General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (4 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[TampaJoe]

Do you believe life begins at conception?

Personally I don’t think a fetus can be considered a human being at conception. I also don’t believe that it becomes a human being at birth. I was okay with Roe.

However, my point is that a great many well meaning US Citizens do in fact believe life begins at conception and many believe it begins when there is a heartbeat.

My point is that the rhetoric used to justify abortion is the same rhetoric used to justify the holocaust and slavery. When you dehumanize something, you can kill it.

Are people who are prochoice like Nazis? Is that a fair comparison. I don’t think so for reasons I have stated. That said I also don’t believe comparing folks who supported Trump to Nazis for those exact same reasons.

This rhetoric on both sides goes way too far. It needs to be ratcheted down. It’s dysfunctional and not productive.

 

[Sendai]

Well, I was not meaning you personally, more the MAGA world who are running around all puffed up and self-important. I saw some random Twitter user respond to an analyst - I think it was Tom Nichols - with a “shut up, we’re in charge now”. And Twitter is awash in MAGA folks acting much, much worse than that.

“In parliamentary procedure, a majority always means precisely "more than half".”

Trump didn’t win more than half the votes. He’s the thinnest victory in years and years.

Don’t recall

Well, I was not meaning you personally, more the MAGA world who are running around all puffed up and self-important. I saw some random Twitter user respond to an analyst - I think it was Tom Nichols - with a “shut up, we’re in charge now”. And Twitter is awash in MAGA folks acting much, much worse than that.

“In parliamentary procedure, a majority always means precisely "more than half".”

Trump didn’t win more than half the votes. He’s the thinnest victory in years and years.

a public election isn’t a parliamentary procedure.

 

[Sendai]

The last thing I’ve seen close to what you could call a mandate was Obama’s victory in his first term.

Given what he inherited, he needed it.

 

[J-DONK]

Personally I don’t think a fetus can be considered a human being at conception. I also don’t believe that it becomes a human being at birth. I was okay with Roe.

However, my point is that a great many well meaning US Citizens do in fact believe life begins at conception and many believe it begins when there is a heartbeat.

My point is that the rhetoric used to justify abortion is the same rhetoric used to justify the holocaust and slavery. When you dehumanize something, you can kill it.

Are people who are prochoice like Nazis? Is that a fair comparison. I don’t think so for reasons I have stated. That said I also don’t believe comparing folks who supported Trump to Nazis for those exact same reasons.

This rhetoric on both sides goes way too far. It needs to be ratcheted down. It’s dysfunctional and not productive.

This is a really bad argument.

The major debate points that are always get brought up.

Are DNR orders, and decisions to unplug braindead patients dehumanizing?

Most people understand the body alone does not make a person.

By the same rationale, every miscarriage should have some kind of accidential manslaughter charge.

You aren't dehumanizing something that's not an actual person. We hold that same logic consistently across a range of situations. It for some reason only becomes a sticky subject when the situation also involves women having sex.

I get it. We call authoritarians like Trump and his supporters, Nazi's. You don't like that.

 

[bird]

Personally I don’t think a fetus can be considered a human being at conception. I also don’t believe that it becomes a human being at birth. I was okay with Roe.

However, my point is that a great many well meaning US Citizens do in fact believe life begins at conception and many believe it begins when there is a heartbeat.

My point is that the rhetoric used to justify abortion is the same rhetoric used to justify the holocaust and slavery. When you dehumanize something, you can kill it.

Are people who are prochoice like Nazis? Is that a fair comparison. I don’t think so for reasons I have stated. That said I also don’t believe comparing folks who supported Trump to Nazis for those exact same reasons.

This rhetoric on both sides goes way too far. It needs to be ratcheted down. It’s dysfunctional and not productive.

They most certainly can believe it. There are problems which arise when they make claims about God when scripture is loaded with examples of God not being pro-life including termination of a pregnancy being a commercial or what we might call civil matter.

As for dehumanization? The claims of pro-life ring hollow when policies designed to help children and parents are deemed unacceptable. If those who claim to be pro-life were intellectually honest they would call themselves anti-abortion if they refuse programs that help.

Of course, God aborts thousands of babies every year through miscarriage and failure to implant.

Now, as regarding Nazism? The language of defining the blood of the nation is an agitprop term used by hyper-nationalist, generally, populist politicians seeking authoritarian power. That describes Nazism. Beyond that Trump hasn’t put forward a Final Solution but he has demonized people of various nationalities and ethnicities. Will he step closer? I don’t know and neither does anyone else. Do we want to take that risk? I don’t think so. And please don’t look for the Republican congress to impose restrictions on him. They either will cheer him on or are afraid for their political, if not real, lives.

The dehumanization rhetoric flies from both sides of the abortion issue.

 

[cuddlemonkey]

Call it what you want.

As I have said numerous times, comparing today’s US politics to Nazism in the 30’s and 40’s is, in my view, the ultimate false equivalency. It matters not which leg you stand on or if you’re standing at all.

