How to improve American Education in 2021. (4 Viewers)

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Paul

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The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science.


My suggestion is rather simple.

1. Study why immigrants from East Asia, India, and Nigeria do well with American education. Apply that insight to other groups (if possible).
2. Manage public schools as if though they were private schools with uniforms and discipline.
3. Create high end special schools for those that are truly disenfranchised.
4. Create a force of social workers to treat family dysfunction with regards to education.
5. Reduce the curriculum to the simple basics and repeat that on a yearly basis.
6. At about 10th grade divide college bound students away from non-college bound.
7. Provide solid basic education and trade training for non-college bound kids. There is no point in offering free college to these kids.
 
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wardorican

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So, you guys are a hard 'no' child protective services as well then?
Probably not, but it is funny how the family unit is suddenly very important when it is politically beneficial or when Paul has an thought that is actually worth discussing.
I thought I was a bur under people saddle but this dude is renting space in yall head like ole boy Trump.
Is being raised by a single mother or father grounds to have CPS / DFS called on them?

I wish you'd flesh out whatever point you're trying to make, because you went so hard for a zinger, you missed making a point.
 

Goatman saint

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Is being raised by a single mother or father grounds to have CPS / DFS called on them?

I wish you'd flesh out whatever point you're trying to make, because you went so hard for a zinger, you missed making a point.
Man if that’s the case I have ALOT of paperwork to do tomorrow
 
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Paul

Paul

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I'm not a teacher. I'm a Metallurgical / Materials Science Engineer. I have one kid in college and another that is in 10th grade. I've been the one helping with homework after dinner for the last few years (luckily less lately). I've gone through common core with the youngest.

Personally, I've forgotten more math than most people ever learn.


Schools already do this based on standardized testing scores and general aptitude / attitude.

https://www.browardschools.com/Page/31944

https://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/5652/urlt/CareerClusterInfographics.pdf

Also, based on standardized test scores, they help focus on the 'basics' as you stated. My youngest struggled with math one year, because her teacher, in my opinion, wasn't very good. I did what I could, but also, my child at that age was amazingly stubborn. We've gotten past that. However, the year after that, she had to take two math courses. One was the regular course, the other was essentially a remedial or reinforcing course. Luckily, she had a really good teacher and got her head screwed on correctly, and she's now back to higher test scores, and understanding math better.

Education gap is one thing, but the other part you're talking about with ivy league schools is what you get into later with the Matthew Effect. That's a whole different animal, at least for the elite. But yes, a head start is always helpful. I stated that in my original post when I was talking about...

"Social workers and helping 'cure' family dysfunction. Yeah, they try. Good luck. Sure, the American Education system would be a lot better if every student was motivated, rich, with both parents, fully fed, well rested, etc. But not everyone is like that. How we raise people from poverty, create better households, better marriages, is such a massive topic, I'm honestly ignoring it. You can't fix it with a magic wand, let alone anything realistic. We have to cook with the ingredients we have. So, we have to teach the kids we have, good and crappy households. I'm not saying ignore all that, but I feel like your politics are at odds with wanting to help families get out of poverty, outside of just wanting them to figure it out on their own. That's just pointless bluster."


I'm a big proponent of STEM jobs and careers. But I think you're a bit misguided. What do you consider a Business Degree? Many people who work in HR have a psychology background or others. I know people with an anthropology degree (which, is a mix of STEM and LA), who is high up in a non profit. One of my best friends got a media marketing degree (like think TV and commercials), and is very high up in a hurricane glass manufacturing / installation company making a stupid amount of money (far more than me) and he was a TERRIBLE high school student. But, he wised up enough later. He's still kind of an idiot though, haha.



I have no qualms about tackling the home environment. I'm just saying that's a tall order. Whereas providing resources, teachers, aides, technology to schools helps. Also, cultivating parental involvement. That's as much the right Principal as it is the right family's in the community.

But my main driving point is that so many schools already do the things you're saying they need to do. Maybe, instead of just stating what you think needs to be done, you spend more time understanding not only the problem, but what IS being done.

Be inquisitive vs authoritative. Just some advice.
I had five kids. Two were awesome in math and I never hd to do homework with them. Two were not that good in math and I used to get frustrated as I did homework with them. I could also see the teacher was not that good. They studied liberal arts. The one in the middle was never into any math. Guess who did the best academically and economically? The ones that breezed thru math!

Maybe I am too optimistic about giving those at the bottom a better opportunity. It seems that the task is not an easy one. My point is that it is better to save a few than to save none. I believe that kids in a more disciplined environment with adequate mentoring can do better. I am astounded at the resistance to trying something new. I suppose the public sector does not want competition.

I'm not a teacher. I'm a Metallurgical / Materials Science Engineer.
Sounds like the last job Isaac Newton had.
 

wardorican

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I had five kids. Two were awesome in math and I never hd to do homework with them. Two were not that good in math and I used to get frustrated as I did homework with them. I could also see the teacher was not that good. They studied liberal arts. The one in the middle was never into any math. Guess who did the best academically and economically? The ones that breezed thru math!

