Immigration is completely out of control (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

A couple of days ago, one of the main US-MX border points of entry was blocked by 1000's of migrants demanding entry into the country, which caused chaos for those who lawfully cross the border on business, for work, or for delivery of goods, both ways.

Lawful border crossings are getting progressively worse across the border, and drug cartels are finding it easier to move product, as the CBP has to transfer personnel and efforts to the processing of migrants.

It's not different on MX's South border. Yesterday, ~5000 migrants stormed into Chiapas all the way to the INM building (INM is immigration) running over fences, barricades, and elements of the National Guard. They are now taking over an ecological park in Tapachula, Chiapas, which it's going to be severely affected, as it's been the case with just about everywhere migrants squat.

Unfortunately, Juan Trump (that's Donald Trump's pet name for the President of México) was bamboozled by his "friend" Donald into making MX a "lobby" for migrants trying to reach the U.S.

Many people would argue that migrants are "good for the economy", but that is not always the case. Billions of dollars leave the U.S. economy every year, because migrants send money from the U.S. to other countries to support families there. The biggest destinations are India and MX, to the tune of 100 billion dollars in 2023 alone, according to the Bank of México (kind of like the MX version of the Fed). These billions of dollars do not circulate in the U.S. economy.

Speaking of inflation, the past year, the U.S. dollar has lost ~20% of its value against the MX peso. One of the main reasons for it, is the amount of money being sent to MX from the U.S. And MX is the U.S. 2nd largest trading partner.

Gregg Abbott is a lot of things, but I don't blame him for his attempts at curbing the hordes of people demanding entry into the U.S., even the busing of migrants to other States, making some put their money where their mouth is, like the Mayor of NYC, who was so welcoming of migrants, until he he got a taste, then went crying to the federal government for more money, while the shelters were at full capacity; shelters which BTW serve the NYC poor as well.

And please, no one mention a wall. There is a wall. A wall can be climbed; a wall can be dug under.; holes can be punched through walls.

 

[DaveXA]

you are not a conservative you are a extreme right MAGA.
it's true because i said so..
that's how it works right?

He thinks extreme right MAGA is normal, thus conservative. Certainly seems that way anyway.

Fwiw, I think he's more fascist than anything else.

 

[MT15]

He thinks extreme right MAGA is normal, thus conservative. Certainly seems that way anyway.

Fwiw, I think he's more fascist than anything else.

He’s certainly strongly authoritarian, as is SFL. They have both expressed support for very serious government intrusion into citizen’s lives, including control of medical procedures, control of activities allowed, control of materials available in libraries, control of material taught in schools, control of how an employer trains their employees. I’m sure I’ve forgotten some.

 

[Farb]

Which I guess is why I left the party. I still consider myself a conservative but not a Republican. Republican purity tests reminds me of a country led by a mad man less than a century ago.

I can defentitley relate to the feeling put off the Rep party. I am too. I just have trouble wrapping my head around around feeling better about the Dem party. If you consider yourself a conservative, then the current Dem party really has nothing for you IMO.

Can you give me a idea on what you consider one of the purity tests?

 

[Farb]

He’s certainly strongly authoritarian, as is SFL. They have both expressed support for very serious government intrusion into citizen’s lives, including control of medical procedures, control of activities allowed, control of materials available in libraries, control of material taught in schools, control of how an employer trains their employees. I’m sure I’ve forgotten some.

Control of medical procedures? Were you asking for a federal mandate on vaxs?
How do you feel about bibles and prayer in schools, if voted on by the district?
Do you think an employee should be able to discuss his/her political beliefs or religious values at work? Do you think the government should regulate hate speech on line? Do you think misinformation should be regulated and controlled by the federal government?

 

[Farb]

He thinks extreme right MAGA is normal, thus conservative. Certainly seems that way anyway.

Fwiw, I think he's more fascist than anything else.

Let dig into this. What makes you think I am a fascist?

 

[DaveXA]

I can defentitley relate to the feeling put off the Rep party. I am too. I just have trouble wrapping my head around around feeling better about the Dem party. If you consider yourself a conservative, then the current Dem party really has nothing for you IMO.

Can you give me a idea on what you consider one of the purity tests?

Pro-life, loyalty to Trump, cutting much needed governemt services, building border wall, no action on gun control measures, i.e. expanded background checks, lack of regulations on second hand gun sales, etc. I have nuanced takes on most of these, but generally Republicans won't have good faith discussions on these topics, which frustrates me.

The number one issue though is Trump. Once Trump became the R nominee in the 2016 election, I pretty much checked out of the party. I've long despised Trump going back to the 80s. And the R party's ongoing obsession with him is disturbing on so many levels.

The one picture that encapsulates my disdain for him is when he held the Bible up in front of that church near the White House. He was simply pandering to his base and using the book as a prop. It's fake and he's done nothing worthy of holding that book. He's a charlatan and I have absolutely no respect for him.