Stop shifting the goalposts. Nobody is comparing US politics to Nazism. What people are saying- and showing proof to back it up- is that Trump's rhetoric is eerily similar to that of Hitler. If I show you actual examples of this, will you believe it?

 

[Optimus Prime]

Since Donald Trump won the 2024 US presidential election, many have publicly speculated why people of color – with whom Trump made some gains – would vote for a racist candidate.

Throughout his campaign, Trump and his supporters spouted a series of racist remarks aimed at Black and Latino people, immigrants at large and other marginalized groups.

He also promised to utilize the military to carry out mass deportations, ban sanctuary cities, and escalate attacks on diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) efforts at the federal level.

Swaths of non-white voters still supported Trump at the ballot box. And though this sort of data can vary in reliability, experts agree that Trump made inroads among some minorities despite his bigoted comments.

A record 46% of Latinos voted for Trump, a 14-point increase from 2020, according to Edison Research exit polls.

Asian American support for Trump increased by five points, rising to 39% this year from 34% in 2020.

Black voter support for Trump sat at 13% in 2024, relatively unchangedfrom 12% in 2020. And though it’s true that the majority of people of color voted for Harris across the board, experts have warned that assuming these groups would automatically reject a racist candidate such as Trump ignores important nuance, particularly with regard to concerns about the economy.

Shifts away from Democrats, particularly among Latino voters, suggest that they may be pliant about Trump’s anti-immigration and xenophobic messaging, according to the journalist Paola Ramos.

Being Latino doesn’t make voters immune from “racism or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-Blackness”, she said, as many have been taught to “idolize and romanticize whiteness”.

“That racial baggage is one that we’ve carried in this country and through American politics for a long time,” said Ramos, referencing the glorification of white identity in Latin America. “And I think [that] has now been finally revealed in very clear ways through Trumpism.”

Many Latino voters may have a more distant relationship with immigration, and hold xenophobic beliefs themselves, said the producer and author Dash Harris.

“We cannot act as if the Dominican Republic isn’t deporting thousands of Haitians right now,” she said, referencing the ongoing removal of Haitian immigrants from the country by Dominican officials, a practice that has received international outcry.

“If Latin Americans are migrating from fascist countries, they are going to support fascism in their new space. It’s a continuum of interest convergence.”

The rise in far-right leaders in Latin America and the continuation of “Nazism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, misogynoir” is unbroken “in the western hemisphere”, she said.

Trump’s xenophobia was also intertwined with an economic message that resonated for some, Ramos said.

“In every single message: ‘[Immigrants] are taking your jobs. They are coming after you.’ … Inevitably, particularly if you’re part of certain ecosystems, you’ll start believing that rhetoric.”……

Why Trump’s racism isn’t an issue – or enough of one – for some voters of color

Experts warn assuming minority groups will reject a racist candidate ignores nuance, particularly on the economy

www.theguardian.com

 

[superchuck500]

Here’s Trump’s own cabinet secretary nominee on the question of whether it’s valid to compare Trump to Hitler.

Andrew Kaczynski (@kfile.bsky.social)

NEW on RFK Jr: In audio we uncovered from his radio show he read and praised a description of Trump and his supporters as "belligerent idiots," "outright Nazis," and "cowards" and "bootlickers." He also compared Trump to Adolf Hitler...

bsky.app

 

[MT15]

Here’s Trump’s own cabinet secretary nominee on the question of whether it’s valid to compare Trump to Hitler.

Andrew Kaczynski (@kfile.bsky.social)

NEW on RFK Jr: In audio we uncovered from his radio show he read and praised a description of Trump and his supporters as "belligerent idiots," "outright Nazis," and "cowards" and "bootlickers." He also compared Trump to Adolf Hitler...

bsky.app

So both Vance and now RFK, Jr have compared Trump to Hitler? Says something about their lack of morals, doesn’t it?

 

[Optimus Prime]

...........But suddenly, over the last month, that’s shifted. You can see it at the very far right of the graph above, that downward shift in “worse off financially” and the upward shift in “about the same.”

Among Democrats, views of how they fare now relative to a year ago haven’t changed much in the past month. Among Republicans, though, there’s been a 16-point drop in the percentage saying that they were doing worse a year ago.

Is that because something happened in early November 2023 that changed the economic status of Republicans?

Ha ha, no. It is unquestionably because, in early November 2024, Donald Trump won the election.

We saw a similar shift in 2016. When Trump won that year, the views of Republicans again improved quickly: in late November 2016 they were 13 points less likely to say their economic position had grown worse over the prior year than they had been in late October.

It has consistently been the case that Republicans have more extreme views of the change in the state of their own finances than Democrats or Americans overall. Under Trump, Republicans were on average 28 points more likely to say their position had gotten better than worse; Democrats were 16 points more likely to say it had gotten worse. Under Biden, Democrats were only 1 point more likely to say things had gotten better (across his entire term); Republicans were 41 points more likely to say they’d gotten worse.

