General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (1 Viewer)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[TampaJoe]

This is a real stretch here. The embryo or fetus is a potential human life and nobody says otherwise. Nobody is “demonizing” fetuses or saying they are evil, or satanic. Nobody is saying they are “a poisoning the blood” of our nation.

The rhetoric used to justify abortion is that as long as the embryo or fetus is incapable of surviving on its own, it is indeed subject to the will of the actual human being who is hosting it. That a clump of cells or even a fetus doesn’t have more rights than the actual human beings involved. Once a fetus is viable, then it should not be subject to whims, or personal decisions, but it should still be subject to medical decisions to save the life of the mother, or to mitigate suffering in the case of severe deformities that are incompatible with survival.

But MOST IMPORTANTLY, that the state has no right to take away a woman’s bodily autonomy. Women are full-fledged humans with every right inherent to that state.

This is about as flawed a comparison as I’ve seen on here in a while.

That’s precisely the point.

Not everyone agrees with you. There are folks out there who believe a fetus is a human life. To them your explanation is dehumanizing. The rhetoric is the same as the rhetoric used to justify the Holocaust and Slavery.

But is it? I don’t think prochoice people are Nazi sympathizers because they happen to use the same rhetoric. For one thing, it’s a different group of people in a different country in a different time and a totally different set of circumstances.

People who didn’t vote for Harris and/or people who chose to support Trump don’t harbor some kind of Nazi sympathies. It is a different group
of people in a different country in a different time and entirely different set of circumstances.

Lastly, trying to compare the other side to Nazism is counter productive. It just widens the gap between people in an already highly divided country. There are a number of things this country needs to address that will require bipartisanship. It’s harder to get there when the rhetoric is so heated.

 

[J-DONK]

That’s precisely the point.

Not everyone agrees with you. There are folks out there who believe a fetus is a human life. To them your explanation is dehumanizing. The rhetoric is the same as the rhetoric used to justify the Holocaust and Slavery.

But is it? I don’t think prochoice people are Nazi sympathizers because they happen to use the same rhetoric. For one thing, it’s a different group of people in a different country in a different time and a totally different set of circumstances.

People who didn’t vote for Harris and/or people who chose to support Trump don’t harbor some kind of Nazi sympathies. It is a different group
of people in a different country in a different time and entirely different set of circumstances.

Lastly, trying to compare the other side to Nazism is counter productive. It just widens the gap between people in an already highly divided country. There are a number of things this country needs to address that will require bipartisanship. It’s harder to get there when the rhetoric is so heated.

This is silly.

There are a few groups of people you could probably pull back who voted for Trump but overall 60 million people have voted for Trump 3 times.

Trump is the first convicted felon as president. He did try to overthrow the government. He is an adjucated rapist.

I'm sure there were Germans who voted for Hilter who didn't beleive what he said about Jews they just wanted a better economy. They were still Nazi's.

Anyone who is still talk about gaps, and middle ground didn't pay attention to this election. Kamala Harris tried exactly that. She thought she could drive out the never Trump middle class surburan vote, and failed.

What planet do you live on? You come on this board and talk about politics, but are blithely unware of current events?

Right now, the incoming adminstration goals:

1. Activate the military for mass deportation, and intermittent camps.
2. Purge the military of all disloyal to Trump.
3. Purge the government of guardrail and regulatory agencies: FBI, Nuclear Reg Com, DoE, and ATF

Republicans are authortarian extremist. There is no middle ground. There should be no middle ground.

The enlightened centrist thing played out long, long, long ago.

There is no bipartisanship left. Democrats need to treat Republicans like they've been treated for two decades: The Enemy

 

[Optimus Prime]

Not everyone agrees with you. There are folks out there who believe a fetus is a human life. To them your explanation is dehumanizing. The rhetoric is the same as the rhetoric used to justify the Holocaust and Slavery.

and a lot of those same folks could care less what happens to that fetus when it's born and is actually living life

Cuts to welfare, childcare, food stamps, free lunch, etc.

Once born the mother is now a moocher who should have made better life choices (other than the one she was trying to make which was to not have a child when she knew she couldn't afford it)

 

[TampaJoe]

This is silly.

There are a few groups of people you could probably pull back who voted for Trump but overall 60 million people have voted for Trump 3 times.

Trump is the first convicted felon as president. He did try to overthrow the government. He is an adjucated rapist.