 

[DaveXA]

Control of medical procedures? Were you asking for a federal mandate on vaxs?

Nope.

How do you feel about bibles and prayer in schools, if voted on by the district?

No Bibles and prayer during classes. If students and teachers want to do that on their own time before or after class, by all means.

Do you think an employee should be able to discuss his/her political beliefs or religious values at work?

Not unless they're specifically asked by another employee. But as a matter of business policy, no, since it has nothing to do with their work.

Do you think the government should regulate hate speech on line?

No. Businesses can and do though. If it's a government run site, then whatever regulations that normally applies to hate speech applies to the site.

Do you think misinformation should be regulated and controlled by the federal government?

No, that's up to businesses. Certainly the government can make recommendations, but it's up to the businesses to regulate and control misinformation on their sites.

 

[Farb]

Pro-life, loyalty to Trump, cutting much needed governemt services, building border wall, no action on gun control measures, i.e. expanded background checks, lack of regulations on second hand gun sales, etc. I have nuanced takes on most of these, but generally Republicans won't have good faith discussions on these topics, which frustrates me.

The number one issue though is Trump. Once Trump became the R nominee in the 2016 election, I pretty much checked out of the party. I've long despised Trump going back to the 80s. And the R party's ongoing obsession with him is disturbing on so many levels.

The one picture that encapsulates my disdain for him is when he held the Bible up in front of that church near the White House. He was simply pandering to his base and using the book as a prop. It's fake and he's done nothing worthy of holding that book. He's a charlatan and I have absolutely no respect for him.

OK, I guess I am mature enough and know enough about politicans to know they are all fake and all pander.
Did you get the same cringe feeling when the Dems kneeled down in the slave trader scarfs after GF death? Something tells me you did not.
Gun control we can discuss, I don't think there should be any, as per the constitution (conservative view).
Is building the wall racist to you?
When do you think abortion should be off the table?
What do you think should happen to Medicare and Social Security to keep the afloat in the future? Raise taxes?
I disagree with most of the Rep party but I disagree with everything the Dems stand for now (as I used to consider myself a Dem and voted as such but like you and the Reps, they left me in the middle, or so I feel.)

 

[Farb]

Nope.

No Bibles and prayer during classes. If students and teachers want to do that on their own time before or after class, by all means.

Not unless they're specifically asked by another employee. But as a matter of business policy, no, since it has nothing to do with their work.

No. Businesses can and do though. If it's a government run site, then whatever regulations that normally applies to hate speech applies to the site.

No, that's up to businesses. Certainly the government can make recommendations, but it's up to the businesses to regulate and control misinformation on their sites.

Thanks for the replies, but that was for my #1 fan MT

I will drill down on one of your replies about the Bible and prayer in school. What if the school district, by a vote of the people wanted it. Would you still be against it?

 

[MT15]

Control of medical procedures? Were you asking for a federal mandate on vaxs?
How do you feel about bibles and prayer in schools, if voted on by the district?
Do you think an employee should be able to discuss his/her political beliefs or religious values at work? Do you think the government should regulate hate speech on line? Do you think misinformation should be regulated and controlled by the federal government?

I’ve never been a libertarian.

lol. I have a question for you - when you used to identify as libertarian did you ever foresee yourself calling for government intrusion like you do now? Because you have done a 180 degree about face on government control of peoples’ lives.

No federal vaccine mandate was without exceptions except for the military. That was fine with me.

Bibles and prayer in the schools are generally considered unconstitutional. Government and religion should be kept separate. It doesn’t depend on locality, the Constitution applies everywhere.

People should be able to discuss what they want at work. But if they get to the point of harassment or hate speech, then they need to be told to knock it off with whatever disciplinary measures are appropriate.

I believe in the First Amendment. I believe we are better off when social media excludes hate speech on their own. I don’t think it’s smart to let hate fester online, do you? To let people tell lies about a certain segment of the population.

I think the government has a duty to inform the citizenry. We shouldn’t let foreign governments or bad actors come in and poison the minds of our citizens like they are doing right now. I think social media companies have an obligation to protect the users of their platforms from disinformation to a reasonable extent.

We are at the point, or soon will be, where child pornography can be AI generated, meaning no actual children are involved. Do you think it’s right to remove restrictions on it? I sure don’t.

I think you will find that I have some pretty reasonable ideas about things. But you are so brainwashed by your consumption of outrage porn that I am sure you think I am Satan’s helper. But you can step away. You don’t have to believe the lies that right wing outrage merchants are selling you. The vast majority of people in the US are reasonable and straightforward. Plus it isn’t healthy for your own psyche to be going around thinking half of the people in this country are demons.

 

[DaveXA]

OK, I guess I am mature enough and know enough about politicans to know they are all fake and all pander.

I wouldn't say they're all fake and pander, but certainly a lot of them do. When there's enough of it, yeah, I'll check out.

Did you get the same cringe feeling when the Dems kneeled down in the slave trader scarfs after GF death? Something tells me you did not.

