How Low Will the Democratic Party go Re: Bernie (1 Viewer)

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    Beach Friends

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    Last week Elizabeth Warren, who may have the worst political instincts of anyone in the race, tried to derail the Sanders' campaign by claiming he told her a woman could not be elected president. From what I can tell, this backfired on Warren as frequently happens with her stunts.

    Not only did it hurt her, it also exposed her co-conspritator CNN. It's not exactly breaking news, but the CNN propaganda machine is not fit to host a political debate.

    This week, Bernie took a clip from one of Joe Rogan's podcasts and used it to promote his campaign. It wasn't exactly an endorsement, but Joe said he will probably vote for Bernie and that he is impressed that Bernie has been consistent.

    Of course, when you live on the left you are always run the risk of offending your fellow progressives and sure enough some people started losing their minds claiming that Rogan is not only "right wing" but also transphobic.

    Many of Bernie's followers believe, with good reason, that the DNC was less than fair to Bernie last year. Despite the fact Bernie campaigned for the Hillary, a significant percentage of Bernie's supporters decided not to vote for Hillary. There are rumblings that his supporters will be even less likely to vote for a Democratic nominee not named Bernie.

    Hillary has been acting like Hillary, badmouthing the man who campaigned for her in 2016. There are rumors that Obama may speak out against Bernie.

    Sounds like troubled waters are ahead for the Democratic party as Bernie's campaign continues to pick up steam.
     
    You have surely noticed the similarities? How could you notOf course I should have said some Trump supporters as well, but that seemed awkward in the flow of the sentence.

    You haven’t seen people claim that Trump was sent by God to save America? You haven’t seen the social media posts that call him God Emperor?

    And yes, both extremes approach each other in lots of ways, but that’s not primarily what I meant. Sorry, Ward, lol

    It’s the cult of personality aspects, it’s the idea that their guy is the only guy who can do right, it’s the demonization of opposition. We’ve seen it before.

    I should emphasize again that there is a difference, though. Trump promotes this attitude and the divisiveness, while I think it probably makes Bernie a bit uncomfortable.
    thanks, but I’m not looking for theory. I’m curious as to the actions she is referencing.

    It's ok, I'm fine with being incorrect. ;)

    and then properly corrected.
     
    JoeOKC

    "As a registered independent, I can vote in the Democratic Primaries."

    I did not know that. I am a registered independent also. Can I vote also in the GOP primary?
    Depends on your State's rules.

    In Florida, you have to be registered to a party. It's actually the only reason I registered as a Democrat. Many elections were actually settled in the Primary, and never got to the general in Broward county. And if you want a proper voice in this county, you need to be a democrat.
     
    ANd that's a shame because she actually has the best chance of all to beat Trump. She seems to have her head on her shoulders squarely..

    I don' think that's true at all. Democrats would mostly stay home. Too many Republicans or GOP leaning independents could never pull the lever for anyone with a D by their name.
     
    I think you are ignoring the extent of the issue, especially on social media. Some of Sanders’ followers have a lot in common with Trump supporters, and dismissing the observation doesn’t make it untrue. Women have been targeted especially hard on social media by Sanders supporters. I’m not suggesting he condones that behavior or anything, quite the opposite. But you cannot just pretend it isn’t there or it’s not happening.

    See, this is where i have a problem. I am on social media including Twitter a lot. I can tell you that those truly doing this in a sexist manner I've literally hardly ever seen. So that makes me wonder, what are some specific examples? Are you just talking about Sanders supporters criticizing candidates that happen to be women?

    I'm not saying there aren't outliers. I certainly believe there are. But i do not believe the claim that the are a great number of Sanders supporters who are sexist. Passionate? Of course. But it's important we define the difference before making a pretty big claim like their supporters are like a bunch of Trump supporters. That's where we have to dig in before we can let that slide as some sort of fact without challenge.
     
    From the Oklahoma Election Board.

    A primary election is an election in which registered voters select a candidate that they believe should be a political party's candidate for elected office to run in the general election. They are also used to choose convention delegates and party leaders. Primaries are state-level and local-level elections that take place prior to a general election. --->>> In Oklahoma, the Republican Party conducts a closed primary, in which only registered party members may participate. The Democratic Party holds a semi-closed primary, in which unaffiliated voters may participate<<<----
     
    See, this is where i have a problem. I am on social media including Twitter a lot. I can tell you that those truly doing this in a sexist manner I've literally hardly ever seen. So that makes me wonder, what are some specific examples? Are you just talking about Sanders supporters criticizing candidates that happen to be women?

    I'm not saying there aren't outliers. I certainly believe there are. But i do not believe the claim that the are a great number of Sanders supporters who are sexist. Passionate? Of course. But it's important we define the difference before making a pretty big claim like their supporters are like a bunch of Trump supporters. That's where we have to dig in before we can let that slide as some sort of fact without challenge.

    I 100% disagree with your characterization of trump supporters.

    I 100% agree with the actual premise of your post.
     
    I 100% disagree with your characterization of trump supporters.

    I 100% agree with the actual premise of your post.

    This is part of the problem, and I'll admit a mistake to say that on my part. Sometimes it's easy to get into the echo chamber cycle of something repeated and you realize once out of it, you probably should readjust your view.

    I should edit to say there are supporters in every group, Trump, Sanders, Clinton, Biden, whatever.. That are unhealthy and divisive. I know it may not be popular to admit, but acting like it's just a sect of Trump supporters that act a certain way is both unhelpful and incorrect. I think we all know it's human beings and there are good and bad apples in each bunch.
     
