Immigration is completely out of control (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

A couple of days ago, one of the main US-MX border points of entry was blocked by 1000's of migrants demanding entry into the country, which caused chaos for those who lawfully cross the border on business, for work, or for delivery of goods, both ways.

Lawful border crossings are getting progressively worse across the border, and drug cartels are finding it easier to move product, as the CBP has to transfer personnel and efforts to the processing of migrants.

It's not different on MX's South border. Yesterday, ~5000 migrants stormed into Chiapas all the way to the INM building (INM is immigration) running over fences, barricades, and elements of the National Guard. They are now taking over an ecological park in Tapachula, Chiapas, which it's going to be severely affected, as it's been the case with just about everywhere migrants squat.

Unfortunately, Juan Trump (that's Donald Trump's pet name for the President of México) was bamboozled by his "friend" Donald into making MX a "lobby" for migrants trying to reach the U.S.

Many people would argue that migrants are "good for the economy", but that is not always the case. Billions of dollars leave the U.S. economy every year, because migrants send money from the U.S. to other countries to support families there. The biggest destinations are India and MX, to the tune of 100 billion dollars in 2023 alone, according to the Bank of México (kind of like the MX version of the Fed). These billions of dollars do not circulate in the U.S. economy.

Speaking of inflation, the past year, the U.S. dollar has lost ~20% of its value against the MX peso. One of the main reasons for it, is the amount of money being sent to MX from the U.S. And MX is the U.S. 2nd largest trading partner.

Gregg Abbott is a lot of things, but I don't blame him for his attempts at curbing the hordes of people demanding entry into the U.S., even the busing of migrants to other States, making some put their money where their mouth is, like the Mayor of NYC, who was so welcoming of migrants, until he he got a taste, then went crying to the federal government for more money, while the shelters were at full capacity; shelters which BTW serve the NYC poor as well.

And please, no one mention a wall. There is a wall. A wall can be climbed; a wall can be dug under.; holes can be punched through walls.

 

[Krodwhodat]

Those apply only to local elections, not state and federal. Wake me up when a state election allows this.

And to be sure, I don't agree with local elections allowing this.

When you have to be woken up it will be too late. They shouldn’t be allowed to vote in any election period. Whether they work here or not is irrelevant. There are 2 ways to fix immigration and most people don’t want to hear either one.

1- people stay in their on country and fight for a better life and better rights. We did it. Yes it sucks and people die but it’s how you keep your country and culture.

2 - we hold fleeing countries responsible for their people coming here illegally and force them to pay for it.

There is no pretty way to fix it but someone is going to have to suffer.

 

[MT15]

They can already vote in some local elections around the country. Now NY wants illegals to be able to vote in local elections. What safeguards are in place that makes sure that those illegals voting in local elections will be turned away if they try to vote in a federal election?

NYC council asks state’s highest court to allow non-citizens to vote in local elections

The controversial election change, passed by the City Council in late 2021 and signed into law by then-Mayor Bill de Blasio, would have allowed 800,000 noncitizens to vote but was struck down last …

nypost.com

A shirt ton of safeguards. You are absolutely ignorant of voting procedures and you don’t care. Because all you want to do is rage-farm to support your hero, a convicted felon who couldn’t name the 3 branches of government and who doesn’t care about anything but himself.

 

[MT15]

There are various localities that allow LEGAL non-citizens to vote in LOCAL elections. NOBODY allows UNDOCUMENTED residents to vote.

Quit reading outrage porn. Quit panicking about non-issues.

 

[DaveXA]

You just told be that illegals weren't voting in local elections. You said it was already found to be unconstitutional for illegals to vote in local elections. So you were wrong on both points.

Unconstitutional in the state of NY. That's what was stated in the article you posted. So, not wrong there. I confused state and local elections. Sue me.

Do you agree with Biden wanting to illegally grant legal status to hundreds of thousands of illegals?

It depends. I do think some people should have a path to citizenship. Particularly those who have been married to US citizens and have lived in the US for a long period of time. As long as it's done legally, I'm OK with it.

 

[J-DONK]

You just told be that illegals weren't voting in local elections. You said it was already found to be unconstitutional for illegals to vote in local elections. So you were wrong on both points.

Do you agree with Biden wanting to illegally grant legal status to hundreds of thousands of illegals?

Can you explain to the board WHY giving citizenship to hundreds of thousands of illegals is bad?

I can give you the reason why it's good in a single word, Demographics.

