Immigration is completely out of control (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

A couple of days ago, one of the main US-MX border points of entry was blocked by 1000's of migrants demanding entry into the country, which caused chaos for those who lawfully cross the border on business, for work, or for delivery of goods, both ways.

Lawful border crossings are getting progressively worse across the border, and drug cartels are finding it easier to move product, as the CBP has to transfer personnel and efforts to the processing of migrants.

It's not different on MX's South border. Yesterday, ~5000 migrants stormed into Chiapas all the way to the INM building (INM is immigration) running over fences, barricades, and elements of the National Guard. They are now taking over an ecological park in Tapachula, Chiapas, which it's going to be severely affected, as it's been the case with just about everywhere migrants squat.

Unfortunately, Juan Trump (that's Donald Trump's pet name for the President of México) was bamboozled by his "friend" Donald into making MX a "lobby" for migrants trying to reach the U.S.

Many people would argue that migrants are "good for the economy", but that is not always the case. Billions of dollars leave the U.S. economy every year, because migrants send money from the U.S. to other countries to support families there. The biggest destinations are India and MX, to the tune of 100 billion dollars in 2023 alone, according to the Bank of México (kind of like the MX version of the Fed). These billions of dollars do not circulate in the U.S. economy.

Speaking of inflation, the past year, the U.S. dollar has lost ~20% of its value against the MX peso. One of the main reasons for it, is the amount of money being sent to MX from the U.S. And MX is the U.S. 2nd largest trading partner.

Gregg Abbott is a lot of things, but I don't blame him for his attempts at curbing the hordes of people demanding entry into the U.S., even the busing of migrants to other States, making some put their money where their mouth is, like the Mayor of NYC, who was so welcoming of migrants, until he he got a taste, then went crying to the federal government for more money, while the shelters were at full capacity; shelters which BTW serve the NYC poor as well.

And please, no one mention a wall. There is a wall. A wall can be climbed; a wall can be dug under.; holes can be punched through walls.

 

[MT15]

Now NY wants illegals to be able to vote in local elections.

Even the NY Post story gets this right. The proposal was for immigrants who carry green cards. Not “illegals” as you have repeatedly said. And it was struck down by the courts.

Will you admit you are wrong about this? Will you start reading what you post before you come in here and misrepresent what the stories you post are saying?

There’s nothing wrong with Biden’s proposal. These are people who are married to US citizens, they should have a pathway to citizenship. They will still have to meet all the requirements to obtain that citizenship, this will just prevent them from being deported while they are working on it.

 

[bird]

Define isolationism because it’s amazing how it’s good for some things and not others. I guess as long as it fits the argument then it works.

Your last paragraph I was in agreement with until the last sentence. If you think only Trump’s presidency is as the problem then you are one of those that believes democrats are righteous and only focus on doing good. That’s dangerous and that’s why this country is where it is. Politicians in office are looking out for themselves, getting rich and winning the next election. They have all had a chance to make change and they haven’t because it’s not in their best interest. Step back and think about what would happen to politics if problems were solved.

Let us start with this from, iirc, Harold Lasswell:

Politics is who gets what, where, when, how and why. Nothing would happen to politics because problems arise constantly and solutions can and do become insufficient to solving problems.

Regarding Trump, he and MAGA are a large part of the problem which is illustrated in the bipartisan legislation created to address the problem you are pointing out being quashed by Trump despite his having no legal position. So, yes, right now Republicans are more to blame.

Isolationism is the deliberate inward turning while ignoring that which goes on around us and which can and does have the potential to negatively impact the country. Perhaps you were just being snarky.

 

[MT15]

Also illegals give more House seats to some states.

This is in the Constitution. Every resident is used for the census. If you have a problem with that, you’re going to have to amend the Constitution.

 

[Krodwhodat]

You are the one saying “people must suffer”. I merely asked you some pointed questions, which you have really failed to answer, and have gone ad hominem full blast right off the bat. Says a lot more about you than about me. Maybe try to address the issues without going into personal attacks - Andrus owns this site as well and has the same rules as Saints Report.

