Harris VP watch (3 Viewers)

[Incumbent]

This topic is spread out across threads. Think it would be helpful to have some focused discussion while we await a decision.

I’m warming up to Shapiro and I like his message in this clip. It’s a fundamental contrast to what Trump offers.

 

[B4YOU]

Tim Walz served his country honorably for 24 years. JD Vance, Trump need to respect that. He earned it

I agree that he served his country honorably for 24 years and he deserves respect and admiration for that. That 24 years of service has nothing to do with the controversy surrounding him.


First Lie: Gov. Walz quickly exited the military after learning he was going to deploy, thereby leaving his men out to dry.

Truth: Gov. Walz put in his paperwork for retirement before his unit received alert orders for deployment. In fact, he served for four years AFTER 9/11 and two years after the Iraq War began. He did not leave at the first sign of combat. He stayed well past when he could have retired at 20 years.

I don't remember anyone saying he left quickly. That's simply a strawman from Kinzinger to knock down.

Tim Walz's former Command Sergeant Major Doug Julin definitively lays out the case of Walz abandoning his unit with knowledge of deployment in Nov of 2004, 6-7 months before he put in his retirement request. Along the way Walz assured Julin that he was going forward with the battalion/deployment. Then Walz went 2 levels above Julin (his chain of command) to put in retirement as his unit was getting ready to deploy.



Lie: Gov. Walz never made Command Sergeant Major.

Truth: He served as a CSM, and after retiring, was only reduced because he had not completed his professional military education and hadn’t served in that rank long enough to retire in it. To retire at a rank, you must have held it for several years. I retired as a Lt Colonel; had I retired before being an LTC for several years, I would have reverted to the previous rank of Major. There is no dishonor in this; it happens all the time. I would still hold the title of LTC.

Strawman #2 by Kinzinger. Nobody has claimed that he was never a Command Sergeant Major.

Walz has said multiple times that he was a retired Command Sergeant Major and that's not true. He was a Command Sergeant Major, but he retired as a Master Sergeant because he didn't fulfill all the requirements to be a Command Sergeant Major.

The Harris Campaign website previously listed him as a retired Command Sergeant Major, but they had to change it once this came out.

Harris' campaign has referred to Walz as a “retired Command Sergeant Major,” one of the top ranks for an enlisted soldier. He did in fact achieve that rank, but personnel files show he was reduced in rank months after retiring. That left him as a master sergeant for benefits purposes.

Minnesota National Guard officials have said that Walz retired before completing coursework at the U.S. Army Sergeants Major Academy, along with other requirements associated with his promotion.

Here's a look at questions about Tim Walz's military record

Republicans are questioning Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz’s characterization of his time in uniform and his departure from military service

abcnews.go.com

Kinzinger didn't debunk anything. He didn't even address the specific issues because he can't defend it.

It makes sense that they would get Kinzinger to try to handle this considering all the propaganda the January 6th committee produced.

From your article: "There is no evidence that Walz timed his departure with the intent of avoiding deployment."

People here have explained the retirement and rank reduction to you. You just refuse facts.

 

[not2rich]

This ain't going away no matter now much the Democrats pray it does.

He definitely got carried away but, he was talking about AR-15’s and making a point about them being weapons of war. This is a nothing burger.

 

[Incumbent]

meh. He's a weekend warrior, if he was Regular Army then maybe I would care more about any of this. meh.

With the myriad of legal problems and controversies surrounding Trump, and the backlash to how weird and inflammatory Vance is, I’m not sure there’s ever going to be a huge interest among the electorate about whether Walz is an E9 or actually an E8.

 

[MT15]

Tim Walz served his country honorably for 24 years. JD Vance, Trump need to respect that. He earned it

I agree that he served his country honorably for 24 years and he deserves respect and admiration for that. That 24 years of service has nothing to do with the controversy surrounding him.


First Lie: Gov. Walz quickly exited the military after learning he was going to deploy, thereby leaving his men out to dry.

