Immigration thread (2 Viewers)

[Zombiewoof]

In keeping with the site's desire to have more conversation based on concepts, ideas and principles, I will be posting a couple of threads in hopes of generating discussion on topics that are relevant no matter who is in office or the news cycle at any point in time.

What are your guiding principles related to immigration? What in your opinion would be the most reasonable plan to reduce illegal immigration? Should legal immigration be limited to those who can assume roles in US society that are in short supply? What steps are necessary for elected representatives to be able to find compromise on these issues?

 

[Paul]

Here is a pretty good breakdown of how dishonest Carlson is being about immigration and the Democrats. He is just outright pushing white nationalist talking points on his show, and mainstreaming hateful rhetoric.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/24/how-tucker-carlson-twisted-2015-clip-biden-into-conspiracy-theory/

Carlson is just a clown doing his job for ratings. He is paid to do a job. No different than Chris Cuomo or the others in MSNBC. I stopped watching them a long time ago.

 

[samiam5211]

There is a scarcity of workers in America so immigration is needed. However, we do not want to import the 3rd world. We need talented immigrants. Moderate Democrats understand this.

That is a short sighted point of view.

Long term we need people who need our country. Ronald Reagan felt the same way.

 

[Paul]

That is a short sighted point of view.

Long term we need people who need our country. Ronald Reagan felt the same way.

Immigration should be targeted to those that can perform jobs that Americans are not doing or cannot do. That covers people picking tomatoes to brain surgeons. There is no point in importing people that will be burdens to the state or those that will rob American born citizens of their jobs.

The birth rate in Western nations is generally low due to affluence and women seeking careers. If citizens do not have children then the nation should admit young people to pay into the Social Security system.

The right wing people are worried about a majority that will not be white. That is no big deal as long as the immigrants adopt American values. If they don't then we end up with more tribalism and balkanization.

 

[samiam5211]

Immigration should be targeted to those that can perform jobs that Americans are not doing or cannot do. That covers people picking tomatoes to brain surgeons. There is no point in importing people that will be burdens to the state or those that will rob American born citizens of their jobs.

The birth rate in Western nations is generally low due to affluence and women seeking careers. If citizens do not have children then the nation should admit young people to pay into the Social Security system.

The right wing people are worried about a majority that will not be white. That is no big deal as long as the immigrants adopt American values. If they don't then we end up with more tribalism and balkanization.

If there are jobs that Americans can’t do, the we need to produce better Americans. Immigration should not be used as a solution to failures of the education system.

We need people who do not take take this country for granted and understand what freedom really means, not fake freedom fighters standing up to mask mandates.

First generation immigrants are better parents (you included, I suppose) than the average American who never met a family member who wasn’t born here.

 

[samiam5211]

 

[Goatman saint]

There is a scarcity of workers in America so immigration is needed. However, we do not want to import the 3rd world. We need talented immigrants. Moderate Democrats understand this.

I’m getting so tired of your racist superiority garbage. Guess what. That small number of highly qualified professionals is in demand everywhere. With the latest a administration’s screwing around with immigration at all levels guess what a lot of them did? They took their ball and went elsewhere, because they can.

So we are left with your poor worthless third world untalented migrants. Ok but what actually happens when they get here? Humm. They work. They pay into a system they cannot take from. They won’t ever get Medicare, social security or many other federal benefits. When you say they suck off society, I sure would like to see you prove it, with something besides some heavy slanted source.

But wait when given a chance what happens. Here read and educate yourself. https://hechingerreport.org/counting-daca-students/

 

[MT15]

Carlson is just a clown doing his job for ratings. He is paid to do a job. No different than Chris Cuomo or the others in MSNBC. I stopped watching them a long time ago.

Well, you‘re wrong about this. Nobody on the other channels is parroting white nationalist talking points. Tucker does it all the time. In fact, it’s foolish to maintain they are the same. Extremely so.

 

[Paul]

I’m getting so tired of your racist superiority garbage. Guess what. That small number of highly qualified professionals is in demand everywhere. With the latest a administration’s screwing around with immigration at all levels guess what a lot of them did? They took their ball and went elsewhere, because they can.

So we are left with your poor worthless third world untalented migrants. Ok but what actually happens when they get here? Humm. They work. They pay into a system they cannot take from. They won’t ever get Medicare, social security or many other federal benefits. When you say they suck off society, I sure would like to see you prove it, with something besides some heavy slanted source.