And speaking of “keeping the culture” of our country IS a dog whistle. You are now saying you were speaking of their country- whoever “they” are. Okay, I’m not sure I am buying that you weren’t talking about the US, but I will take you at your word.

What I pointed out was that your “only 2 solutions” post was false. I never said my ideas were absolute, not even in the slightest. You are the one asserting that your ideas are absolute, not me. There are certainly other solutions.

Also, you seemed to have a problem with what Biden is proposing, which is why I asked you the question about ripping families apart. If you didn’t have a problem with it, I was confused about that.

I understand the terms of service, I used to be a moderator on here.
Go back and read what I said again, it’s plain I meant country and culture of the immigrants coming here. Running from their problems isn’t going to fix anything and they will lose what’s left of their country if they don’t fix it.

People have to suffer to create change. It’s no different here than there. Just look at what people in our own country went through to make change. You can’t run away from your problems and from bullies. You stand up and fight. People have to stand up for themselves eventually.

Ask your questions again and I’ll try to answer them. And I get frustrated because we have become robots that worship politicians and fight amongst each other on issues that 99% of us agree on are a problem but have different ways of fixing.

People don’t have their own thoughts anymore, rather they say what they are told to do. Both parties have created this environment we live in and pitted us all against one another to benefit themselves and too many people fall for it hook line and sinker.

Today the surgeon general says we need warning labels on social media apps for children. It should be for adults as well because it’s unhealthy.
Not picking on you but reading threads on here I see you reposting from random people I’ve never heard of like it actually means something. I bet all your social media feeds are full of liberal media sites, liberal celebrities, “journalists” and random people you agree with. I bet you watch MSNBC and CNN constantly just taking in all they have to offer and it’s. I also think you’re are a very intelligent person that gets swept up in the “football game” of politics. It’s not about choosing sides or blaming sides. They all have blood on their hands. Back when we could discuss politics on SR we would talk about how we could probably solve the country’s problems over a weekend of have cocktails. It’s not that way anymore because there is no compromise. So sorry if I came off strong I just can’t stand the blame game.

Surgeon General demands warning label on social media apps

Congress has long chastised social media companies, claiming they pose harm to children.

wdsu.com

 

[Krodwhodat]

Let us start with this from, iirc, Harold Lasswell:

Politics is who gets what, where, when, how and why. Nothing would happen to politics because problems arise constantly and solutions can and do become insufficient to solving problems.

Regarding Trump, he and MAGA are a large part of the problem which is illustrated in the bipartisan legislation created to address the problem you are pointing out being quashed by Trump despite his having no legal position. So, yes, right now Republicans are more to blame.

Isolationism is the deliberate inward turning while ignoring that which goes on around us and which can and does have the potential to negatively impact the country. Perhaps you were just being snarky.

Not being snarky try to show there needs to be consistency. We tried isolationism after world war 1. It doesn’t work you also can say we can be isolationist for some things and not others. You can also argue that the definition means we should clean up other countries so immigration stops. Right or wrong I see it as dealing with immigration here is putting a bandage on a problem and ignoring the actual root. I think that’s more than just immigrat, it could be said about a lot of issues we face. If we want to be isolated then shut the borders, pull back our troops and protect only our walls. If we want to be the police of the world the do it.

 

[Krodwhodat]

This is in the Constitution. Every resident is used for the census. If you have a problem with that, you’re going to have to amend the Constitution.

He said illegals. They shouldn’t be there so it’s not in the constitution.

 

[Krodwhodat]

Don’t care whether you said it our not. The RW has been screeching it. It is agitprop and is very useful to stir up anger.

Standing up to other governments…how quaint. Tell that to the PRC. Tell it to to NK, Iran, Saudi Arabia. Due to the Monroe Doctrine we have demanded the right to dominion over the Western Hemisphere. This has inevitably resulted in supporting RW oppressive governments due to corporations requiring freedom to do whatever they wish.

