Immigration is completely out of control (4 Viewers)

[SystemShock]

A couple of days ago, one of the main US-MX border points of entry was blocked by 1000's of migrants demanding entry into the country, which caused chaos for those who lawfully cross the border on business, for work, or for delivery of goods, both ways.

Lawful border crossings are getting progressively worse across the border, and drug cartels are finding it easier to move product, as the CBP has to transfer personnel and efforts to the processing of migrants.

It's not different on MX's South border. Yesterday, ~5000 migrants stormed into Chiapas all the way to the INM building (INM is immigration) running over fences, barricades, and elements of the National Guard. They are now taking over an ecological park in Tapachula, Chiapas, which it's going to be severely affected, as it's been the case with just about everywhere migrants squat.

Unfortunately, Juan Trump (that's Donald Trump's pet name for the President of México) was bamboozled by his "friend" Donald into making MX a "lobby" for migrants trying to reach the U.S.

Many people would argue that migrants are "good for the economy", but that is not always the case. Billions of dollars leave the U.S. economy every year, because migrants send money from the U.S. to other countries to support families there. The biggest destinations are India and MX, to the tune of 100 billion dollars in 2023 alone, according to the Bank of México (kind of like the MX version of the Fed). These billions of dollars do not circulate in the U.S. economy.

Speaking of inflation, the past year, the U.S. dollar has lost ~20% of its value against the MX peso. One of the main reasons for it, is the amount of money being sent to MX from the U.S. And MX is the U.S. 2nd largest trading partner.

Gregg Abbott is a lot of things, but I don't blame him for his attempts at curbing the hordes of people demanding entry into the U.S., even the busing of migrants to other States, making some put their money where their mouth is, like the Mayor of NYC, who was so welcoming of migrants, until he he got a taste, then went crying to the federal government for more money, while the shelters were at full capacity; shelters which BTW serve the NYC poor as well.

And please, no one mention a wall. There is a wall. A wall can be climbed; a wall can be dug under.; holes can be punched through walls.

 

[MT15]

And you support Biden who was accused of raping Tara Reade.

Are you saying that an accusation that was investigated and found without merit is the same as being found to have committed the act by a jury of one’s peers?

 

[cuddlemonkey]

And you support Biden who was accused of raping Tara Reade.

Is that accusation enough to warrant dropping support for Biden?

 

[SystemShock]

I was honestly just curious if you had seen any follow up reports on this kid and his situation. I highly doubt a 10-year old would just tag along on a cross country migrant caravan, but that doesn't tell me what did happen to him. From a whole host of possibility ranging from his parents are horrible people who didn't want the responsibility/cost of raising a kid so they just sent him off, to being the kid of a single mother who didn't have a job and couldn't afford to feed him, to being orphaned and on the street with nobody who was responsible for him and was recruited by gang as a useful tool to get adults across the border. I have no idea what his situation was.

As far as I know, kids traveling by themselves are not deported and become temporary wards of the State. In MX, kids that means, when the INM (immigration) determines a minor is on their own, the minor is then put under DIF (which is a government welfare and social services agency, the Dept for the Family). After that, I am not sure what happens.

But there are a lot of kids making it past the MX Southern border to the U.S. border... so they are either being claimed by someone as family, crossing through the jungle, or abandoned by family on the way.

Again, I don't know. I know that I would never let my child go on a journey like that alone. NEVER! My kid is 17 years old and wanted to walk 6 miles through downtown San Antonio last week after school to go to a meeting for a group he's in. I wanted him to take an Uber, but he insisted he would walk, so I made him text me when he left the school and when he got to where he was walking too because I felt uneasy about it. So I don't believe that is something any "good parent" would do. But I say that from a position where I have never faced starvation, I have never lived in a truly violent situation or neighborhood, I had both my parents growing up, etc. Basically a place of privilegie that I would venture to say none of these people making that journey have grown up in. So what I would or wouldn't do and what they would do out of desperation are likely two very different things.