Truth: Gov. Walz put in his paperwork for retirement before his unit received alert orders for deployment. In fact, he served for four years AFTER 9/11 and two years after the Iraq War began. He did not leave at the first sign of combat. He stayed well past when he could have retired at 20 years.

I don't remember anyone saying he left quickly. That's simply a strawman from Kinzinger to knock down.

Tim Walz's former Command Sergeant Major Doug Julin definitively lays out the case of Walz abandoning his unit with knowledge of deployment in Nov of 2004, 6-7 months before he put in his retirement request. Along the way Walz assured Julin that he was going forward with the battalion/deployment. Then Walz went 2 levels above Julin (his chain of command) to put in retirement as his unit was getting ready to deploy.



Lie: Gov. Walz never made Command Sergeant Major.

Truth: He served as a CSM, and after retiring, was only reduced because he had not completed his professional military education and hadn’t served in that rank long enough to retire in it. To retire at a rank, you must have held it for several years. I retired as a Lt Colonel; had I retired before being an LTC for several years, I would have reverted to the previous rank of Major. There is no dishonor in this; it happens all the time. I would still hold the title of LTC.

Strawman #2 by Kinzinger. Nobody has claimed that he was never a Command Sergeant Major.

Walz has said multiple times that he was a retired Command Sergeant Major and that's not true. He was a Command Sergeant Major, but he retired as a Master Sergeant because he didn't fulfill all the requirements to be a Command Sergeant Major.

The Harris Campaign website previously listed him as a retired Command Sergeant Major, but they had to change it once this came out.

Harris' campaign has referred to Walz as a “retired Command Sergeant Major,” one of the top ranks for an enlisted soldier. He did in fact achieve that rank, but personnel files show he was reduced in rank months after retiring. That left him as a master sergeant for benefits purposes.

Minnesota National Guard officials have said that Walz retired before completing coursework at the U.S. Army Sergeants Major Academy, along with other requirements associated with his promotion.

Here's a look at questions about Tim Walz's military record

Republicans are questioning Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz’s characterization of his time in uniform and his departure from military service

abcnews.go.com

Kinzinger didn't debunk anything. He didn't even address the specific issues because he can't defend it.

It makes sense that they would get Kinzinger to try to handle this considering all the propaganda the January 6th committee produced.

Do you know how petty and desperate you look trying to make this a big deal? This is exactly what the same guy that is running Trump’s campaign now did to John Kerry back in the day. He got veterans to lie and criticize Kerry, and he was rebuked by the FEC for it, although after the fact because the FEC sucks. He is a true Peice of work for doing this both times and I haven’t ruled out that some of these veterans are MAGA and are lying about Walz like he got veterans to lie about Kerry. It’s actually more likely than not. I repeat the campaign manager doing this is a real piece of shirt.

You do realize at least 2 of those veterans you are touting were PAID to say bad things about Walz? And neither ever served with him?

The fact is Walz had the right to retire due to his length of service. He retired in May, 2005, but he had to put in the paperwork 6-12 months prior to that. At that time there may have been rumors of an upcoming deployment, but there were no orders nor even a concrete timeline. He had decided to run for Congress, and he opposed the war. He thought he could stay in while running, but he decided that he wanted to speak freely about his opposition to the war, something he couldn’t do unless he retired. His unit was advised about a deployment date in July, 2005 and didn’t actually go until later in the fall of 2005.

If the National Guard thought his retirement jeopardized the mission of the unit, they would have put a “stop-loss” on it. But it didn’t jeopardize anything and they approved his retirement.

The rest of this shirt is just nit-picking over semantics. His rank wasn’t changed until after his retirement took effect, so I can’t imagine the “horror” of him saying he retired as a CSM. He did hold that rank when he retired, and once he retired they changed his rank back for 2 reasons - hadn’t held the rank long enough, IIRC, and hadn’t gone through the course work.

IIRC he said he carried a weapon in times of war, and he did, just not in combat. Once again, these are all incredibly nit-picky criticisms.

Quit smearing a man who served his country honorably while you support a draft-dodger who called soldiers who were killed “suckers and losers” and said it to a man who lost a son in combat.

