Impeachment Round Two (5 Viewers)

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    Yggdrasill

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    I am in the camp that Trump must -not should- be impeached. If not this President, for this behavior, then what bar would have to be cleared to merit impeachment?

    Impeachment not only sends a signal to the country and the world that fomenting a coup is unacceptable and will be punished, but it also removes much of the threat Trump could pose going forward as, I understand it, he would lose his pension, his access to daily security briefings, free medical care and other amenities and benefits afforded to former Presidents. If impeached, he would not meet the definition of a Former President under the Former Presidents Act. I don't think it is clear whether he would continue to receive Secret Service protection.
     
    BayouSAINTJoe said:
    Meh, he needs to grow a pair and say this publicly and denounce the "stolen election" lie.
    Click to expand...

    I can't believe I'm saying this, because I hate the guy, but McConnell actually has denounced the "stolen election" lie. In pretty forceful terms. After the states certified the election, he came out publicly and announced Biden as President-elect.

    But that's all he's done.
     
    BayouSAINTJoe said:
    Meh, he needs to grow a pair and say this publicly and denounce the "stolen election" lie.
    Click to expand...
    He may not have said it plainly, but it was pretty clear what he thought on Jan 6th, before the Capitol breach.

    We’re debating a step that has never been taken in American history. Whether Congress should overrule the voters and overturn a presidential election. I’ve served 36 years in the Senate. This’ll be the most important vote I’ve ever cast. President Trump claims the election was stolen. The assertions range from specific local allegations to constitutional arguments, to sweeping conspiracy theories. I supported the President’s right to use the legal system. Dozens of lawsuits received hearings in courtrooms all across our country. But over and over the courts rejected these claims, including all star judges, whom the President himself has nominated. Every election we know features some illegality and irregularity, and of course, that’s unacceptable. I support strong State led voting reforms. Last year’s bizarre pandemic procedures must not become the new norm.


    But my colleagues, nothing before us proves illegality anywhere near the massive scale, the massive scale that would have tipped the entire election. Nor can public doubt alone justify a radical break when the doubt itself was incited without any evidence. The Constitution gives us here in Congress a limited role. We cannot simply declare ourselves a National Board of Elections on steroids. The voters, the courts, and the stage have all spoken. They’ve all spoken. If we overrule them, it would damage our Republic forever. This election, actually, was not unusually close. Just in recent history, 1976, 2000 and 2004 were all closer on this one. The Electoral College margin is almost identical to what it was in 2016. This election were overturned by mere allegations from the losing side, our democracy would enter a death spiral. We’d never see the whole nation except an election again. Every four years would be a scramble for power at any cost.
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    He should have acknowledged it after the election was called on the 7th, really. I will take it though.
     
    Roofgardener said:
    And yet at no point did he actually incite them to attack the capitol building ? I mean, people here talk about prosecuting Trump for Insurrection, but... the evidence isn't really there... is it ?
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    FWIW, I don't think you're a troll. But I think you need to dig more deeply and look more broadly.

    You have already received many replies to this. Just because he didn't utter the words "attack the Capitol" does not mean he did not incite the riot. This page has an informative timeline of his actions in the year leading up to Jan 6th.
    www.justsecurity.org

    Incitement Timeline: Year of Trump’s Actions Leading to the Attack on the Capitol

    A highly detailed chronology of the year leading up to the attack on the Capitol.
    www.justsecurity.org www.justsecurity.org

    He laid the groundwork for the attack for a long time by stoking resentment and refusing to condemn violence, such as the attack in Michigan and the plot against Governor Whitmer, or the violent protests by white supremacists; rather, he continued to support and encourage them. He refused to say that he would accept the election results in advance of the election; claimed that the final results were fraudulent with no evidence; did not acknowledge the or comment on the failures of his 60 court filings; relentlessly vilified his political opponents as well as people in his own party who questioned him. He refused to commit to ensuring a peaceful transfer of power. He did not call out prominent supporters who were urging insurrection such as Flynn and Lin Wood.