I'm sure there were Germans who voted for Hilter who didn't beleive what he said about Jews they just wanted a better economy. They were still Nazi's.

Anyone who is still talk about gaps, and middle ground didn't pay attention to this election. Kamala Harris tried exactly that. She thought she could drive out the never Trump middle class surburan vote, and failed.

What planet do you live on? You come on this board and talk about politics, but are blithely unware of current events?

Right now, the incoming adminstration goals:

1. Activate the military for mass deportation, and intermittent camps.
2. Purge the military of all disloyal to Trump.
3. Purge the government of guardrail and regulatory agencies: FBI, Nuclear Reg Com, DoE, and ATF

Republicans are authortarian extremist. There is no middle ground. There should be no middle ground.

The enlightened centrist thing played out long, long, long ago.

There is no bipartisanship left. Democrats need to treat Republicans like they've been treated for two decades: The Enemy

Thats entirely up to you.

 

[J-DONK]

Thats entirely up to you.

Well if you want sum it up with one liners: "Read the room dude"

 

[Sendai]

Nope. You’re just wishcasting. He got less than 50% of the vote. He doesn’t have anything near a mandate. Sorry.

I’ve not mentioned mandate. Show me a veto proof house and senate and I might give it consideration. And even then it’s unlikely.

I simply pointed out the appropriate meaning of the words “most” and
“majority “.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I've said this before

I'm torn between hoping and praying that it's not nearly as bad as we fear it could be

Another part of me is with @CoolBrees and I hope it's every bad as we feared it would be, said it would be, warned and yelled it would be

"Who would have thought that a selfish, grifting, cheating, narcissistic criminal who said he would burn it all down would burn it all down?"

Of course, my cynical side thinks if that did happen and the GOP took big losses in the midterms and lost the White House in 2028 they'll do what they do and get voted right back in power in 32

 

[Optimus Prime]

Despite repeated claims from GOP corners that the United States gave Donald Trump a "mandate" on Election Day, the president-elect has still not secured a majority of the popular vote.

According to the Cook Political Report, Trump has netted 76.8 million votes to Kamala Harris' 74.2 million votes. Trump's share of the ballots is good for 49.89% of the current tallied vote total. If the current margin of roughly 2.4 million votes holds, it will be the closest margin of victory since the contest between Al Gore and George W. Bush in 2000.

Trump's current lead in the popular vote count is smaller than the one Hillary Clinton put up on him in 2016. Clinton gained 2.8 million more votes than Trump in her electoral loss.

Harris lost both the electoral college and popular vote outright, and that is unlikely to change as the vote tallies finalize. Still, the initial conception of the election as a landslide in favor of Trump does not appear to be accurate. That hasn't stopped Republican leaders from painting the victory as a clear sign that their agenda is overwhelmingly popular.

House Speaker Mike Johnson has repeatedly brought up Trump's supposed "mandate" while pushing the president's controversial Cabinet nominees. While speaking to Jake Tapper on CNN this weekend, Johnson said that nominees like Matt Gaetz and Kristi Noem were merely a manifestation of the average American's desire for change...............

What mandate? Trump's popular vote lead is slimmest since Bush-Gore | Salon.com

Award-winning news and culture, features breaking news, in-depth reporting and criticism on politics, science, food and entertainment.

www.salon.com

 

[MT15]

To them your explanation is dehumanizing.

Nope. If anything they are demonizing women - does “baby killers” ring a bell? You will never get me to see this as anything but a huge false equivalency. Because it is such a ridiculous premise. Nobody is demonizing fetuses - absolutely nobody.

You have subtly shifted from ‘demonizing’ to ‘dehumanizing’ because you have to do that to have a leg to stand on.

 

[Optimus Prime]

even when they lose
===============

Republicans in North Carolina rushed a bill through the legislature this week to boost their power before they lose their supermajority, approving a measure to give their party more control over elections, eliminate the jobs of judges who have ruled against them and limit the authority of the incoming Democratic governor and attorney general.

Republicans hold three-fifths majorities in the legislature and have used that power to override vetoes by Gov. Roy Cooper (D). In January, they’ll lose the ability to easily roll back vetoes by incoming Gov. Josh Stein (D) because they’ll no longer hold such a large majority in the North Carolina House.