Maybe I am too optimistic about giving those at the bottom a better opportunity. It seems that the task is not an easy one. My point is that it is better to save a few than to save none. I believe that kids in a more disciplined environment with adequate mentoring can do better. I am astounded at the resistance to trying something new. I suppose the public sector does not want competition.


Sounds like the last job Isaac Newton had.
I think you're misplacing the resistance. it's not to new ideas. it's to potentially bad ones, or to you not taking the time to understand what is currently going on, what has worked, what hasn't, and what is actually in our control to change.

Again, I think you've identified quite a few of the common problems. I'm not convinced your solutions are viable, or novel. Again, some are already currently done.
 

dtc

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I had five kids. Two were awesome in math and I never hd to do homework with them. Two were not that good in math and I used to get frustrated as I did homework with them. I could also see the teacher was not that good. They studied liberal arts. The one in the middle was never into any math. Guess who did the best academically and economically? The ones that breezed thru math!

Maybe I am too optimistic about giving those at the bottom a better opportunity. It seems that the task is not an easy one. My point is that it is better to save a few than to save none. I believe that kids in a more disciplined environment with adequate mentoring can do better. I am astounded at the resistance to trying something new. I suppose the public sector does not want competition.


Sounds like the last job Isaac Newton had.

If you think you can pluck children from their parents and send them to 100,000 new versions of Georgetown Prep or my favorite, The Lawrenceville School, by pilfering instructors from other schools then "too optimistic" is a wildly in accurate descriptive term.
 
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Paul

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If you think you can pluck children from their parents and send them to 100,000 new versions of Georgetown Prep or my favorite, The Lawrenceville School, by pilfering instructors from other schools then "too optimistic" is a wildly in accurate descriptive term.
Sure, I know is an ambitious plan. What is the alternative? More of the same? How many times have you heard a politician tell the voters they need more money for schools. The old "let's throw more money to the problem" pandering trick. It has not worked.
 

SFIDC3

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I would staff the school with the same teachers that staff private prep schools. In my neck of the woods I would recruit teachers form Georgetown Prep, Holy Cross, Gonzaga, etc.

I've hesitated commenting on this ridiculous thread but can't pass up this comment. For god sakes, I would put the teaching staff of the public schools in this area (Churchill, Wooten, Walter Johnson, Whitman) up against any of the staffs of the private schools listed here. "Throwing money" at the public schools does work, and yes the areas the schools are in are mostly affluent. BUT, there are tons of one parent, dysfunctional households that produce very good students....these blanket statements are moronic.

States like LA will never strive to greatly improve the public education issues because they aren't willing to make the financial commitments to do so....
 

Farb

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Is being raised by a single mother or father grounds to have CPS / DFS called on them?

I wish you'd flesh out whatever point you're trying to make, because you went so hard for a zinger, you missed making a point.
Not at all. Dysfunctional families, in the extent the definition lays out for extreme dysfunctional. I was thinking more along the lines of a parent being a drug addict, sex addict, whatever else you want to throw. A single parent home doesn't equal dysfunctional but if a kid is in a dysfunctional environment, why not explore the option of boarding schools to help the kid get out of the situation and give them a chance.
Obviously, I don't think the state should run the boarding school.
 

Farb

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When and where?
I can't remember who said it as I am usually bantering with several people, but I remember it was kind of a drive by. Feel free if you have sometime to go back and look it up and let us know.
 
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Paul

Paul

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I've hesitated commenting on this ridiculous thread but can't pass up this comment. For god sakes, I would put the teaching staff of the public schools in this area (Churchill, Wooten, Walter Johnson, Whitman) up against any of the staffs of the private schools listed here. "Throwing money" at the public schools does work, and yes the areas the schools are in are mostly affluent. BUT, there are tons of one parent, dysfunctional households that produce very good students....these blanket statements are moronic.

States like LA will never strive to greatly improve the public education issues because they aren't willing to make the financial commitments to do so....
Sure, I would recruit teachers from those schools too.

Sure there are one parent dysfunctional households that produce good students, but in America studies show that kids from two parent homes academically outperform the kids from one parent home. That is at the group level. I am sure that at the individual level there are exceptions. What is your point? Are you using the exception as an argument?

Throwing money at the problem has not worked unless you live in Bethesda, MD.
 

CoolBrees

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@Paul -

I am really trying to understand here.

you show graphs on how the US spends a boatload per student and it is not effective. Only successful dual partner households succeed.

you then state that the money being spent on low income and single family kids is a waste of resources….

Thus the system is a failure, you have exclaimed….

With no empirical evidence given on why other than a handful of graphs from the very partisan Cato Institute.

…..But the way to fix the system, in your opinion, is to spend 100’s of billions constructing new facilities, hiring top notch educators (from?) and completely overhauling the educational system as a whole, to educate these same kids. Huh?