    In his tepid video message of Jan 6 while the rioting was going on, he did not tell people not to attack members of Congress (just those in "law and order"). He did not say, "I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. I do not want any violence directed at anyone. Attacking the Capitol and disrupting the proceedings is wrong."
    www.rev.com

    Trump Video Telling Protesters at Capitol Building to Go Home: Transcript | Rev

    Donald Trump posted a video to social media telling protestors to "go home now." Read the transcript of his speech announcement here.
    www.rev.com www.rev.com

    His more conciliatory message of Jan 7th clearly condemned the violence, but it reeks of damage control as, by that time, the effort to derail certification had failed. Note that he does not say that the election was legitimate, and that he considered Biden's election legal and legitimate. He called for unity and love but did not remove the thorn of grievance by saying that the election was not stolen.

    Trump is a master manipulator and knows how to connect with his base. He could EASILY have defused the situation with clear, unambiguous messaging but steadfastly refused to do so. In four years, he has never admitted to being wrong about anything, even (especially) the Coronavirus. So yeah, I think the evidence is there.
     
    Last edited:
    There is a reckoning coming in this country and it isn't the one trump supporters were expecting or hoping for. I suspect that there may be more suicides to come by those who suddenly realize what they have done and how they will be looked at. They will slowly realize that they will be remembered by history as TRAITORS; not the patriots they thought themselves to be. More people will be fired, more people will lose businesses and more will lose their freedom. It will dawn on them for what and for whom they threw it all away. It will hit them like a ton of bricks and they will deserve it. I will have as much sympathy for them and their families as I had for the terrorist responsible for 9/11. These people should be stripped of their citizenship and reviled as the traitors that they have shown themselves to be.

    I just wish that Joe OKC, Farb, SFL and all the others who continually tried to rationalized all the crap that trump did and the shirt that they themselves supported would show their faces (if not banned) and answer for the unamerican shirt they espoused here.
     
    Trump’s best option is to get on his Trump jet, fly to Russia, resign, and live out his days as Snowden’s roommate.

    We could even throw in an Emmy and make him Time’s person of the year for the good of the country.
     
    samiam5211 said:
    Trump’s best option is to get on his Trump jet, fly to Russia, resign, and live out his days as Snowden’s roommate.

    We could even throw in an Emmy and make him Time’s person of the year for the good of the country.
    Click to expand...

    With Deutsche Bank and Signature cutting him off I suspect Putin has absolutely no use for Trump anymore. He might be better off in federal prison.
     
    samiam5211 said:
    Trump’s best option is to get on his Trump jet, fly to Russia, resign, and live out his days as Snowden’s roommate.

    We could even throw in an Emmy and make him Time’s person of the year for the good of the country.
    Click to expand...
    Maybe Time could start a new tradition, "Villain of the Year."
     
    Looks like the finally wised up and appreciated this golden opportunity to bury Trump. That and the corporate money drying up...
     
    Saintamaniac said:
    There is a reckoning coming in this country and it isn't the one trump supporters were expecting or hoping for. I suspect that there may be more suicides to come by those who suddenly realize what they have done and how they will be looked at. They will slowly realize that they will be remembered by history as TRAITORS; not the patriots they thought themselves to be. More people will be fired, more people will lose businesses and more will lose their freedom. It will dawn on them for what and for whom they threw it all away. It will hit them like a ton of bricks and they will deserve it. I will have as much sympathy for them and their families as I had for the terrorist responsible for 9/11. These people should be stripped of their citizenship and reviled as the traitors that they have shown themselves to be.

    I just wish that Joe OKC, Farb, SFL and all the others who continually tried to rationalized all the crap that trump did and the shirt that they themselves supported would show their faces (if not banned) and answer for the unamerican shirt they espoused here.
    Click to expand...
    Never took Farb seriously. From his avatars to his refusal to actually discuss policy it was clear to me he was just trolling or, charitably, arguing for its own sake.
     

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