How to improve American Education in 2021. (1 Viewer)

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Paul

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The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science.


My suggestion is rather simple.

1. Study why immigrants from East Asia, India, and Nigeria do well with American education. Apply that insight to other groups (if possible).
2. Manage public schools as if though they were private schools with uniforms and discipline.
3. Create high end special schools for those that are truly disenfranchised.
4. Create a force of social workers to treat family dysfunction with regards to education.
5. Reduce the curriculum to the simple basics and repeat that on a yearly basis.
6. At about 10th grade divide college bound students away from non-college bound.
7. Provide solid basic education and trade training for non-college bound kids. There is no point in offering free college to these kids.
 
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cuddlemonkey

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So, you guys are a hard 'no' child protective services as well then?
Probably not, but it is funny how the family unit is suddenly very important when it is politically beneficial or when Paul has an thought that is actually worth discussing.
I thought I was a bur under people saddle but this dude is renting space in yall head like ole boy Trump.

And why would you think this is true?
 

Farb

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What is really perplexing is that he completely missed Paul’s extremely authoritarian proposal that children be removed from either single parent or homes deemed dysfunctional and sent to boarding schools. 🤷‍♀️
 

Goatman saint

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So, you guys are a hard 'no' child protective services as well then?
Probably not, but it is funny how the family unit is suddenly very important when it is politically beneficial or when Paul has an thought that is actually worth discussing.
I thought I was a bur under people saddle but this dude is renting space in yall head like ole boy Trump.
A hard no on CPS? Not at all. I also don’t believe anyone in here has done that. But wholesale removal of children and put into boarding schools. No. Also, as I’ve said numerous times poverty does not equal dysfunction. Single parent does not equal dysfunction. There are plenty of upper and middle class kids who come from dysfunction. Columbine ring a bell?
 

MT15

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Farb, we have not discussed abusive situations at all. So you bringing up CPS is just out of nowhere. We were discussing children who come from single parent homes or who don’t have much money or aren’t doing so well in the classroom. Paul hasn’t been super specific about his criteria for sending kids away from their homes, though.

You comfortable with the state deciding your children need to go to boarding school? That’s pretty darn authoritative IMO. Maybe you could explain why you think it’s a good idea?

I must admit it’s surprising to me you who champion home schooling would be okay with this sort of thing. What better way to indoctrinate kids than remove them from their homes?
 
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Paul

Paul

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No this is what Paul wants to do with them. It’s been tried before. By the way they were Christian schools also.
I am well aware of that disaster. However, I am talking about a local school where the kids spend the week with mentors and state of the art education.
 

dtc

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I am well aware of that disaster. However, I am talking about a local school where the kids spend the week with mentors and state of the art education.

So, you're ok with snatching kids out of their homes and away from their parents and forcing them into religious schools on the tax payers' nickel if you deem them "dysfunctional" but not in support of mask mandates, vaccine mandates, abortion access, social safety net policies, no?
 

Goatman saint

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I am well aware of that disaster. However, I am talking about a local school where the kids spend the week with mentors and state of the art education.
Who will oversee? Who will staff? Who will pay for a “state of the art” education? What is a state of the art education? How will you measure it? How will you determine its success? What accountability will it have? Who is going to be judge and jury as to functional/dysfunctional families? Who will pay for the lawsuits when you put these in poor rural/migrant/inner cities? How will you encourage children and adults to sign away their rights for weeks at a time? What will you do if said program doesn’t work? Flesh this out a bit for me.
 
