]

 

[wardorican]

More GOP support in the House.




Of course the Senate is where it matters, but I don't think the House support is inconsequential - it is a barometer. I also don't think McConnell would put himself out there as supporting the process to purge Trump and then not vote for it . . . and he wouldn't do it if he didn't have his caucus behind him.

Side note. Fred Upton spoke at my high school Graduation. He's been our Congressman for a long time. He mostly comes off as reasonable.

 

[superchuck500]

Tim Scott (SC) has said he won’t convict - which is probably him reading his constituency. So the votes will have to come from those less deep red places (or senators with more spine).

 

[Lapaz]

Didn't realize that was an option. That seems feasible. If Pence is spearheading the effort, I think that would convince a lot more Republicans to get on board than doing an impeachment trial.

Yep, here is the language of the 25th amendment section 4:
“Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide,....”

Congress just needs to create another body via legislation, in lieu of the principals of the cabinet, to execute the 25th amendment. At this point impeachment might be easier, and I prefer it.

 

[JRad]

Tim Scott (SC) has said he won’t convict - which is probably him reading his constituency. So the votes will have to come from those less deep red places (or senators with more spine).

This is very likely Mitch’s last term, too. He’s going to be in his 80s next time he comes up for re-election.

 

[zztop]

Not that the resolution asking Pence to invoke the 25th, but I read only ONE republican sided with the democrats (Rep. Adam Kinzinger) thats pretty sad to be honest


Rep. Tom McClintock, R-Calif., spoke first on behalf of Republicans who voted against the resolution.

“What a sad an ominous way to begin the 117th Congress. Hasn’t this body done enough to divide our country and abuse our Constitution without carrying that damage into the new session?” McClintock said, adding that Trump had “never suggested rampaging the Capitol and disrupting the Congress.”

 

[Dragon]

Ultimately I think this will influence a lot of those who was in the chamber that day

Impeachment is a political act. And we'll have to discuss it in those terms in the next few days. But what happened on January 6 was NOT a political act. It was a crime. Violent. Vicious. Premeditated. Lethal. Everyone who incited it and everyone who committed it are perpetrators. And calls for "unity" cannot be simultaneous excuses for this violence.

To achieve unity, we must also deliver accountability and justice. I am not a prosecutor and cannot try Donald Trump in a court of law. Impeachment is the only means I have available to stop him from inciting further acts of mayhem, bloodshed and insurrection.

That will guide my vote.

And once it's been cast, I will board another flight back home to Illinois -- hopeful that our nation will never again be faced with the threat of death-by-mob-rule, hopeful that I can once again wear my Congressional pin in public spaces and hopeful that we are one step closer to making America safe from anti-democratic lawlessness.

You see, ultimately, it isn't really Donald Trump we're trying to root out here.

It's the disregard and disrespect for our democracy.

In my view, to do so is the surest route to making America America again.

https://us.cnn.com/2021/01/13/opinions/trump-impeachment-capitol-riot-bustos/index.html

 

[DaveXA]

Not that the resolution asking Pence to invoke the 25th, but I read only ONE republican sided with the democrats (Rep. Adam Kinzinger) thats pretty sad to be honest


Rep. Tom McClintock, R-Calif., spoke first on behalf of Republicans who voted against the resolution.

“What a sad an ominous way to begin the 117th Congress. Hasn’t this body done enough to divide our country and abuse our Constitution without carrying that damage into the new session?” McClintock said, adding that Trump had “never suggested rampaging the Capitol and disrupting the Congress.”

Well, I wouldn't read too much into what was essentially a symbolic vote because Pence already clearly stated he wasn't going to invoke. A few Republicans have already stated on the House floor they will vote to impeach Trump and vote against the 25th.