The GOP response has been to flex their power now, while they still have it. They loaded up a $227 million Hurricane Helene relief package with an array of provisions that weaken the hand of Stein and other Democrats in the battleground state. Hours after unveiling the proposals, the state House passed the bill Tuesday night, and the state Senate approved it Wednesday.

The lame-duck bill will shift the ability to appoint members of the state and county elections boards from the governor to the state auditor. That will mean Republicans instead of Democrats will control those boards, which oversee ballot tallies, set voting rules and decide how many early-voting locations to open.

“It’s really one of the more blatant partisan power grabs for authority over elections that we’ve seen in recent years,” said Megan Bellamy, vice president for law and policy for the nonprofit Voting Rights Lab. “And the fact that it’s packaged into a bill that’s meant to provide much-needed hurricane relief and support there is beyond the pale.”

State Rep. Destin Hall, whom Republicans have chosen to serve as speaker starting in January, downplayed the sweep of the changes in an exchange with reporters after the measure passed his chamber. “I don’t know that there were any real shockers in there, and they’re things that we’ve talked about and debated before the storm,” he said.............

MSN

Republicans in North Carolina pass sweeping changes to consolidate power​

 

[MT15]

I’ve not mentioned mandate. Show me a veto proof house and senate and I might give it consideration. And even then it’s unlikely.

I simply pointed out the appropriate meaning of the words “most” and
“majority “.

Well, I was not meaning you personally, more the MAGA world who are running around all puffed up and self-important. I saw some random Twitter user respond to an analyst - I think it was Tom Nichols - with a “shut up, we’re in charge now”. And Twitter is awash in MAGA folks acting much, much worse than that.

“In parliamentary procedure, a majority always means precisely "more than half".”

Trump didn’t win more than half the votes. He’s the thinnest victory in years and years.

 

[MT15]

even when they lose
===============

Republicans in North Carolina rushed a bill through the legislature this week to boost their power before they lose their supermajority, approving a measure to give their party more control over elections, eliminate the jobs of judges who have ruled against them and limit the authority of the incoming Democratic governor and attorney general.

Republicans hold three-fifths majorities in the legislature and have used that power to override vetoes by Gov. Roy Cooper (D). In January, they’ll lose the ability to easily roll back vetoes by incoming Gov. Josh Stein (D) because they’ll no longer hold such a large majority in the North Carolina House.

The GOP response has been to flex their power now, while they still have it. They loaded up a $227 million Hurricane Helene relief package with an array of provisions that weaken the hand of Stein and other Democrats in the battleground state. Hours after unveiling the proposals, the state House passed the bill Tuesday night, and the state Senate approved it Wednesday.

The lame-duck bill will shift the ability to appoint members of the state and county elections boards from the governor to the state auditor. That will mean Republicans instead of Democrats will control those boards, which oversee ballot tallies, set voting rules and decide how many early-voting locations to open.

“It’s really one of the more blatant partisan power grabs for authority over elections that we’ve seen in recent years,” said Megan Bellamy, vice president for law and policy for the nonprofit Voting Rights Lab. “And the fact that it’s packaged into a bill that’s meant to provide much-needed hurricane relief and support there is beyond the pale.”

State Rep. Destin Hall, whom Republicans have chosen to serve as speaker starting in January, downplayed the sweep of the changes in an exchange with reporters after the measure passed his chamber. “I don’t know that there were any real shockers in there, and they’re things that we’ve talked about and debated before the storm,” he said.............

MSN

Republicans in North Carolina pass sweeping changes to consolidate power​

Various GOP state legislatures have done this before. They’re all terrible people imo.

 

[TampaJoe]

I’ve not mentioned mandate. Show me a veto proof house and senate and I might give it consideration. And even then it’s unlikely.

I simply pointed out the appropriate meaning of the words “most” and
“majority “.

The last thing I’ve seen close to what you could call a mandate was Obama’s victory in his first term.

 

[Optimus Prime]

..........But as the fuller election results roll in, that claim begins to erode.

And a more holistic look — at races not just for president and the Senate but also for the House and state legislatures — reinforces the reality that voters actually didn’t shift toward Republicans that much.

We learned a while back that Republicans lost most of the swing-state Senate races — four of five. They flipped the chamber because they won in three red states that Trump carried by double digits.

Then we learned that Trump didn’t even win a majority of the popular vote, and his popular-vote margin over Vice President Kamala Harris (currently at 1.7 points and falling) ranks on the low side for recent history.