But wait when given a chance what happens. Here read and educate yourself. https://hechingerreport.org/counting-daca-students/

In my neck of the woods 99% of construction workers are Hispanics. Initially they were just laborers and now many are contractors that routinely outbid Anglo construction companies. I know what immigrants can do. Some of the best docs in my area are of Indian, Pakistani, and Iranian ancestry. The immigrants that make it big have a drive that the long term Americans lack. That does not mean we allow every Joe Blow to come in without checking. Some 3rd world people will not make it here and become dependent on the state. I have not said anything racist. You guys see racism everywhere.

 

[Paul]

Well, you‘re wrong about this. Nobody on the other channels is parroting white nationalist talking points. Tucker does it all the time. In fact, it’s foolish to maintain they are the same. Extremely so.

CNN and MSNBC are on the opposite end of Fox. It is all the same BS to me. People repeating the same recycled words on the right or the left. It is quite boring and a fraud. However, these networks give people what they want to hear. They feed the right and left echo chambers quite well. The BBC is the same, NPR, no different. The only guy I really like on TV is comedian Bill Maher. I tend to agree with him most of the time.

 

[Goatman saint]

In my neck of the woods 99% of construction workers are Hispanics. Initially they were just laborers and now many are contractors that routinely outbid Anglo construction companies. I know what immigrants can do. Some of the best docs in my area are of Indian, Pakistani, and Iranian ancestry. The immigrants that make it big have a drive that the long term Americans lack. That does not mean we allow every Joe Blow to come in without checking. Some 3rd world people will not make it here and become dependent on the state. I have not said anything racist. You guys see racism everywhere.

Dude. You literally said you don’t think those from the third world should be here. That’s people of color. In the education thread you talk of how Asians are superior and how some races have higher IQs. Take the screwed up black boys away from their families and put them in boarding schools to become gentleman. Please. It runs through everything you post.

You posted that the third world comes here to live off the government. This is categorically false. Federal aid is not able to be given to that group. Some states will. Those states see the highest levels of achievement of those populations.

But, on one hand you say they are lazy and living off the government, then you talk about how they underbid Anglo (cough white) workers. You’re next thread I’m sure will be about how these Mexicans and Central Americans are taking away our jobs. Pick a stance. Are they lazy and live off the government or are they taking your jobs? You need to pick a side and stay consistent at least.

Oh wait, you keep saying your Latin. Humm there is no Latin country which is considered first world. Dang third world people. Coming to live off the government.

 

[Goatman saint]

If there are jobs that Americans can’t do, the we need to produce better Americans. Immigration should not be used as a solution to failures of the education system.

We need people who do not take take this country for granted and understand what freedom really means, not fake freedom fighters standing up to mask mandates.

First generation immigrants are better parents (you included, I suppose) than the average American who never met a family member who wasn’t born here.

Speaking as someone who can trace their family back to the original settlers of Pennsylvania, who are you to judge what a person thinks what freedom means? Freedom can mean a lot of different things to many different people. For you, or anyone else to cast your values on another isn’t how I view freedom. Anyway.

First generation are better parents than the average American. Really? Look I’m as pro immigration as is practical. A very strong believer and supporter of many different programs for immigrants. But, let’s quit trying to drive a wedge here. There are wonderful parents everywhere. There are garbage parents everywhere. It’s not limited to race, income or ethnicity. And once again before you cast that good parent….. what exactly makes a good parent? Soccer mom Karen? A family who works 50 hours a week and needs the kids to help and be responsible? Is it those who obey discipline blindly? Who score well on tests? Oooo maybe those who don’t get on public assistance. Like I said, be careful with your judgement.

 

[samiam5211]

Speaking as someone who can trace their family back to the original settlers of Pennsylvania, who are you to judge what a person thinks what freedom means? Freedom can mean a lot of different things to many different people. For you, or anyone else to cast your values on another isn’t how I view freedom. Anyway.

First generation are better parents than the average American. Really? Look I’m as pro immigration as is practical. A very strong believer and supporter of many different programs for immigrants. But, let’s quit trying to drive a wedge here. There are wonderful parents everywhere. There are garbage parents everywhere. It’s not limited to race, income or ethnicity. And once again before you cast that good parent….. what exactly makes a good parent? Soccer mom Karen? A family who works 50 hours a week and needs the kids to help and be responsible? Is it those who obey discipline blindly? Who score well on tests? Oooo maybe those who don’t get on public assistance. Like I said, be careful with your judgement.

You seen to have taken what I said personally and missed the point.

 

[Goatman saint]

You seen to have taken what I said personally and missed the point.

