How Low Will the Democratic Party go Re: Bernie (1 Viewer)

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    Beach Friends

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    Last week Elizabeth Warren, who may have the worst political instincts of anyone in the race, tried to derail the Sanders' campaign by claiming he told her a woman could not be elected president. From what I can tell, this backfired on Warren as frequently happens with her stunts.

    Not only did it hurt her, it also exposed her co-conspritator CNN. It's not exactly breaking news, but the CNN propaganda machine is not fit to host a political debate.

    This week, Bernie took a clip from one of Joe Rogan's podcasts and used it to promote his campaign. It wasn't exactly an endorsement, but Joe said he will probably vote for Bernie and that he is impressed that Bernie has been consistent.

    Of course, when you live on the left you are always run the risk of offending your fellow progressives and sure enough some people started losing their minds claiming that Rogan is not only "right wing" but also transphobic.

    Many of Bernie's followers believe, with good reason, that the DNC was less than fair to Bernie last year. Despite the fact Bernie campaigned for the Hillary, a significant percentage of Bernie's supporters decided not to vote for Hillary. There are rumblings that his supporters will be even less likely to vote for a Democratic nominee not named Bernie.

    Hillary has been acting like Hillary, badmouthing the man who campaigned for her in 2016. There are rumors that Obama may speak out against Bernie.

    Sounds like troubled waters are ahead for the Democratic party as Bernie's campaign continues to pick up steam.
     
    A recent segment from The Hill discussing how the Democrat party will destroy itself if it robs Sanders:

    I thought the DNC was going to destroy itself in the past election after screwing Bernie over. The fix was in from the previous election when Obama and Hillary went head to head and a deal was made with Hillary to step aside for Barack and the DNC would guarantee her the next nomination. After 8 years of Barack, they thought no problem running Hillary through, but they underestimated just how much dislike for Hillary existed in the country. Every time Bernie surged, they sabotaged him or "stacked the deck" using Super-Delegates. The hacked DNC emails showed the breadth of their rigged system and forced changes to the DNC election process. Will those changes help, doubtful, but they are all we have to protect us from another rigged election on the Democrat side.

    With the Republicans all scared of Trump, nothing will protect us in the General Election.
     
    The problem is that Sanders wants more socialism than capitalism. You only need to listen to his campaign rallies to know that.

    Social Security is already a poorly designed program that is falling apart under the weight of it's own ill conception.
    People want the opportunity to invest their own money without it being conscripted by social security taxes, but the program is now dependent on those people paying into the plan because there is no money to pay out those who already paid money into it while they were working. It's classic robbing peter to pay paul.

    Sanders is wholly anit-capitalist. Hell he used to float the idea of a maximum wage. https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...-think-there-should-be-a-maximum-wage/416790/

    Most people live month to month, they aren't going to be investing their money for retirement. Most of them couldn't even if they wanted to.

    Social security was established for a reason, if Social security goes away, we will all be reminded of that reason.

    People making 50+ million a year want people making 100k a year or even 20 bucks an hour to feel like they are all in the same boat, when in reality, the people making 50+ million a year are on a yacht and everyone else is renting a boat from them.

    We need much more socialism. Income inequality is the biggest long term social issue our society faces.
     
    Most people live month to month, they aren't going to be investing their money for retirement. Most of them couldn't even if they wanted to.

    Social security was established for a reason, if Social security goes away, we will all be reminded of that reason.

    People making 50+ million a year want people making 100k a year or even 20 bucks an hour to feel like they are all in the same boat, when in reality, the people making 50+ million a year are on a yacht and everyone else is renting a boat from them.

    We need much more socialism. Income inequality is the biggest long term social issue our society faces.

    Social security is the government forcing you to take money out of your check and get almost no return on it.

    You just said yourself that people are living month to month, so the solution is to take money away from them right now and not give it back to them until they are 65 years old with laughable returns.

    Also, you are calling income inequality a social issue, which it's not. It's economic.

    It's not inequality, it's jealousy of somebody having more money or more stuff.