There are 10,000 baby boomers retiring everyday on average for the next decade. That's the reason why the labor market is tight. Even during the covid downturn we didn't see a huge surge in unemployment.

Do you know why Republicans stopped talking about "welfare queens"? They don't exist. African Americans just like white people are having kids below the replacement rate.

What all this means is long term without immigration: legal, or illegal. We will experience a population decline.

Unless AI somehow replaced over 50% of the labor force. We will need new people to fund all of our social programs, and military.

 

[MT15]

When you have to be woken up it will be too late. They shouldn’t be allowed to vote in any election period. Whether they work here or not is irrelevant. There are 2 ways to fix immigration and most people don’t want to hear either one.

1- people stay in their on country and fight for a better life and better rights. We did it. Yes it sucks and people die but it’s how you keep your country and culture.

2 - we hold fleeing countries responsible for their people coming here illegally and force them to pay for it.

There is no pretty way to fix it but someone is going to have to suffer.

No, there isn’t a good reason to “make people suffer”. What kind of policy is that? Can you explain to me why allowing people who have been here for years and are married to US citizens get a legal residency status is so bad that you would tear these families apart?

Oh, and your country and culture remark seems to me to be quite the dog whistle for something. Why don’t you say what you really mean?

What you have offered is a false choice. We don’t have to choose either one of these choices. Neither one is any good at all.

 

[DaveXA]

When you have to be woken up it will be too late.

Nah, its unconstitutional, so it ain't gonna happen unless something super stupid happens.

They shouldn’t be allowed to vote in any election period. Whether they work here or not is irrelevant.

I'd argue it is relevant. If they're being productive members of society, that's worth considering.

There are 2 ways to fix immigration and most people don’t want to hear either one.

1- people stay in their on country and fight for a better life and better rights. We did it. Yes it sucks and people die but it’s how you keep your country and culture.

Actually, no. That's not how we keep our country and culture. We've long been a nation of immigrants. My wife is a naturalized citizen. Our culture is constantly changing and evolving and that's a good thing.

2 - we hold fleeing countries responsible for their people coming here illegally and force them to pay for it.

We're far and away the wealthiest nation on earth. As far as I know, no other nation does this. It's not enforceable and seems like would be a draconian enforcement agency that would be needed to make that work.

There is no pretty way to fix it but someone is going to have to suffer.

They're already suffering enough. That's the whole point of why they come here. I would think us sacrificing a little to help others a lot can be a good thing.

And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. Acts 4:33-35

 

[LA - L.A.]

A dwindling supply of water for drinking and irrigation is going to increase the number of people seeking refuge, while at the same time heating up tensions between neighboring countries, which will make things even worse for those seeking refuge.

Unless we reverse current climate trends, the US and Mexico will become hostile to each other as they literally fight over water. It's going to be here a lot sooner than people think or are prepared for, because too many people think it's not possible, so they aren't doing anything to prevent it.

A water war is looming between Mexico and the US. Neither side will win | CNN

The US-Mexico water crisis is highlighting the immense difficulties of navigating how to share shrinking water resources in a hotter, drier world.

www.cnn.com

 

[LA - L.A.]

If current climate trends continue, extreme weather and sea level rise will cause hundreds of millions of people in China to seek refuge elsewhere.

I'm posting about this in this immigration thread, because arguing over who has a right to be helped or not, or who has a right to live where, is missing the much bigger problem and is like arguing over how to arrange the deck chairs on a sinking cruise ship that could be saved if we put as much focus and energy into saving the sinking ship.

Thousands evacuated as floods and deadly landslides hit southeast China | CNN

Thousands of people have been evacuated in southeast China after heavy rains hammered the region over the weekend, triggering floods and deadly landslides, authorities and state media said Monday.

www.cnn.com

Extreme climate increases the number of people who are displaced and in dire need of refuge, while at the same time decreasing the amount of food produced in the world. That leads to a global humanitarian crisis. If we don't have plans to deal with that global humanitarian crisis, then military conflict will erupt across the planet.

Hundreds of millions to billions of people displaced and starving with war raging across the planet, that's what's banging on our door and we're collectively ignoring it.

One of the things giving rise to fascism and authoritarianism across the planet is that the stresses we have already been feeling from the steady increase in extreme weather combined with the stress from the pandemic has made everyone more susceptible to those who exploit peoples fear by turning into hate in ruthless pursuit of their obsession to seize power and control.