I don't know that starvation is a problem in C.A.... malnourishment, yes, but that's an issue wherever poverty exists, including the U.S. Particular to C.A. (excluding Costa Rica, Belize, and Panama),the estimates I saw that raise additional concern, is that it is estimated 10% of the population is malnourished, but 20% of kids under 5 are malnourished, probably the result of a combination of ignorance, poverty, and neglect.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I don't know if I'd call them "typical", but sure as heck happen a whole lot;...

That's been my whole point. You very much have made judgemental and categorical statements of migrants based solely on what is a lot of them in numbers, but is a minority in percentages.

1% of more than 2.2 million people per year is more than 22,000 people which is a whole lot of people per year, so showing a whole lot of people doing the things you say they are doing does not prove or indicate that it's typical of the more than 2.2 million people that traveled through Mexico to the US just last year.

..and I never said "all people".

You never literally referred to them as "all people," but you spoke categorically and in absolutes about all of them. Anytime anyone said that your examples wasn't all of them, you balked and made it clear you thought it was norm and not the exception.

Glad to see you're not doing that anymore.

That's all that really matters to me and was the crux of everything I said.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I was honestly just curious if you had seen any follow up reports on this kid and his situation. I highly doubt a 10-year old would just tag along on a cross country migrant caravan, but that doesn't tell me what did happen to him. From a whole host of possibility ranging from his parents are horrible people who didn't want the responsibility/cost of raising a kid so they just sent him off, to being the kid of a single mother who didn't have a job and couldn't afford to feed him, to being orphaned and on the street with nobody who was responsible for him and was recruited by gang as a useful tool to get adults across the border. I have no idea what his situation was.



Again, I don't know. I know that I would never let my child go on a journey like that alone. NEVER! My kid is 17 years old and wanted to walk 6 miles through downtown San Antonio last week after school to go to a meeting for a group he's in. I wanted him to take an Uber, but he insisted he would walk, so I made him text me when he left the school and when he got to where he was walking too because I felt uneasy about it. So I don't believe that is something any "good parent" would do. But I say that from a position where I have never faced starvation, I have never lived in a truly violent situation or neighborhood, I had both my parents growing up, etc. Basically a place of privilegie that I would venture to say none of these people making that journey have grown up in. So what I would or wouldn't do and what they would do out of desperation are likely two very different things.

Another very real possibility is those children were originally traveling with their parents and their parents were killed or they were separated against their parent's will by people or nature.

Another possibility is the parents taught their children what to go join a caravan if their parent were ever to die or disappear, similar to some parents having to teach their children what to do and not do if confronted by police.

I'm mean, that's just two obvious ones to me. If someone starts at the assumption that able bodied parents sent their children alone, then that narrows the possible reasons. Why assume that able bodied parents sent them alone in the first place?

Another thing is that some of the children crossing the border alone didn't travel alone:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2BA11B/

Some children do make the potentially dangerous trip to the border alone or with a smuggler, according to immigration experts. But in other cases, children travel with older siblings, grandparents or other relatives, and can be split apart by CBP after being caught at the border.

Currently, immigrant advocates are concerned that parents may be traveling to the border with their children and sending them to the United States alone so that they will be permitted to enter.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

As far as I know, kids traveling by themselves are not deported and become temporary wards of the State. In MX, kids that means, when the INM (immigration) determines a minor is on their own, the minor is then put under DIF (which is a government welfare and social services agency, the Dept for the Family). After that, I am not sure what happens.

They stay wards of the state and are sent to group or foster homes. My wife and I signed up to be foster parents for them before her Aunt got the big C and had to come stay with us taking the room we were going to use for the kids. We still plan to use that room as a room for migrant children without families eventually.