    Speaking of being part of a capitalist system, it's time to for me to go to work and be a productive member of society instead of arguing with people who want to be able to have a bunch of free stuff.
     
    The idea that it is just BeachFriends or just non-Democrats that are or will be raising this issue is absurd. It is clearly a potential problem and will be if and when Bernie starts winning a lot of primaries and caucuses.
    As in all campaigns, this type of backstabbing is, unfortunately prevalent
    The absurdity is the notion of OP addressing this as a topic he wants to engage in
    The added absurdity is the speck/plank problem

    eta:
    While the discussion is inartful - as most discussions through megaphones are - it does not mean it’s an absurd question
    Rogan has given insightful takes. He’s also given deeply troubling takes and has given a platform to some very grow people/ideas
    Both should be taken into account
    And the issue that is highlighted is not that cancel culture again fears it’s head/ it’s that the default power position is so entrenched that it takes agitprop exercises to even expose the entrenchment must less unearth it
     
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    Social security is the government forcing you to take money out of your check and get almost no return on it.

    You just said yourself that people are living month to month, so the solution is to take money away from them right now and not give it back to them until they are 65 years old with laughable returns.

    Also, you are calling income inequality a social issue, which it's not. It's economic.

    It's not inequality, it's jealousy of somebody having more money or more stuff.

    Speaking of being part of a capitalist system, it's time to for me to go to work and be a productive member of society instead of arguing with people who want to be able to have a bunch of free stuff.
    I know people change their minds and stuff and that's fine, but am I crazy or did you not express support for Bernie last cycle?
     
    As in all campaigns, this type of backstabbing is, unfortunately prevalent
    The absurdity is the notion of OP addressing this as a topic he wants to engage in
    The added absurdity is the speck/plank problem

    eta:
    While the discussion is inartful - as most discussions through megaphones are - it does not mean it’s an absurd question
    Rogan has given insightful takes. He’s also given deeply troubling takes and has given a platform to some very grow people/ideas
    Both should be taken into account
    And the issue that is highlighted is not that cancel culture again fears it’s head/ it’s that the default power position is so entrenched that it takes agitprop exercises to even expose the entrenchment must less unearth it

    The take that the deplatforming crowd found most "troubling" was his opinion that biological men have physical advantages over biological women in MMA matches. That intolerant crowd felt that because of this transgender people were living in fear as long as Bernie maintained his ad featuring Rogan saying he was was leaning toward voting for Bernie.
     
    I don't like the DNC nor the direction they seem to be taking over the last, what, 8-10 years or more? They're screwing up more things than they are helping, and they have a HUGE part in why Trump was elected in 2016. One more reason I'll never register as a Democrat... (not like the RNC is any better, refusing to even hold primaries to prevent anyone else conservative running against Trump).

    And while they deserve all the shirt thrown their way, I'm also concerned with the way those Bernie supporters seem to attack anyone at all who isn't actually Bernie -- and in many cases, the closer you are in policy positions to Bernie, the more frequent and vicious the vitriol from his supporters. I used to occasionally enjoy TYT shows from a progressive viewpoint, but lately they are to Sanders what FoxNews is to Trump -- any criticism against their favorite is calls for attacks and denials.
     
    Last week Elizabeth Warren, who may have the worst political instincts of anyone in the race, tried to derail the Sanders' campaign by claiming he told her a woman could not be elected president. From what I can tell, this backfired on Warren as frequently happens with her stunts.

    Not only did it hurt her, it also exposed her co-conspritator CNN. It's not exactly breaking news, but the CNN propaganda machine is not fit to host a political debate.

    This week, Bernie took a clip from one of Joe Rogan's podcasts and used it to promote his campaign. It wasn't exactly an endorsement, but Joe said he will probably vote for Bernie and that he is impressed that Bernie has been consistent.

    Of course, when you live on the left you are always run the risk of offending your fellow progressives and sure enough some people started losing their minds claiming that Rogan is not only "right wing" but also transphobic.