No I didn’t. There is not the population in the US to fill every position. Covid made the baby boomers leave earlier than they wanted and every economist knew that the labor pool was going to be short and have pains when the boomers left. That’s a commonly known issue this country would be facing. We have relied on immigration for years to keep the population up. Obama under the table and Trump very publicly limited immigration both undocumented and work visa. There was an absolute mess made and the labor market will be suffering for a while because of it. Do we need to do better with American citizens? Sure, but turning them into corporate stooges isn’t the long term answer. Our population is sick. Our food quality nutrition wise is poor, our over worked population doesn’t have time to relax and enjoy. It’s incredibly difficult for a middle class family to raise a child due to costs and stagnant wages going back to the early 70’s. These are huge social issues, and ones that in today’s world aren’t going to be fixed. You can’t just lay it at the feet of education, as education has been the dumping ground to solve all societies problems.

So, where do we go? It has to be immigration, and the big numbers of those are from Latin America.

But, the part that I did take more so is you putting your generic values on what freedom is, and what a successful parent is. You did a broad shot at American parents. Ok dont get much longer in America than I. I have a 27 year old aeronautical engineer who has designed legacy hardware. I have a 23 year old regional manager in a very valuable company. But at the same time my friend whose parents are from Mexico has 7/7 kids with bachelors, 4/7 with masters, 2/7 with doctorates. Like I said good parents, any race, any background, any income.

It’s unfair to all when people cast generic judgements on who is/is not a good parent. Or do I value freedom less because I don’t agree with the idiotic path this country is going down. The stupid is strong right now.

 

[brandon]

Carlson is just a clown doing his job for ratings. He is paid to do a job. No different than Chris Cuomo or the others in MSNBC. I stopped watching them a long time ago.

CNN and MSNBC are on the opposite end of Fox. It is all the same BS to me. People repeating the same recycled words on the right or the left. It is quite boring and a fraud. However, these networks give people what they want to hear. They feed the right and left echo chambers quite well. The BBC is the same, NPR, no different. The only guy I really like on TV is comedian Bill Maher. I tend to agree with him most of the time.

Both sides!

 

[cuddlemonkey]

CNN and MSNBC are on the opposite end of Fox. It is all the same BS to me. People repeating the same recycled words on the right or the left. It is quite boring and a fraud. However, these networks give people what they want to hear. They feed the right and left echo chambers quite well. The BBC is the same, NPR, no different. The only guy I really like on TV is comedian Bill Maher. I tend to agree with him most of the time.

I genuinely think you should do some basic research into media literacy, as you seem to be lacking it completely.

 

[Paul]

Dude. You literally said you don’t think those from the third world should be here. That’s people of color.

I said nothing about skin color. It seems you see everything through a color lens which in itself is racist to the core. We need all types of immigrants, but they should not be 100% of people that are illiterate even in their native language and may never acquire skills in America. The hyper-vigilance for issues of race does not allow for a discussion and free flow of ideas. The discussion becomes 1984 talk where some words cannot be used. Sure we need some 3rd world uneducated immigrants too, but we cannot have a system where all the immigrants are like that.

In the education thread you talk of how Asians are superior and how some races have higher IQs.

I did not say Asians are superior. All I said is that many (not all) tend to score higher in aptitude tests and hence they have a higher level of income and education than many Anglos. Stating a fact is not racism. The reason they score better is mostly cultural. By the way Nigerian and Jamaican immigrants are also socialized to do well in America.

Why Asian-Americans score so highly in the SAT & ACT - Study International

When ACT released its latest test scores this October, the results showed that average scores took a dip for every racial group in the United States except one – Asian-Americans. Three reasons why Asian-American students are the only racial group to score gains in ACT's latest test scores this...

www.studyinternational.com

Take the screwed up black boys away from their families and put them in boarding schools to become gentleman. Please. It runs through everything you post.

Yeah, what a concept! Providing those in a disadvantaged position all the advantages of people that have resources. And you call that racism. There you go again with your hyper vigilance. I wanted my son to grow up a gentleman.

You posted that the third world comes here to live off the government. This is categorically false. Federal aid is not able to be given to that group. Some states will. Those states see the highest levels of achievement of those populations.

It is very costly to deal with unannounced migrants rushing the border. They will eventually use up resources that could have gone to people that live here. The immigration needs to be planned carefully and targeted. People coming in should be contributors to society. IF you think that is racist you need to your racism detector program is set to HIGH. Listen to Obama and lean something.

Oh wait, you keep saying your Latin. Humm there is no Latin country which is considered first world. Dang third world people. Coming to live off the government.

Yes, and living in a 3rd world nation is not pleasant. In Mexico people that have some income need security guards. In other nations gates security is a must. When a large fraction of the population is poor the quality of living goes down. It is not about the immigrant condition. As a general rule immigrants commit less crime than locals. It is about poverty associated with crime and that involves all kinds of people.

 

[Paul]

I genuinely think you should do some basic research into media literacy, as you seem to be lacking it copletely.

Do you have an argument?

 

[Paul]

I loved Reagan!