But that was then, back before concerns about the economy boosted Trump’s bid for a second term in office. The pattern with Trump and his supporters has long been that reality is viewed through a Trump-friendly lens; the same facts that applied under Barack Obama were considered very differently when Trump was inaugurated.

The good economic data that has been reported consistently for the past year under Biden will soon no doubt be cited as evidence of Trump’s excellent stewardship.

By the time he’s inaugurated, in fact, Republicans may already have decided that things are pretty good after all. At the end of October 2016, 42 percent of Republicans said their economic position had worsened over the prior year compared to 9 percent who said it had gotten better.

By the end of January 2017, with Trump in office for just under two weeks, only 25 percent said their situation had worsened while 17 percent said it had improved.

All it took was voting.............

Lots of Republicans suddenly think the economy wasn’t that bad after all​

MSN

 

[J-DONK]

...........But suddenly, over the last month, that’s shifted. You can see it at the very far right of the graph above, that downward shift in “worse off financially” and the upward shift in “about the same.”

Among Democrats, views of how they fare now relative to a year ago haven’t changed much in the past month. Among Republicans, though, there’s been a 16-point drop in the percentage saying that they were doing worse a year ago.

Is that because something happened in early November 2023 that changed the economic status of Republicans?

Ha ha, no. It is unquestionably because, in early November 2024, Donald Trump won the election.

We saw a similar shift in 2016. When Trump won that year, the views of Republicans again improved quickly: in late November 2016 they were 13 points less likely to say their economic position had grown worse over the prior year than they had been in late October.

It has consistently been the case that Republicans have more extreme views of the change in the state of their own finances than Democrats or Americans overall. Under Trump, Republicans were on average 28 points more likely to say their position had gotten better than worse; Democrats were 16 points more likely to say it had gotten worse. Under Biden, Democrats were only 1 point more likely to say things had gotten better (across his entire term); Republicans were 41 points more likely to say they’d gotten worse.

But that was then, back before concerns about the economy boosted Trump’s bid for a second term in office. The pattern with Trump and his supporters has long been that reality is viewed through a Trump-friendly lens; the same facts that applied under Barack Obama were considered very differently when Trump was inaugurated.

The good economic data that has been reported consistently for the past year under Biden will soon no doubt be cited as evidence of Trump’s excellent stewardship.

By the time he’s inaugurated, in fact, Republicans may already have decided that things are pretty good after all. At the end of October 2016, 42 percent of Republicans said their economic position had worsened over the prior year compared to 9 percent who said it had gotten better.

By the end of January 2017, with Trump in office for just under two weeks, only 25 percent said their situation had worsened while 17 percent said it had improved.

All it took was voting.............

Lots of Republicans suddenly think the economy wasn’t that bad after all​

MSN

It's honestly almost not worth talking to a conserative about the economy in general. It's all feels to them.

Edit to add: The source on the graph is J.P. Morgan.

 

[Optimus Prime]

It's honestly almost not worth talking to a conserative about the economy in general. It's all feels to them.

Edit to add: The source on the graph is J.P. Morgan.

And this is how I question exactly how Kamala was supposed to combat this

No matter what she said, no matter how detailed her policies were, no matter how many economists said her plans would work and be better than Trump’s , no matter how many said that the economy is doing pretty well right now and much better than the rest of the world they would have said "The economy is terrible, I'm worse off, things will be better under Trump"

Because that's what it feels like because that's what they are told to feel

Yes, prices are higher. But does anyone think for one second if they weren't the GOP would concede that the economy's doing great?

 

[t_rav_82]

It's honestly almost not worth talking to a conserative about the economy in general. It's all feels to them.

Edit to add: The source on the graph is J.P. Morgan.

I feel like that’s true for most conversations with most R’s. The conversation is mostly pointless because it’s opinion this opinion that. Just look how many times tampa joe calls facts opinions. It’s all feelings to a lot of them and data doesn’t matter.

 

[J-DONK]

And this is how I question exactly how Kamala was supposed to combat this

No matter what she said, no matter how detailed her policies were, no matter how many economists said her plans would work and be better than Trump’s , no matter how many said that the economy is doing pretty well right now and much better than the rest of the world they would have said "The economy is terrible, I'm worse off, things will be better under Trump"

Because that's what it feels like because that's what they are told to feel

Yes, prices are higher. But does anyone think for one second if they weren't the GOP would concede that the economy's doing great?

Yeah Republicans will for sure be back into the 80's on the feel good chart by summer 2025.

I think a non-incumbent probably had to run, and/or pass the minimum wage increase as well.

 

[MT15]

Yeah, hard to take anything they say seriously at this point.

 

[MT15]

She is ridiculous. Probably getting paid by Russia, we see that she parrots Russian propaganda.