    Many of Bernie's followers believe, with good reason, that the DNC was less than fair to Bernie last year. Despite the fact Bernie campaigned for the Hillary, a significant percentage of Bernie's supporters decided not to vote for Hillary. There are rumblings that his supporters will be even less likely to vote for a Democratic nominee not named Bernie.

    Hillary has been acting like Hillary, badmouthing the man who campaigned for her in 2016. There are rumors that Obama may speak out against Bernie.

    Sounds like troubled waters are ahead for the Democratic party as Bernie's campaign continues to pick up steam.
    No where, in any of this, did the DNC or the Democratic party do anything.

    You're issue is with Warren's campaign and maybe CNN.

    The rest, is just the usual fringe hyperventilating that individuals do on various thing.
     
    No where, in any of this, did the DNC or the Democratic party do anything.

    You're issue is with Warren's campaign and maybe CNN.

    The rest, is just the usual fringe hyperventilating that individuals do on various thing.
    I double checked, and I think you may be correct. It appears that technically CNN and the DNC are separate entities.

    In any event, the question I presented was how low will the Democratic party go, not how low has it gone yet. If 2016 is any indication I think we can expect some shenanigans. This is also indicated by the Hillary's comments and the rumors that Obama will step forward with a statement if necessary.
    If you review the videos I provided in this thread I think you will see the DNC is loaded with Hillary and Obama allies which tends to show they still have a lot of influence.

    I think that the Democratic party's bias against non establishment candidates is evident in the way they have excluded Tulsi from debates.

    We can update this thread as the nomination process unfolds.
     
    I ).

    And while they deserve all the shirt thrown theirway, I'm also concerned with the way those Bernie supporters seem to attack anyone at all who isn't actually Bernie -- and in many cases, the closer you are in policy positions to Bernie, the more frequent and vicious the vitriol from his supporters. I used to occasionally enjoy TYT shows from a progressive viewpoint, but lately they are to Sanders what FoxNews is to Trump -- any criticism against their favorite is calls for attacks and denials.

    I mean.. What are Sanders supporters supposed to respond with here.. 'I'm sorry you don't like the passion of our supporters or some of us aren't nice? ". Point repeated ad nauseam here, but anyone could pick out a supporter of any candidate and generalize. I'm not sure of what the prerogative is.

    At this point, the fact that the establishment is doing what it can to keep a certain candidate from clinching the nomination is common knowledge to most Americans. It doesn't take blinders. But i do kind of get sick of the incessant complaining from the establishment media and pundits unfairly labeling all Sanders supporters as 'bernie bros', 'young /dumb', or 'radicals'. Humorous coming from those who virtue signal being above all else for equality and fairness. The woe is me narrative does in fact stale.

    If someone is tired of a progressive /Sanders agenda, tired of his supporters, tired of hearing them speak, whatever... the time to galvanize the American people against it for something they'd want more was yesterday. I'm not sure who's fault it is that nobody has anything close to the same movement.
     
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    Here is my 2 cents, and I admit that I do not follow the Democratic candidates as much as many of you - but I keep hearing media reports that suggest Bernie has a race problem: as in all his support comes from white people, mainly younger - somewhat educated and affluent whites. But the polls seem to suggest something different. While he may not be polling as well as Biden with blacks, he is arguably second there. And he looks to be the candidate with the most widespread Hispanic support.
     
    I just adore the sjw revolutionaries clashing with actual true believers walking the path. the fact warren made that claim about Bernie is pretty amazing and the "believe all women" shill gave validity to a crazy unverifiable farce is quite pleasing.

    I hope the progressive identity politics driven left is consumed by the intellectual left. one can dream.
     
    Here is my 2 cents, and I admit that I do not follow the Democratic candidates as much as many of you - but I keep hearing media reports that suggest Bernie has a race problem: as in all his support comes from white people, mainly younger - somewhat educated and affluent whites. But the polls seem to suggest something different. While he may not be polling as well as Biden with blacks, he is arguably second there. And he looks to be the candidate with the most widespread Hispanic support.
    I haven't heard that at all.