 

[Krodwhodat]

No, there isn’t a good reason to “make people suffer”. What kind of policy is that? Can you explain to me why allowing people who have been here for years and are married to US citizens get a legal residency status is so bad that you would tear these families apart?

Oh, and your country and culture remark seems to me to be quite the dog whistle for something. Why don’t you say what you really mean?

What you have offered is a false choice. We don’t have to choose either one of these choices. Neither one is any good at all.

We aren’t making anyone suffer it’s their own government that is creating the suffering. It’s not our policy. You are focusing on a bandaide and not the root of the problem which is why they are leaving.
Also what you are asking me to explain I have never had a problem with. If someone marries a US citizen then they are well within their rights by law to become a US citizen. You are obviously so indoctrinated by your party that you don’t realize most people, all parties included, don’t have a problem with someone becoming a citizen legally, it’s the people who sneak in here illegally and break the law that most people have a problem with. And it’s hard to become a citizen because it has to be so we aren’t overwhelmed by people coming in.

And my comment about country and culture remark had nothing to do with the US. You again are such a hateful person that you only see negative when you are discussing a topic with someone you don’t agree with. The remark had to do with preserving their country and culture in their own country. Your remark is right of your crazy left wing world you live in, your a soldier for crazy politicians that you must defend with no thought process of your own. You are just as bad as the crazy Trumpers and right wing looney people.

And I stand by my 2 choices. You are absolutely welcome to have an opinion but please don’t sit here and act like your ideas and thoughts are absolute

 

[Krodwhodat]

Nah, its unconstitutional, so it ain't gonna happen unless something super stupid happens.

I'd argue it is relevant. If they're being productive members of society, that's worth considering.

Actually, no. That's not how we keep our country and culture. We've long been a nation of immigrants. My wife is a naturalized citizen. Our culture is constantly changing and evolving and that's a good thing.

We're far and away the wealthiest nation on earth. As far as I know, no other nation does this. It's not enforceable and seems like would be a draconian enforcement agency that would be needed to make that work.

They're already suffering enough. That's the whole point of why they come here. I would think us sacrificing a little to help others a lot can be a good thing.

If you are discussing voting in your first 2 sentences then you’re contradicting yourself.

Secondly I was talking about our country and culture I was talking about theirs and preserving it themselves in their own country. If your wife became a citizen legally then good for her. As I said above I’ve never had a problem with doing it legally.

We can’t as a nation continue to just keep putting bandaids on problems and I would argue that neither side really care about immigration to a point of wanting it fixed. If that was the case it would be fixed.

And we have a long list of things that need to be fixed here before we give immigrants money. Part of our problem is we distribute little here and little there to make it seem like we are doing something. Homelessness, veterans benefits, education, and poverty in the IS need to be fixed before we spend a dime on people coming here illegally.

“And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. Acts 4:33-35”

And this is great but it goes in hand with Jesus’s own words
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Jesus didn’t trust the government or believe that they should take care of the people he believed in volunteerism which meant people take care about f people not the government.

 

[bird]

We aren’t making anyone suffer it’s their own government that is creating the suffering. It’s not our policy. You are focusing on a bandaide and not the root of the problem which is why they are leaving.
Also what you are asking me to explain I have never had a problem with. If someone marries a US citizen then they are well within their rights by law to become a US citizen. You are obviously so indoctrinated by your party that you don’t realize most people, all parties included, don’t have a problem with someone becoming a citizen legally, it’s the people who sneak in here illegally and break the law that most people have a problem with. And it’s hard to become a citizen because it has to be so we aren’t overwhelmed by people coming in.

And my comment about country and culture remark had nothing to do with the US. You again are such a hateful person that you only see negative when you are discussing a topic with someone you don’t agree with. The remark had to do with preserving their country and culture in their own country. Your remark is right of your crazy left wing world you live in, your a soldier for crazy politicians that you must defend with no thought process of your own. You are just as bad as the crazy Trumpers and right wing looney people.

And I stand by my 2 choices. You are absolutely welcome to have an opinion but please don’t sit here and act like your ideas and thoughts are absolute

Read Gen. Smedley Butler regarding United Fruit. Read how U.S. corporate influenced policy has created or propped up RW governments in Central and South America. Read up on Milton Friedman and the so-called “Chicago Boys” and what happened in Chile.

Current laws and regulations are insufficient for dealing with migration. Despite claims screeched by the RW these migrants aren’t “taking jobs from Americans”. Instead they are doing low skilled labor Americans don’t want to do.