Having worked with the charity managing this the numbers are not significant compared to children crossing with their families, but there are quite a few in the system right now. For anyone interested in helping these kids:

Short-Term Immigrant Foster Care

Unaccompanied migrant children need temporary homes. Become a short-term immigrant foster parent today and help a refugee or immigrant child.

bethany.org

 

[samiam5211]

They stay wards of the state and are sent to group or foster homes. My wife and I signed up to be foster parents for them before her Aunt got the big C and had to come stay with us taking the room we were going to use for the kids. We still plan to use that room as a room for migrant children without families eventually.

Having worked with the charity managing this the numbers are not significant compared to children crossing with their families, but there are quite a few in the system right now. For anyone interested in helping these kids:

Short-Term Immigrant Foster Care

Unaccompanied migrant children need temporary homes. Become a short-term immigrant foster parent today and help a refugee or immigrant child.

bethany.org

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/I360_sij_performancedata_fy2023_qtr1.pdf

Like you said, it's not anywhere near a significant percentage of the total number of people crossing. Looks like it was about 30,000 in 2022. The trend is increasing though.

Also, many of those kids who get SIJ status end up being placed in the care of extended family here in the US, but there are still thousands who will need a unrelated foster parent.

 

[zztop]

I think someone in this topic mentioned El Salvador - I saw this article about the "world's coolest dictator" huh...

El Salvador's Bukele has everyone's attention as he seeks reelection in spite of the constitution

To many, El Salvador President Nayib Bukele is a national hero who took on the country’s violent gangs with an unrelenting hand.

apnews.com

“Bukele is incredibly popular, not only at home in El Salvador,” Mattiace said. “We see a growing number of people in countries across Latin America who are supporting this kind of authoritarian populism because they believe that it could be the only way to address rising levels of violence.”

 

[MT15]

I think someone in this topic mentioned El Salvador - I saw this article about the "world's coolest dictator" huh...

El Salvador's Bukele has everyone's attention as he seeks reelection in spite of the constitution

To many, El Salvador President Nayib Bukele is a national hero who took on the country’s violent gangs with an unrelenting hand.

apnews.com

“Bukele is incredibly popular, not only at home in El Salvador,” Mattiace said. “We see a growing number of people in countries across Latin America who are supporting this kind of authoritarian populism because they believe that it could be the only way to address rising levels of violence.”

If he was really putting his country first he wouldn’t go against the Constitution. He would work within it IMO. It’s a red flag that he wants power he isn’t entitled to.

 

[Optimus Prime]

EAGLE PASS, Tex. — A motley crew is gathering here this weekend: militia-style groups invoking 1776 and the Civil War. Christian nationalists praying for the chance to confront evil. Racists stoking fear about the “replacement” of White people. Election deniers, anti-vaccination crusaders, conspiracy theorists.


And, at the center, a prominent Republican figure whose fiery rhetoric acts as a magnet.
Right-wing extremists are dusting off the blueprint for the Jan. 6, 2021, storming of the U.S. Capitol and using it to rally support for their cause du jour: Texas Gov. Greg Abbott’s showdown with the federal government over border enforcement.

Monitoring groups warn that Abbott’s posturing, like Trump’s “Stop the Steal” effort, heightens the risk of political violence as supporters converge on Eagle Pass, a frontier outpost of 28,000.


Summed up by one observer as “slow-motion secession,” the unrest in Texas is a case study in how once-fringe ideologies have been laundered into mainstream Republican politics……

Extremism researchers warn that Abbott’s stand against federal orders is communicated in language that glorifies vigilantism and promotes white supremacist talking points, the latest example of the GOP’s hard-right swing in the Trump era.


“This rhetoric, combined with Texas’s standoff with the federal government, is applauded by the same far-right movements that engage in hate crimes, domestic terrorism and were prominent at the January 6 insurrection,” said Heidi Beirich of the nonprofit Global Project Against Hate and Extremism. “All of this should give us pause.”……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/02/02/eagle-pass-texas-border-convoy/

 

[Optimus Prime]

Efforts to fix immigration, apparently, must run on gasoline. That’s the opinion of House Republicans, anyway, whose attempt at addressing the border crisis — known as the Secure the Border Act of 2023 or, simply, H.R. 2 — specifies that “no funds are authorized to be appropriated for electric vehicles.”