Btw…

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

it’s weird that the title is “illegal” border crossings….
It’s illegal, one is too many. It’s not ok to do illegal stuff as long as it’s not breaking records. We have laws that have to be respected whether you agree with them or not. If you don’t line the law then change it and don’t blame republicans because there were many of times democrats had majority and didn’t do it.

 

[bird]

Not being snarky try to show there needs to be consistency. We tried isolationism after world war 1. It doesn’t work you also can say we can be isolationist for some things and not others. You can also argue that the definition means we should clean up other countries so immigration stops. Right or wrong I see it as dealing with immigration here is putting a bandage on a problem and ignoring the actual root. I think that’s more than just immigrat, it could be said about a lot of issues we face. If we want to be isolated then shut the borders, pull back our troops and protect only our walls. If we want to be the police of the world the do it.

Define the “actual root”.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

He said illegals. They shouldn’t be there so it’s not in the constitution.

I'll admit i don't know the constitution in and out, only the cliff notes versions. Does the constitution distinquish between citizen and non citizen when it comes to this? or is this just some people interpitation?

 

[MT15]

He said illegals. They shouldn’t be there so it’s not in the constitution.

The part of the constitution that lays out how the census is to be conducted specifies all residents. I believe there have been court cases affirming that means everyone living in that area regardless of citizenship status. The census counts everyone. That’s the way it was intended to be. That’s what I meant when I said it’s in the Constitution.

I am going from memory here. Feel free to check me.

BTW, I’m glad you’re here. I remember you as being a good poster from SR. We need a good conservative voice on here. We’ve been lacking that.

 

[MT15]

don’t blame republicans

Well, recent events can actually be blamed on Rs blindly following Trump, can they not? That bill that Lankford and others negotiated was the best bill to come along in decades. I agree with you that both sides have been using immigration as a political football. But this was a golden opportunity for a great compromise in the middle that angered both extremes, and Trump was able to kill it because even moderate Rs bend the knee to him. He absolutely sacrificed gains for the country because he thinks it will benefit his personal campaign.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Well, recent events can actually be blamed on Rs blindly following Trump, can they not? That bill that Langford and others negotiated was the best bill to come along in decades. I agree with you that both sides have been using immigration as a political football. But this was a golden opportunity for a great compromise in the middle that angered both extremes, and Trump was able to kill it because even moderate Rs bend the knee to him. He absolutely sacrificed gains for the country because he thinks it will benefit his personal campaign.

While your "recent events" assessment does have merit, any and all attempts to reform immigration have been met with staunch Republican Party opposition. Even the proposal that was championed by Bush 43 was hot down by his own party in response to right wing media personalities opposition to the bill.

From 2013:

* The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986: The amnesty law of 1986 passed through Congress and was signed by President Ronald Reagan, but it is largely considered a failure. The legislation was meant to tighten border security and crack down on employers hiring undocumented immigrants, while offering amnesty to those already in the country illegally. Three million immigrants were legalized, but the law did not slow illegal immigration or create a framework to deal with it going forward. Since then, opponents of comprehensive reform have often cited the 1986 legislation as a reason to be wary...
"For 20 years our country has done basically nothing to enforce the 1986 legislation against either the employers who hired illegal immigrants or those who crossed our borders illegally to work for them," then-Arizona Governor, now Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano wrote in 2007.

* 1996: Under President Clinton, most reform was aimed at reducing immigration amid rising anti-immigrant sentiment in the country. But the backlash against strict reform led many of the harshest measures to be rolled back, meaning that ultimately little changed. * 2000: President Clinton pushed for amnesty for hundreds of thousands of immigrants left in legal limbo by a technical screw-up involving the 1986 law and offered a path to citizenship for hundreds of thousands of Central Americans. Republicans blocked that effort, but (again mindful of electoral concerns) passed their own legislation addressing the 1986 issue and family members of legal residents. Clinton threatened another showdown, but after Democrats lost the 2000 election he backed off and signed the GOP bill.