 

[not2rich]

Let it run through the cycle. I don’t think most people will care the way you and the Xitter trolls are hoping. It’s not as if a draft dodger at the top of the republican ticket, who has repeatedly disparaged military service, gives that side any high ground.

The truly pathetic aspect of his bleating about Walz supposedly being dishonest is that he can’t and won’t apply the same standards to Trump. In fact, he doesn’t even apply the same standard he applies to Walz to himself.

 

[Incumbent]

Do you know how petty and desperate you look trying to make this a big deal? This is exactly what the same guy that is running Trump’s campaign now did to John Kerry back in the day. He got veterans to lie and criticize Kerry, and he was rebuked by the FEC for it, although after the fact because the FEC sucks. He is a true Peice of work for doing this both times and I haven’t ruled out that some of these veterans are MAGA and are lying about Walz like he got veterans to lie about Kerry. It’s actually more likely than not. I repeat the campaign manager doing this is a real piece of shirt.

You do realize at least 2 of those veterans you are touting were PAID to say bad things about Walz? And neither ever served with him?

The fact is Walz had the right to retire due to his length of service. He retired in May, 2005, but he had to put in the paperwork 6-12 months prior to that. At that time there may have been rumors of an upcoming deployment, but there were no orders nor even a concrete timeline. He had decided to run for Congress, and he opposed the war. He thought he could stay in while running, but he decided that he wanted to speak freely about his opposition to the war, something he couldn’t do unless he retired. His unit was advised about a deployment date in July, 2005 and didn’t actually go until later in the fall of 2005.

If the National Guard thought his retirement jeopardized the mission of the unit, they would have put a “stop-loss” on it. But it didn’t jeopardize anything and they approved his retirement.

The rest of this shirt is just nit-picking over semantics. His rank wasn’t changed until after his retirement took effect, so I can’t imagine the “horror” of him saying he retired as a CSM. He did hold that rank when he retired, and once he retired they changed his rank back for 2 reasons - hadn’t held the rank long enough, IIRC, and hadn’t gone through the course work.

IIRC he said he carried a weapon in times of war, and he did, just not in combat. Once again, these are all incredibly nit-picky criticisms.

Quit smearing a man who served his country honorably while you support a draft-dodger who called soldiers who were killed “suckers and losers” and said it to a man who lost a son in combat.

The attacks are coming from people who possess absolutely no curiosity about Trump’s close associations to a known child trafficker, among a long list of other convictions, allegations, and public failings. We give them way too much credit by allowing them to dictate the conversations. That part is on us.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

Nothing. The Democrats, the media and you guys said he was fine. Biden was only forced out by the threat of the 25th ammendment from Obama and Harris.

that's what y'all want to believe... but whatever helps you sleep...
he dropped put because his support was dropping, plain and simple..

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

From your article: "There is no evidence that Walz timed his departure with the intent of avoiding deployment."

People here have explained the retirement and rank reduction to you. You just refuse facts.

he rarely reads what the articles he posts.. countless times this has happened, then he'll ignore it

 

[not2rich]

he rarely reads what the articles he posts.. countless times this has happened, then he'll ignore it

Why read when his only purpose is to spam? I don’t think the dude has an original thought in his head.

 

[efil4]

Let it run through the cycle. I don’t think most people will care the way you and the Xitter trolls are hoping. It’s not as if a draft dodger at the top of the republican ticket, who has repeatedly disparaged military service, gives that side any high ground.

Go read @nolaspe Post. It's long but worth it.

He's a psychopath. Clinical psychopath.

 

[not2rich]

Go read @nolaspe Post. It's long but worth it.

He's a psychopath. Clinical psychopath.

SFL should read it, but he’s too busy trying to attack a non-psychopath in order to protect the psychopath. But in fairness to him, he probably doesn’t have the attention span to get through the entire thing.

 

[MT15]

It was a harrowing read.

 

[LA - L.A.]

This is a stupid statement. There’s nothing here that isn’t almost 20 years old. He’s been elected a whole lot of times since then. I know your talking points want this to be a big deal - it’s just not.