The bill doesn’t, in fact, offer funds for anything that might stop immigration. Instead, it demands that the Department of Homeland Security ensure border agents get adequate religious counseling.

While it doesn’t require the Border Patrol to be staffed entirely with anti-vaxxers, it does require DHS to “make every effort to retain Department employees who are not vaccinated against COVID-19.”


The collection of peeves from the culture wars scattered through Republicans’ bill underscores just how crazy it was for anyone to believe the GOP would take an honest shot at solving what has become President Biden’s biggest political headache. Why do that if they can impeach Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas instead!

And yet, the Biden administration’s many sophisticated, creative efforts to slow the flow of humanity toward the southern border seem no more effective than the legislative flotsam offered up by House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) and his friends.


According to the Migration Policy Institute, Biden issued 535 executive actions related to immigration in just three years, well above the 472 executed by President Donald Trump.

Biden, moreover, is looking beyond the brute force favored by his predecessor to stop, cage and expel asylum seekers, crafting policies to deter unlawful entry and steer migrants toward official channels.

Despite all the creative policymaking, though, U.S. border agents have recorded some 6.3 million encounters with migrants since Biden took office. More than 2.4 million were allowed into the country.

And they keep coming. In December, they hit 370,000, a record. Of them, 250,000 were encountered dashing unlawfully across the border — exactly the practice the administration has tried so hard to stop……

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/02/gop-immigration-legislation-unserious/

 

[LovesMusic7360]

A couple of days ago, one of the main US-MX border points of entry was blocked by 1000's of migrants demanding entry into the country, which caused chaos for those who lawfully cross the border on business, for work, or for delivery of goods, both ways.

Lawful border crossings are getting progressively worse across the border, and drug cartels are finding it easier to move product, as the CBP has to transfer personnel and efforts to the processing of migrants.

It's not different on MX's South border. Yesterday, ~5000 migrants stormed into Chiapas all the way to the INM building (INM is immigration) running over fences, barricades, and elements of the National Guard. They are now taking over an ecological park in Tapachula, Chiapas, which it's going to be severely affected, as it's been the case with just about everywhere migrants squat.

Unfortunately, Juan Trump (that's Donald Trump's pet name for the President of México) was bamboozled by his "friend" Donald into making MX a "lobby" for migrants trying to reach the U.S.

Many people would argue that migrants are "good for the economy", but that is not always the case. Billions of dollars leave the U.S. economy every year, because migrants send money from the U.S. to other countries to support families there. The biggest destinations are India and MX, to the tune of 100 billion dollars in 2023 alone, according to the Bank of México (kind of like the MX version of the Fed). These billions of dollars do not circulate in the U.S. economy.

Speaking of inflation, the past year, the U.S. dollar has lost ~20% of its value against the MX peso. One of the main reasons for it, is the amount of money being sent to MX from the U.S. And MX is the U.S. 2nd largest trading partner.

Gregg Abbott is a lot of things, but I don't blame him for his attempts at curbing the hordes of people demanding entry into the U.S., even the busing of migrants to other States, making some put their money where their mouth is, like the Mayor of NYC, who was so welcoming of migrants, until he he got a taste, then went crying to the federal government for more money, while the shelters were at full capacity; shelters which BTW serve the NYC poor as well.

And please, no one mention a wall. There is a wall. A wall can be climbed; a wall can be dug under.; holes can be punched through walls.

This was on the MSN homepage today.

It's very different from what has been reported in other media.

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/maga-convoy-confused-by-lack-of-invasion-as-they-arrive-at-border

 

[LovesMusic7360]

As far as I know, kids traveling by themselves are not deported and become temporary wards of the State. In MX, kids that means, when the INM (immigration) determines a minor is on their own, the minor is then put under DIF (which is a government welfare and social services agency, the Dept for the Family). After that, I am not sure what happens.