* 2004-2007: You could say that talk radio killed President Bush's attempts at immigration reform. He hoped to appeal to both business owners and Hispanic voters with a comprehensive overhaul, but he was stymied by his own party.

* 2010: Like Bush, President Obama was caught between Hispanic voters and the GOP. In 2009 he called immigration reform a priority but acknowledged that there was too much on his plate to get it done soon.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/01/30/how-immigration-reform-failed-over-and-over/

Upon the failure of the 2007 Bush 43 efforts, this was offered by Sen Edward Kennedy:

But Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, the chief Democratic architect of the bill, said that many senators had “voted their fears, not their hopes.”

Referring to opponents of the bill, Mr. Kennedy said: “We know what they don’t like. What are they for? What are they going to do with the 12 million who are undocumented here? Send them back to countries around the world? Develop a type of Gestapo here to seek out these people that are in the shadows? What’s their alternative?”

Without a new immigration law, Mr. Kennedy said, “The situation is going to get worse and worse and worse.”

Now, @Krodwhodat was almost getting there by mentioning "root causes" of the immigration issue, but then he kneecaps that whole thought by advocating isolationism and that will not stop migration from South & Central America.

There is a GREAT middle ground from isolationism and being the world police and that is where true reform can happen if we really want to work towards addressing this mass exodus from CA. I would call that exodus a national security issue and we need to treat it as such instead of going after the low hanging fruit which is our southern border. We need to be working with the CA governments to address the needs of their citizens to encourage them to stay.

If they need help with security, we should help them, its in our interest to help them! Now, the climate issues that they are facing is something we can do little to address because we are facing the same issues here. That being said, if we all can come together working towards the same goals, it will create other opportunities that may lead to innovative solutions.

In any case, working within that middle ground between world police and isolationism is a far better outcome than what we are doing now.

 

[MT15]

While working on immigration, we also need to keep in mind that climate change could render large portions of the world largely uninhabitable. Food production will become an issue as well.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Jesus didn’t trust the government or believe that they should take care of the people he believed in volunteerism which meant people take care about f people not the government.

You mean like volunteering to help people who come to our country in need of help, instead of sending them back to "where they came from" because it's "you and your government's problem, not mine?"

Did Jesus ever tell anyone that asked him for help, "nope, talk to your government about that?"

Did Jesus ever tell people, "help the suffering, but only if they're from your country?"

I never read that anywhere in the new testament teachings of Christ, did you?

 

[SystemShock]

One would assume that with the money they save in not having to pay a Coyote (I hear the going rate is about $10,000),

That must be 1st class, all included.

I think they put operations in places like Costa Rica to catch migrants who may already be traveling on their way to the border. That's just what I remember from reading about the program a while back.

So why not Panama, or Colombia? The most dangerous pass in the area is the Darién jungle, and that one is between Panama and Colombia.

And why not ask for asylum in Panama or Costa Rica?

 

[coldseat]

That must be 1st class, all included.

I meant for the Coyote, not the plane ticket. Lol

So why not Panama, or Colombia? The most dangerous pass in the area is the Darién jungle, and that one is between Panama and Colombia.

And why not ask for asylum in Panama or Costa Rica?

I don't really know or have a good answer for that. Maybe they were able to arrange it with Costa Rica and not the other countries.

 

[SystemShock]

Read Gen. Smedley Butler regarding United Fruit.

That was a million years ago.

It's been what, 50 years since the Junta took over Nicaragua? Where is Nicaragua now?

 

[SystemShock]

I meant for the Coyote, not the plane ticket. Lol

I meant the coyote too.

I don't really know or have a good answer for that. Maybe they were able to arrange it with Costa Rica and not the other countries.

With Panama?