So, how do we force oppressive governments into changing their policies, laws and actions to help their citizens? How many nations are failed or near-failed states? On a related note the media and politicians here must stop claiming that the “border is wider open” which simply encourages desperate people. Finally, the legislation put for by Democrats and Republicans and quashed by Trump MUST be passed.

Btw, immigrants who commit crime are numerically far less than home grown crime. And no worse. That is simply agitprop to stir up xenophobia.

 

[bird]

If you are discussing voting in your first 2 sentences then you’re contradicting yourself.

Secondly I was talking about our country and culture I was talking about theirs and preserving it themselves in their own country. If your wife became a citizen legally then good for her. As I said above I’ve never had a problem with doing it legally.

We can’t as a nation continue to just keep putting bandaids on problems and I would argue that neither side really care about immigration to a point of wanting it fixed. If that was the case it would be fixed.

And we have a long list of things that need to be fixed here before we give immigrants money. Part of our problem is we distribute little here and little there to make it seem like we are doing something. Homelessness, veterans benefits, education, and poverty in the IS need to be fixed before we spend a dime on people coming here illegally.

“And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. Acts 4:33-35”

And this is great but it goes in hand with Jesus’s own words
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Jesus didn’t trust the government or believe that they should take care of the people he believed in volunteerism which meant people take care about f people not the government.

This country is unique in that it was created by stealing and killing indigenous peoples and then flooding space with immigrants from all over the world.

Screeches regarding culture are thinly veiled xenophobic and isolationist nonsense.

Christian scripture is pretty to quote but meaningless unless God demanding that the people care for immigrants because Israel was a stranger in a strange land is included. We’re are commanded to care for these people. Of course this underscores the problem of trying to shoehorn theology into a secular government.

You are correct that we have problems. The ability for government to do more than one thing at a time is a resource we have used and continue to use thus these issues are mere deflection because we have seen that the problems have not been addressed long before the “immigration issue”. Indeed, immigration is ignored once elections are completed as the quashing of the bipartisan legislation by Trump demonstrates.

 

[Krodwhodat]

Read Gen. Smedley Butler regarding United Fruit. Read how U.S. corporate influenced policy has created or propped up RW governments in Central and South America. Read up on Milton Friedman and the so-called “Chicago Boys” and what happened in Chile.

Current laws and regulations are insufficient for dealing with migration. Despite claims screeched by the RW these migrants aren’t “taking jobs from Americans”. Instead they are doing low skilled labor Americans don’t want to do.

So, how do we force oppressive governments into changing their policies, laws and actions to help their citizens? How many nations are failed or near-failed states? On a related note the media and politicians here must stop claiming that the “border is wider open” which simply encourages desperate people. Finally, the legislation put for by Democrats and Republicans and quashed by Trump MUST be passed.

Btw, immigrants who commit crime are numerically far less than home grown crime. And no worse. That is simply agitprop to stir up xenophobia.

I never said anything about migrants taking jobs, never said anything about immigrants committing crimes. It’s like you have a copy and paste of left wing responses that you guys put on every response. Did you even read what I said?
It shouldn’t be our problem to fix other governments, but if we can’t control people coming in here illegally then something has to be done at the root of the problem which is their government. But coming here illegally is a crime so there’s that.

You force oppressive governments into changing their policies by standing up to them. It’s how we did it here. This doesn’t get fixed by allowing oppressive governments to continue and people just running away from the problems. If it continues then you’ll have a world where 80% of the countries in the world have people running for freedom and then those governments will grow in power

 

[Krodwhodat]

This country is unique in that it was created by stealing and killing indigenous peoples and then flooding space with immigrants from all over the world.

Screeches regarding culture are thinly veiled xenophobic and isolationist nonsense.

Christian scripture is pretty to quote but meaningless unless God demanding that the people care for immigrants because Israel was a stranger in a strange land is included. We’re are commanded to care for these people. Of course this underscores the problem of trying to shoehorn theology into a secular government.

You are correct that we have problems. The ability for government to do more than one thing at a time is a resource we have used and continue to use thus these issues are mere deflection because we have seen that the problems have not been addressed long before the “immigration issue”. Indeed, immigration is ignored once elections are completed as the quashing of the bipartisan legislation by Trump demonstrates.

Define isolationism because it’s amazing how it’s good for some things and not others. I guess as long as it fits the argument then it works.