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Paul

Paul

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Who will oversee?
Not the current people in charge of public education. They are doing an awful job. It would be run like the charter schools.
Who will staff?
I would staff the school with the same teachers that staff private prep schools. In my neck of the woods I would recruit teachers form Georgetown Prep, Holy Cross, Gonzaga, etc.
Who will pay for a “state of the art” education?
All of us. It is reparations for descendants of slaves.
What is a state of the art education?
Elite private schools Georgetown Prep and Eton High School in England, etc.
How will you measure it?
As we are doing now.
How will you determine its success?
This will take a few years. Hopefully the system will produce polite educated gentlemen that have a bright future Any gain in academics is better than the current ground zero.
What accountability will it have?
The testing will do. It will be no different than a charter school. The local government can do the oversight. For example the DC Public Charter School Board (PCSB) is an independent agency that provides oversight to all the public charter schools in the District.
Who is going to be judge and jury as to functional/dysfunctional families?
No one. As a general rule when these types of schools open up the number of applicants is sky high. If some parents do not want to take advantage of the school so be it. They can stay in the local neighborhood school. By the way in many areas the good parents line up for days to get their kids into a good school.

Who will pay for the lawsuits when you put these in poor rural/migrant/inner cities?
Why a lawsuit? Can you explain?
How will you encourage children and adults to sign away their rights for weeks at a time?
That is a straw man.
What will you do if said program doesn’t work?
The current has not worked for decades. What have you guys done?
Flesh this out a bit for me.
See above
 

MT15

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Okay, Paul, you have contradicted yourself. First you say that taking kids to boarding schools will make up for their terrible home life, because having good parents is what they are lacking.

Then when you specify you say the good parents will line up to get their kids into these schools.

In that case, how will you reach the kids you said need it the most?
 
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Paul

Paul

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Okay, Paul, you have contradicted yourself. First you say that taking kids to boarding schools will make up for their terrible home life, because having good parents is what they are lacking.

Then when you specify you say the good parents will line up to get their kids into these schools.

In that case, how will you reach the kids you said need it the most?
You are correct!
America is a free nation and hence the state cannot coerce parents to be good parents and to bring the kids to the best available school. However, many other parents will recognize the benefit and bring the kids to the school. It is best to save some than to not save anyone.
 

MT15

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Sorry, but it’s hard to see how this helps any of the kids you say you want to help. If they have good parents, they don’t really need to go to boarding school.

If they don’t have good parents then these not so good parents won’t take advantage of this opportunity. 🤷‍♀️
 

Goatman saint

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Not the current people in charge of public education. They are doing an awful job. It would be run like the charter schools.

I would staff the school with the same teachers that staff private prep schools. In my neck of the woods I would recruit teachers form Georgetown Prep, Holy Cross, Gonzaga, etc.

All of us. It is reparations for descendants of slaves.

Elite private schools Georgetown Prep and Eton High School in England, etc.

As we are doing now.

This will take a few years. Hopefully the system will produce polite educated gentlemen that have a bright future Any gain in academics is better than the current ground zero.

The testing will do. It will be no different than a charter school. The local government can do the oversight. For example the DC Public Charter School Board (PCSB) is an independent agency that provides oversight to all the public charter schools in the District.

No one. As a general rule when these types of schools open up the number of applicants is sky high. If some parents do not want to take advantage of the school so be it. They can stay in the local neighborhood school. By the way in many areas the good parents line up for days to get their kids into a good school.


Why a lawsuit? Can you explain?

That is a straw man.

The current has not worked for decades. What have you guys done?

See above
Example of how you think you know what you are talking about, but in reality have no clue
 

cuddlemonkey

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You are correct!
America is a free nation and hence the state cannot coerce parents to be good parents and to bring the kids to the best available school. However, many other parents will recognize the benefit and bring the kids to the school. It is best to save some than to not save anyone.

She called you a hypocrite and you agreed, then failed to address anything else.

On an unrelated note, I just found a shiny nickel on the ground.
 
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Paul

Paul

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Sorry, but it’s hard to see how this helps any of the kids you say you want to help. If they have good parents, they don’t really need to go to boarding school.