I don't know what this is. Source?

Gun control we can discuss, I don't think there should be any, as per the constitution (conservative view).

I don't buy that as the conservative view. The conservative view is safe and responsible gun ownership that has to be licensed and insured.

Is building the wall racist to you?

No, building a wall is a waste of time and money, i.e. governemnt resources. That money should go towards hiring more judges to adjudicate immigration cases, of which there is an overwhelming backlog.

When do you think abortion should be off the table?

We've discussed this in the abortion thread. Ultimately, I think abortion decisions are between a doctor and the mother. But generally as a rule, viability and life of the mother are 2 criteria that would factor. Rape and incest should be completely at the discretion of the mother and her doctor.

What do you think should happen to Medicare and Social Security to keep the afloat in the future? Raise taxes?

It depends, there are a lot of levers that can be pulled, and no one lever is a magic bullet. But it is a real concern.

I disagree with most of the Rep party but I disagree with everything the Dems stand for now (as I used to consider myself a Dem and voted as such but like you and the Reps, they left me in the middle, or so I feel.)

I can't and won't get on board until the party dumps Trump, his family and the whole MAGA movement. I always hated the slogan and always felt that Trumpism doesn't leave much room for people who are disabled, look different, live different and is a haven for people with that kind of worldview.

 

[zztop]

Surreal how far (R) has shifted since then

 

[Optimus Prime]

Senate Democrats on Thursday will force a second vote on a bipartisan border security bill that Republicans blocked earlier this year at Donald Trump’s behest.

The legislation has next to no chance of passing the chamber, but Democrats hope the attempt will strengthen their argument that Republicans are not serious about addressing the situation at the US border with Mexico, an issue that polls show is a top concern among voters – and one of Joe Biden’s biggest political liabilities.

“Our bipartisan border bill represented a real chance – in fact, the best chance in decades – to act on border security, to make a law and not just to make a political point,” Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer said on Wednesday.

Democrats have spent the week driving home the message that the president and his party are trying to solve the issue, but have been thwarted by Republicans following Trump’s lead.

In February, after months of negotiations, a bipartisan group of senators had unveiled an immigration compromise – legislation Republicans said was necessary to unlock their support for a foreign aid package that included assistance to Ukraine.

The legislation, which would have made major changes to immigration law and received endorsements from the National Border Patrol Council and the US Chamber of Commerce, initially appeared to have the support to pass. But then Trump, wary of handing his opponent a political victory on one of his most motivating issues, called it weak and demanded his allies in the Senate abandon it…….

Senate Democrats to force second vote on border bill that Republicans blocked

Legislation has next to no chance of passing but Democrats hope to show Republicans are not serious about solving border issue

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Surreal how far (R) has shifted since then

Old Ron would be called a RINO if he was alive today. He wouldn't get 10% of the nomnaion votes in a Republican Primary with todays MAGA cult...

 

[DaveXA]

Old Ron would be called a RINO if he was alive today. He wouldn't get 10% of the nomnaion votes in a Republican Primary with todays MAGA cult...

No doubt. If there was any clearer evidence of the Republican transition to fascism, this couldn't be more stark.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

No doubt. If there was any clearer evidence of the Republican transition to fascism, this couldn't be more stark.

I feel like it really went down hill with GW. I feel like thats when the R's really started to blindly follow, when the seperation with more going far right...

 

[DaveXA]

I feel like it really went down hill with GW. I feel like thats when the R's really started to blindly follow, when the seperation with more going far right...

I think it was less GW and more Rush Limbaugh and other radio/TV personalities planting those seeds that led to the party being the way it is than anything Bush or any other President did.

You have people who commuted to and from work listening to Rush's poison and that conditioned them to having these wild views about the other party or anyone who doesn't think like them, i.e. RINOs etc. That cult following Rush had are by and large the same people who make up the Trumpers and MAGAs. Which can explain at least in part why Trump has such a cultish following.

The Democrats had their own radio shows, but they never came close to the rabid following that Rush had.

And fwiw, I used to watch Rush's TV show and can totally see the appeal he had to a lot of people. I never did listen to the radio show, but I know my family members would always have it on when driving around town.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I think it was less GW and more Rush Limbaugh and other radio/TV personalities planting those seeds that led to the party being the way it is than anything Bush or any other President did.

You have people who commuted to and from work listening to Rush's poison and that conditioned them to having these wild views about the other party or anyone who doesn't think like them, i.e. RINOs etc. That cult following Rush had are by and large the same people who make up the Trumpers and MAGAs. Which can explain at least in part why Trump has such a cultish following.

The Democrats had their own radio shows, but they never came close to the rabid following that Rush had.

And fwiw, I used to watch Rush's TV show and can totally see the appeal he had to a lot of people. I never did listen to the radio show, but I know my family members would always have it on when driving around town.

Books have literally been written about what happened to the GOP, why it happened, when it started and who's to blame

It’s usually some combination of Rush, Newt and FOX