Your last paragraph I was in agreement with until the last sentence. If you think only Trump’s presidency is as the problem then you are one of those that believes democrats are righteous and only focus on doing good. That’s dangerous and that’s why this country is where it is. Politicians in office are looking out for themselves, getting rich and winning the next election. They have all had a chance to make change and they haven’t because it’s not in their best interest. Step back and think about what would happen to politics if problems were solved.

 

[coldseat]

I get that people here don't like Mike Lee, and don't think much of what SFL posts, but there are valid concerns here, and a number of questions that probably need to be answered. One that immediately comes to mind is, if the purpose of these offices is to prevent people from making the perilous journey to the U.S. border, how would they get to the U.S.? Is the U.S. going to spring for airfare?

One would assume that with the money they save in not having to pay a Coyote (I hear the going rate is about $10,000), they could buy a plane ticket once they have the papers to travel legally.

Another one is, Costa Rica? What conflict is there in Costa Rica? Anecdotal, sure, and maybe I just haven't paid too much attention, but of all of the nationalities that come across MX, I have never heard of anyone from Costa Rica. Sure they may be a few, but not in the 1000's like to other S.A. countries.

I think they put operations in places like Costa Rica to catch migrants who may already be traveling on their way to the border. That's just what I remember from reading about the program a while back.

Now, it is possible that these offices may have another purpose, one which Mayorkas wouldn't express openly, and that is to curb immigration by keeping the people who want to come to the U.S. over there, tied up in red tape. Which wouldn't be a bad thing.

I'm sure there will be red tape, but I don't think that's the only purpose.

 

[MT15]

We aren’t making anyone suffer it’s their own government that is creating the suffering. It’s not our policy. You are focusing on a bandaide and not the root of the problem which is why they are leaving.
Also what you are asking me to explain I have never had a problem with. If someone marries a US citizen then they are well within their rights by law to become a US citizen. You are obviously so indoctrinated by your party that you don’t realize most people, all parties included, don’t have a problem with someone becoming a citizen legally, it’s the people who sneak in here illegally and break the law that most people have a problem with. And it’s hard to become a citizen because it has to be so we aren’t overwhelmed by people coming in.

And my comment about country and culture remark had nothing to do with the US. You again are such a hateful person that you only see negative when you are discussing a topic with someone you don’t agree with. The remark had to do with preserving their country and culture in their own country. Your remark is right of your crazy left wing world you live in, your a soldier for crazy politicians that you must defend with no thought process of your own. You are just as bad as the crazy Trumpers and right wing looney people.

And I stand by my 2 choices. You are absolutely welcome to have an opinion but please don’t sit here and act like your ideas and thoughts are absolute

You are the one saying “people must suffer”. I merely asked you some pointed questions, which you have really failed to answer, and have gone ad hominem full blast right off the bat. Says a lot more about you than about me. Maybe try to address the issues without going into personal attacks - Andrus owns this site as well and has the same rules as Saints Report.

And speaking of “keeping the culture” of our country IS a dog whistle. You are now saying you were speaking of their country- whoever “they” are. Okay, I’m not sure I am buying that you weren’t talking about the US, but I will take you at your word.

What I pointed out was that your “only 2 solutions” post was false. I never said my ideas were absolute, not even in the slightest. You are the one asserting that your ideas are absolute, not me. There are certainly other solutions.

Also, you seemed to have a problem with what Biden is proposing, which is why I asked you the question about ripping families apart. If you didn’t have a problem with it, I was confused about that.

 

[bird]

I never said anything about migrants taking jobs, never said anything about immigrants committing crimes. It’s like you have a copy and paste of left wing responses that you guys put on every response. Did you even read what I said?
It shouldn’t be our problem to fix other governments, but if we can’t control people coming in here illegally then something has to be done at the root of the problem which is their government. But coming here illegally is a crime so there’s that.

You force oppressive governments into changing their policies by standing up to them. It’s how we did it here. This doesn’t get fixed by allowing oppressive governments to continue and people just running away from the problems. If it continues then you’ll have a world where 80% of the countries in the world have people running for freedom and then those governments will grow in power

Don’t care whether you said it our not. The RW has been screeching it. It is agitprop and is very useful to stir up anger.

Standing up to other governments…how quaint. Tell that to the PRC. Tell it to to NK, Iran, Saudi Arabia. Due to the Monroe Doctrine we have demanded the right to dominion over the Western Hemisphere. This has inevitably resulted in supporting RW oppressive governments due to corporations requiring freedom to do whatever they wish.

Btw…

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com