    The only candidate I heard that had a 'race problem' was Mayor Pete.

    And I think interestingly enough, people who support Pete, then jumped to Warren.. not Biden or Sanders.
     
    I double checked, and I think you may be correct. It appears that technically CNN and the DNC are separate entities.

    In any event, the question I presented was how low will the Democratic party go, not how low has it gone yet. If 2016 is any indication I think we can expect some shenanigans. This is also indicated by the Hillary's comments and the rumors that Obama will step forward with a statement if necessary.
    If you review the videos I provided in this thread I think you will see the DNC is loaded with Hillary and Obama allies which tends to show they still have a lot of influence.

    I think that the Democratic party's bias against non establishment candidates is evident in the way they have excluded Tulsi from debates.

    We can update this thread as the nomination process unfolds.
    The question is essentially predicated on the idea that they are currently going low. So, the whole premise is flawed.

    Tulsi has been excluded because she's just not popular with Democrat voters.
     
    Here is my 2 cents, and I admit that I do not follow the Democratic candidates as much as many of you - but I keep hearing media reports that suggest Bernie has a race problem: as in all his support comes from white people, mainly younger - somewhat educated and affluent whites. But the polls seem to suggest something different. While he may not be polling as well as Biden with blacks, he is arguably second there. And he looks to be the candidate with the most widespread Hispanic support.

    In 2016, Sanders got curbstomped in the South. It's what torpedoed his (slim) chances.
    This time, however, he's not running against a Clinton and his "Un-rig the system" message seems to be landing well.
     
    I think that the Democratic party's bias against non establishment candidates is evident in the way they have excluded Tulsi from debates.
    Nah, it's because Tulsi is kinda crazy and has spent more time bashing the left and the D candidates than she has actually putting together policy ideas and campaigning to win over Democrats or liberals.
     
    I mean.. What are Sanders supporters supposed to respond with here.. 'I'm sorry you don't like the passion of our supporters or some of us aren't nice? ". Point repeated ad nauseam here, but anyone could pick out a supporter of any candidate and generalize. I'm not sure of what the prerogative is.
    I'm not picking out *a* supporter -- it's a very large amount. I like Bernie a lot -- he's my second choice -- but his online supporters are overbearing IMO. I can't say that about any other candidate in the race, even candidates I don't like at all. (Edit: to be clear -- Democratic candidates)
    If someone is tired of a progressive /Sanders agenda, tired of his supporters, tired of hearing them speak, whatever... the time to galvanize the American people against it for something they'd want more was yesterday. I'm not sure who's fault it is that nobody has anything close to the same movement.
    I'm fully in favor of almost all of his agenda. I'd be very happy with him as President.
     
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    I mean.. What are Sanders supporters supposed to respond with here.. 'I'm sorry you don't like the passion of our supporters or some of us aren't nice? ". Point repeated ad nauseam here, but anyone could pick out a supporter of any candidate and generalize. I'm not sure of what the prerogative is.

    At this point, denying that the establishment is doing what it can to keep a certain candidate from clinching the nomination is common knowledge to most Americans. It doesn't take blinders. But i do kind of get sick of the incessant complaining from the establishment media and pundits unfairly labeling all Sanders supporters as 'bernie bros' or 'radicals'. The woe is me narrative does in fact stale.

    I think you are ignoring the extent of the issue, especially on social media. Some of Sanders’ followers have a lot in common with Trump supporters, and dismissing the observation doesn’t make it untrue. Women have been targeted especially hard on social media by Sanders supporters. I’m not suggesting he condones that behavior or anything, quite the opposite. But you cannot just pretend it isn’t there or it’s not happening.

    I‘m barely on Twitter, and I‘ve seen it. Nobody says it’s all the Bernie supporters. But they definitely make themselves apparent and heard. If you’re not as passionate as they are, you’re the enemy. It’s not comforting if you hope that we can get through the divisiveness of the Trump era.
     

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