How does the latter fix or even address the former? Are you really suggesting the public schools are going to pry teachers away from boarding schools or other successful institutions? How?

Your “plan” is pure fantasy. You might as well just go ahead and say we should hire Dumbeldore to be headmaster of a school. He’d do great! Look how he helped that one boy who was from a broken family!

BTW- I am a public school product. My father was in the military and retired as a Lt. Col. The definition of middle class. I went to a public university and got an engineering degree. Both parents are white and they are still married today since that matters to you. I got in more trouble and was given more chances by the schools, the police and the courts than any one person should be given. Why? Because “boys will be boys” and I was a “good kid from a good family.” All of the wink-and-nod white privilege some say doesn’t exist was utilized in my defense. I skated for the first 25 years of my life because I was white and male and really good at math.

So was my story transferable? Can someone who worked harder than me in school and had less privilege say they would have gotten the same opportunity? if only both of their parents didn’t have to work to put food on the table or if their mom was a single parent? If they would have messed up as a kid, would they be given the treatment I was given if they came from a poor background (without the patriotic military dad twist to boot)?

Right. But keep blaming single moms and lack of religion.
 

Goatman saint

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You keep saying throwing money at education doesn’t work. But yet your solutions would be ridiculously expensive. Here’s another sad fact. There are simply not enough good teachers because the pay scale sucks. You want top tier teachers (although you keep stating that parents in highly successful areas have kids that naturally do better ……how much better are those teachers?) but then rail on against cost.
And yet again. Test scores are not a true measure of success. If it was I’d be in the top .01% of earners and my wife would be poverty ridden.
 

MT15

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I can't remember who said it as I am usually bantering with several people, but I remember it was kind of a drive by. Feel free if you have sometime to go back and look it up and let us know.
Sorry, I won’t run errands for you. I’m not the one who made the accusation, you are.

So I think it’s safe to assume it didn’t happen n
 

dtc

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Sure, I know is an ambitious plan. What is the alternative? More of the same? How many times have you heard a politician tell the voters they need more money for schools. The old "let's throw more money to the problem" pandering trick. It has not worked.

It's not ambitious. It's delusional. And, what it would be, is throwing money at it.

I'm not going to pretend I know the solution and I'm not going to disagree that better family structures, better teachers, and more efficiency isn't part of it, but that's a tall damn order.

You can't even get americans to get a damn vaccine to save their lives and you're off in never-neverland thinking we can duplicate the Hun School and Darlington Prep on every corner.

Perhaps we could provide healthcare for everyone and maybe do something about teaching actual science and math instead of sabotaging what passes as public education in order to fund private jesus on the dinosaur nonsense.
 

Farb

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Sorry, I won’t run errands for you. I’m not the one who made the accusation, you are.

So I think it’s safe to assume it didn’t happen n
Then I would suggest you remember that the next time you ask me to run an errand for you. But, I am a nice guy, not some grouch so here you go. Don't say I never did anything important for you because this obviously import to you. Why else would you follow me around with this for 4 pages. I like tulips. Not a rose fan.
The best way to teach kids in America is to make it illegal for parents to put their kids in private schools that teach Jesus riding on a dinosaur and anything that has an Abecka book. From there, you eliminate any funding for religious schools.

And, maybe prioritize actual education over football stadiums and fancy buildings. Paying teachers would be a good idea too.
 
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Paul

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It's not ambitious. It's delusional. And, what it would be, is throwing money at it.

I'm not going to pretend I know the solution and I'm not going to disagree that better family structures, better teachers, and more efficiency isn't part of it, but that's a tall damn order.

You can't even get americans to get a damn vaccine to save their lives and you're off in never-neverland thinking we can duplicate the Hun School and Darlington Prep on every corner.

Perhaps we could provide healthcare for everyone and maybe do something about teaching actual science and math instead of sabotaging what passes as public education in order to fund private jesus on the dinosaur nonsense.
The educational gap is a big contributor to the wealth gap. We are living in the most prosperous time in world history and yet you guys show little compassion to the people that are in perennial despair living in neighborhoods with no good education.

The plan is expensive, but is targeted to descendants of slaves. It is reparations and will not be available to other minorities or women. The problem with other programs is that it benefited people that did not really need that much help such as white women, immigrants, and blacks from Africa rather than America.

As for healthcare I favor Medicare for all.
 

Goatman saint

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The educational gap is a big contributor to the wealth gap. We are living in the most prosperous time in world history and yet you guys show little compassion to the people that are in perennial despair living in neighborhoods with no good education.

The plan is expensive, but is targeted to descendants of slaves. It is reparations and will not be available to other minorities or women. The problem with other programs is that it benefited people that did not really need that much help such as white women, immigrants, and blacks from Africa rather than America.
Omg. Did I just read that? You sir just went off the deep end on that one.
 

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