If they don’t have good parents then these not so good parents won’t take advantage of this opportunity. 🤷‍♀️
Why are you guys defending the status quo of poor education?
 

wardorican

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How many of you guys are school teachers? I think I confused you with another poster who also teaches.
Are you the trigonometry teacher?
I'm not a teacher. I'm a Metallurgical / Materials Science Engineer. I have one kid in college and another that is in 10th grade. I've been the one helping with homework after dinner for the last few years (luckily less lately). I've gone through common core with the youngest.

Personally, I've forgotten more math than most people ever learn.

The system is broken for those that struggle and those in the middle. The smart kids likely score as well as any other international student.
I would do as the Germans and Japanese. At some point some kids would be directed to practical careers that do not require a formal college education. The others would receive a college prep education. Ultimately I worry about the education gap and how it generates a gap inn income. At the same time we are creating an oligarchy of super talented that go to Ivy League schools where they married others Ivy Leagues and continue to procreate an elite class. It is no accident that all the children of Al Gore went to Harvard.
Schools already do this based on standardized testing scores and general aptitude / attitude.

https://www.browardschools.com/Page/31944

https://www.fldoe.org/core/fileparse.php/5652/urlt/CareerClusterInfographics.pdf

Also, based on standardized test scores, they help focus on the 'basics' as you stated. My youngest struggled with math one year, because her teacher, in my opinion, wasn't very good. I did what I could, but also, my child at that age was amazingly stubborn. We've gotten past that. However, the year after that, she had to take two math courses. One was the regular course, the other was essentially a remedial or reinforcing course. Luckily, she had a really good teacher and got her head screwed on correctly, and she's now back to higher test scores, and understanding math better.

Education gap is one thing, but the other part you're talking about with ivy league schools is what you get into later with the Matthew Effect. That's a whole different animal, at least for the elite. But yes, a head start is always helpful. I stated that in my original post when I was talking about...

"Social workers and helping 'cure' family dysfunction. Yeah, they try. Good luck. Sure, the American Education system would be a lot better if every student was motivated, rich, with both parents, fully fed, well rested, etc. But not everyone is like that. How we raise people from poverty, create better households, better marriages, is such a massive topic, I'm honestly ignoring it. You can't fix it with a magic wand, let alone anything realistic. We have to cook with the ingredients we have. So, we have to teach the kids we have, good and crappy households. I'm not saying ignore all that, but I feel like your politics are at odds with wanting to help families get out of poverty, outside of just wanting them to figure it out on their own. That's just pointless bluster."

The STEM field is fertile with job opportunities. The liberal arts are fine for those that have no science and math ability. Some technical jobs that are mostly on the job training still prefer college graduates. You also have the truly gifted that can excel in any field (STEM or not) because they are super smart.
I'm a big proponent of STEM jobs and careers. But I think you're a bit misguided. What do you consider a Business Degree? Many people who work in HR have a psychology background or others. I know people with an anthropology degree (which, is a mix of STEM and LA), who is high up in a non profit. One of my best friends got a media marketing degree (like think TV and commercials), and is very high up in a hurricane glass manufacturing / installation company making a stupid amount of money (far more than me) and he was a TERRIBLE high school student. But, he wised up enough later. He's still kind of an idiot though, haha. EDIT: I forgot to mention, his parents divorced when he was 8 years old. It probably did affect his schooling, but he's very successful, happily married and has two great kids.

I agree. My daughters only did it for a year and it was hard work to teach grades K-1-2.

I am simply looking at what works. It is clear that kids form great homes do better, Why not tackle the home environment?
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I have no qualms about tackling the home environment. I'm just saying that's a tall order. Whereas providing resources, teachers, aides, technology to schools helps. Also, cultivating parental involvement. That's as much the right Principal as it is the right family's in the community.

But my main driving point is that so many schools already do the things you're saying they need to do. Maybe, instead of just stating what you think needs to be done, you spend more time understanding not only the problem, but what IS being done.

Be inquisitive vs authoritative. Just some advice.
 
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