Your hypocrisy is just screamingly loud. Your candidate lied to dodge the draft repeatedly, yet you don’t think that is disqualifying AT ALL. And you want to parse words, and pick apart timelines, and just in general be a complete arse about a guy who served 24 YEARS. And you never served a day.

Get the fork out of here with this bull shirt.

George W Bush didn't dodge a draft by lying about having bone spurs.
George W Bush didn't complain about having to go to a memorial ceremony for veterans in the rain.
George W Bush didn't say that he thinks POW's are losers and not heroes.
George W Bush didn't say he didn't want any disabled veterans in a parade, because it looked bad.
George W Bush didn't say that soldiers who died in wars were suckers.

The swift boat attacks on Kerry wouldn't have worked if George W Bush had done any of those things.

Trump has done all of those things, that's why the lying attacks on Walz are going to backfire tremendously on Trump.

 

[LA - L.A.]

The attacks are coming from people who possess absolutely no curiosity about Trump’s close associations to a known child trafficker, among a long list of other convictions, allegations, and public failings. We give them way too much credit by allowing them to dictate the conversations. That part is on us.

I think the part in bold is what Trump and his minions are desperately trying to keep everyone from paying any attention to. I think the multiple bombshells from that issue will start dropping on Trump's campaign in early October and through to election day. That's when it will have the most impact on voting and will be too late for anyone to forget about.

 

[Optimus Prime]

……..Two weeks later, while campaigning for governor, Walz authored an op-ed in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, where he called the NRA “the biggest single obstacle to passing the most basic measures to prevent gun violence in America”.

He went on to say that he’d donated the $18,000 the organization had donated to his past campaigns and wouldn’t accept NRA contributions in the future. He noted that he was currently co-sponsoring a “bump stocks” ban and came out in support of an assault weapons ban.

As Minnesota governor, Walz has signed wide-ranging gun safety measures into law, most notably a 2023 law including universal background checks and a “red flag law” (which allows state officials to temporarily seize the firearms of someone a court has ruled may be dangerous to themselves or others).

This year, Walz called for Minnesota lawmakers to go even further, asking them to support measuresthat would require safe firearm storage, better reporting of lost and stolen guns, and harsher penalties for “straw buyers” (those who purchase firearms for others who cannot legally have them). Since then, he’s signed legislation that prohibits automatic weapon modification devices and collects data on gun crime…….

How Tim Walz went from NRA favorite to ‘straight Fs’ on gun rights

In Congress, Walz was endorsed by gun rights advocates. But after the Parkland shooting, he changed his tone

www.theguardian.com

 

[SaintForLife]

From your article: "There is no evidence that Walz timed his departure with the intent of avoiding deployment."

People here have explained the retirement and rank reduction to you. You just refuse facts.

Why did you ignore the video in the same post that you replied to that showed Walz's boss stating that Walz knew about the deployment 6 to 7 months before he submitted his retirement papers?



The article by Kinzinger didn't debunk shirt.

Vance: "I've never criticized what Tim Walz did when he was in the military. I criticized his retirement decision and his lying about his own record.”

 

[SaintForLife]

Let it run through the cycle. I don’t think most people will care the way you and the Xitter trolls are hoping. It’s not as if a draft dodger at the top of the republican ticket, who has repeatedly disparaged military service, gives that side any high ground.

We'll see. The veterans and current military that I've talked to didn't take to kindly about Walz misrepresenting his service.

Trump never claimed he went to Vietnam like Walz's misleading statements and his lies.

It's just hilarious to me that the left has been smearing Trump as a Russian agent, a traitor, a threat to democracy, Hitler etc is now complaining about people highlighting Walz's own statements. Give me a break.

 

[MT15]

Trump never claimed he went to Vietnam

So it’s your contention that draft dodging is okay? You’re so lost, dude. You will parse words and be extremely nit-picky about a guy who served for 24 years and went overseas twice, yet defend a guy who got 5 phony deferments to dodge the draft.

Everybody sees your phony outrage. And the only veterans who are in the least upset about this are MAGA anyway. And huge phonies themselves.