But there are a lot of kids making it past the MX Southern border to the U.S. border... so they are either being claimed by someone as family, crossing through the jungle, or abandoned by family on the way.



I don't know that starvation is a problem in C.A.... malnourishment, yes, but that's an issue wherever poverty exists, including the U.S. Particular to C.A. (excluding Costa Rica, Belize, and Panama),the estimates I saw that raise additional concern, is that it is estimated 10% of the population is malnourished, but 20% of kids under 5 are malnourished, probably the result of a combination of ignorance, poverty, and neglect.

This article was first published in The NY Times in 2019.

It's why people from Guatemala come north.

Opinion ‘Food Doesn’t Grow Here Anymore. That’s Why I Would Send My Son North.’ – Wine And Water Watch

winewaterwatch.org

Despite what the conservatives say, global climate change is real.

It will cause even more migration.

 

[BarneyGumble]

How to stop illegals from coming into the US: heavily fine any business found hiring them, and drop them from all government benefits.

When these two honeypots disappear, a lot of illegals will stop coming.

 

[fooferdoggie]

How to stop illegals from coming into the US: heavily fine any business found hiring them, and drop them from all government benefits.

When these two honeypots disappear, a lot of illegals will stop coming.

can you imagine republicans doing that? but that would only effect the ones coming for work.

 

[zztop]

And then people will be in an uproar, when all those farmers have to hire legit citizens of the US, at real wages, and pass the expense to the consumers

 

[UriUT]

This has been tried and quietly reversed.

How America's harshest immigration law failed

Alabama tried to kick out its undocumented immigrants with the harshest law in the country. Two year's later, the law's in ruins and the immigrants remain.

www.nbcnews.com

Alabama anti-immigrant law gets new life under Trump

H.B. 56, Alabama's 2011 anti-immigrant law, is still on the books and having impacts on communities despite the conventional knowledge that it was entirely overturned or repealed.

www.al.com

Alabama’s Immigration Disaster

A report from Tom Baxter reviews the economic and social harm caused by H.B. 56 in Alabama.

www.americanprogress.org

This issue screams of "But the trade deficit with China" of 2016. Immigration is a net positive economically.

A Burden to America? Immigration and the Economy | St. Louis Fed

Many Americans believe that immigration hurts U.S. workers and the economy, despite a decline in the immigration rate. Economists find the opposite to be true.

www.stlouisfed.org

And haven't we already discussed that the majority of illegal immigrations are visa overstays since 2017?

 

[samiam5211]

This has been tried and quietly reversed.

How America's harshest immigration law failed

Alabama tried to kick out its undocumented immigrants with the harshest law in the country. Two year's later, the law's in ruins and the immigrants remain.

www.nbcnews.com

Alabama anti-immigrant law gets new life under Trump

H.B. 56, Alabama's 2011 anti-immigrant law, is still on the books and having impacts on communities despite the conventional knowledge that it was entirely overturned or repealed.

www.al.com

Alabama’s Immigration Disaster

A report from Tom Baxter reviews the economic and social harm caused by H.B. 56 in Alabama.

www.americanprogress.org

This issue screams of "But the trade deficit with China" of 2016. Immigration is a net positive economically.

A Burden to America? Immigration and the Economy | St. Louis Fed

Many Americans believe that immigration hurts U.S. workers and the economy, despite a decline in the immigration rate. Economists find the opposite to be true.

www.stlouisfed.org

And haven't we already discussed that the majority of illegal immigrations are visa overstays since 2017?

I was reading through the Republican immigration proposal HR2 the other day.

It would punish visa overstays with 6 months in jail, and would massively increase enforcement of it.

Imagine if that became law and our jails were full of white Europeans from friendly countries who hadn't committed any crimes other than overstaying their visa.