    I'm not saying there aren't outliers. I certainly believe there are. But i do not believe the claim that the are a great number of Sanders supporters who are sexist. Passionate? Of course. But it's important we define the difference before making a pretty big claim like their supporters are like a bunch of Trump supporters.

    I 100% disagree with your characterization of trump supporters.

    So now Trump supporters are Sexist too???
     
    Deception. If enough people do it, which I am sure is what happened in 2016, then it lulls the competition into a false sense of security.

    You should read Sun Tzu.

    If Ds were lulled into a false sense of security over the 2016 polling, it wasn't because Trump supporters were deceiving pollsters, but because lots of people fundamentally misunderstand percentages and margin of error when it comes to polling. The polling errors in 2016 were about the same as they were in prior years, and Trump's victory was within the margin of error. But people ignoring the impact of the margin of error is a likely reason lots of Ds were too comfortable, lots of TV pundits were overconfident about Hillary, and lots of Rs still talk about how wrong the polls were about 2016. I couldn't speculate about how many people actually lie to pollsters, but the numbers suggest it didn't happen more in 2016 than in prior years:

     
    This is part of the problem, and I'll admit a mistake to say that on my part. Sometimes it's easy to get into the echo chamber cycle of something repeated and you realize once out of it, you probably should readjust your view.

    I should edit to say there are supporters in every group, Trump, Sanders, Clinton, Biden, whatever.. That are unhealthy and divisive. I know it may not be popular to admit, but acting like it's just a sect of Trump supporters that act a certain way is both unhelpful and incorrect. I think we all know it's human beings and there are good and bad apples in each bunch.


    I am glad that you clarified... But that is the Truth right there...

    edit- but does that not agree with Trump when he said: "There are good people on both sides"
     
    I am glad that you clarified... But that is the Truth right there...

    edit- but does that not agree with Trump when he said: "There are good people on both sides"

    Trump was talking about Charlottesville.

    In that context there were not good people on both sides.
     
    I think both the phenomena of Trump and Sanders (and Warren for that matter) spring from the same source: frustration with the system that saw us go to war based on lies and saw banks get, depending on how you count it, hundreds of billions of dollars or a few trillion dollars in bailouts. All while "average" people were getting laid off and seeing their house foreclosed only to come back and have to pay high rents to people who took out loans from banks and are making the banks money.
     
    You have surely noticed the similarities? How could you notOf course I should have said some Trump supporters as well, but that seemed awkward in the flow of the sentence.

    You haven’t seen people claim that Trump was sent by God to save America? You haven’t seen the social media posts that call him God Emperor?

    And yes, both extremes approach each other in lots of ways, but that’s not primarily what I meant. Sorry, Ward, lol

    It’s the cult of personality aspects, it’s the idea that their guy is the only guy who can do right, it’s the demonization of opposition. We’ve seen it before.

    I should emphasize again that there is a difference, though. Trump promotes this attitude and the divisiveness, while I think it probably makes Bernie a bit uncomfortable.

    Come on MT, people are not serious when they refer to our President as the God Emperor.

    I mean, I would like to see us enact a line of descent of how the power of the executive (which really should be called something more dignified than the presidency) passes to Don Jr., but the Orange one is not a God. Yet.
     
    I think both the phenomena of Trump and Sanders (and Warren for that matter) spring from the same source: frustration with the system that saw us go to war based on lies and saw banks get, depending on how you count it, hundreds of billions of dollars or a few trillion dollars in bailouts. All while "average" people were getting laid off and seeing their house foreclosed only to come back and have to pay high rents to people who took out loans from banks and are making the banks money.

    I think the financial frustration theory is probably true for Sanders and Warren, and partially Trump (there are other factors I'd add, but would rather address in a separate forum). To the extent it's true for Trump, that's why the tax bill gave me so much heartburn. It was packaged as some gift to middle America so hard working blue collar people like my father-in-law would believe he's going to bat for them, but in the end it wasn't ever for people who needed it:
    1580398648146.png


    It's amazing Trump is still able to hold himself out as some champion for the little guy when he's clearly not that. He is buffoonish in so many ways, but he certainly has a knack for marketing himself, and his actions reflect a deep understanding of how to persuade people to be on his side even if it's clearly against their own self-interest. Just ask all his friends that have gone to prison for him.
     
    ANd that's a shame because she actually has the best chance of all to beat Trump. She seems to have her head on her shoulders squarely..
    Ummm... well you blew that whole "we agree on something" streak with that. She has the least "head on her shoulders squarely" of all Democratic candidates by FAR (Edit: OK maybe not Williamson...)
    I am not seeing any real policy ideas from any of them with the exception of Bernie.
    You're obviously not looking very hard at all if you really believe this.
     
    Last edited:
    I think both the phenomena of Trump and Sanders (and Warren for that matter) spring from the same source: frustration with the system that saw us go to war based on lies and saw banks get, depending on how you count it, hundreds of billions of dollars or a few trillion dollars in bailouts. All while "average" people were getting laid off and seeing their house foreclosed only to come back and have to pay high rents to people who took out loans from banks and are making the banks money.
    Yes,which is also the message Mayor Pete and Andrew Yang have been discussing. They are just taking different approaches to it.
     
    The poll numbers between Sanders and Biden by age groups are pretty remarkable.



    There are currently around 75 million Americans between 18-34 and around 50 million Americans over 65. Maybe the young people will turn out in high enough numbers to finally matter this year and maybe not (they're certainly not going to turn out for Joe freaking Biden in a general election). But the times, they are a changing.
     

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