He still won — and swept the swing states in a surprisingly decisive electoral-college result — but a majority of voters didn’t support him.

And now it’s increasingly evident that Republicans could actually lose ground in the House. Democrats’ gains in California’s razor-thin 13th District race suggest they could flip that seat and actually wind up with a net gain of one seat. If they did, the likely result (a 220-215 GOP majority) would be the second-smallest House majority in history — not exactly the stuff of overwhelming mandates.

The story is similar when you get even more granular, by looking at state legislative races.

According to data from the National Conference of State Legislatures (which does yeoman’s work tracking the more than 7,000 state legislative districts), Republicans made only modest gains across the country in the 2024 election.

The key points:

• Before the election, as of mid-October, Republicans controlled about 55.3 percent of state legislative seats. Their most recent election results, as of Nov. 15, show Republicans bumping that up to about 56 percent.
• While dozens of vacancies before the election complicate the math on precisely how many seats each side gained and lost (this is the reason I’ve focused on percentages), Republicans expanded their margin in total seats held by 112 seats. That roughly translates to flipping 56 seats, across 50 states — just more than one seat flipping per state.
• That’s a smaller shift than you usually see in presidential election years, when the average shift is 78 seats, according to the NCSL.
• And now we get to the most interesting stat I’ve found. It turns out about half of that roughly 56-seat nationwide GOP gain happened in one state. And you would probably never guess which one: Vermont. Republican Gov. Phil Scott’s landslide victory (he won 73 percent of the vote) helped sweep many other Republicans into office in the deep-blue state and chip away at their formerly huge deficit. The GOP gained more than two dozen seats in the state legislature, although they remain in the minority.

In other words, if you take tiny and politically unusual Vermont out of it, Republicans gained less than a seat per state, and flipped 0.4 percent of seats nationwide — about 1 out of every 250.

None of this is to say that Republicans didn’t actually win the election; they clearly did. It’s just that Trump’s sweep of the swing states on election night was misleading when it comes to how close the election wound up being and how little the GOP gained in the end............

Mandate? Fuller election results increasingly show GOP gains were small.​

 

[Optimus Prime]

Thought was a good read

I think the lack of local media is a huge point that isn't talked about much
=================================================

November’s election results were heartbreaking to me and so many rural Democrats who were working hard to help our communities. For context, there are 3,143 counties in America. More than 2,500 of them have fewer than 100,000 residents (Ohio State’s stadium seats more people than that) and 48.7 percent of them have fewer than 25,000 people.

I live in a town in the rural county where I was born. I returned after being gone for 26 years and was stunned at my community’s decline. In 2016, I ran as a Democrat in my rural district. I narrowly lost in the 2016 Trump landslide.

Since then, I have connected with thousands of rural people across the country to better understand why people no longer trust either party and opt to vote for Trump Republicans, and what happened to the once dominant Democratic Party.

Donald Trump doubled his rural vote advantage over his Democratic opponent from 15 percent in 2020 to 30 percent in 2024.

As people evaluate what happened to Democrats in this election, it is important to keep in mind this is not just about politics. Republican control of the county commission in my county brought about an end to mental health funding. All elections matter.

As a rural Democrat I wanted to share a few insights from the field.

Lack of understanding: So many Democrats and progressives in politics write off rural Americans as “low information Trump voters.” The truth is the values of hard work, freedom, fairness, and love of family, community and country abound here. Rural America was once a Democratic stronghold at every level of government, but over the past 30 years, both parties have abandoned us.

Manufacturing and natural resource job losses, lack of infrastructure investment, gas prices over $3.50 a gallon, skyrocketing food prices, and living in health care, child-care and food deserts have led to anger and frustration. The diseases of despair ravage our families and communities. Democratic neglect enabled Republicans to seize the opportunity to build political power and blame Democrats for all that has gone wrong.

Loss of balanced local news: Large swaths of rural America no longer have access to local news, while right-wing syndicates have bought many of the rural media outlets that remain.

According to a report from Northwestern, rural counties are the hardest hit by this disturbing trend. “There are 204 counties with no local news outlet. Of the 3,143 counties in the U.S., more than half, or 1,766, have either no local news source or only one remaining outlet, typically a weekly newspaper. … Since 2005, the U.S. has lost 2,900 newspapers.” The country is expected to “lose one-third of all its newspapers by the end of next year. There are about 6,000 newspapers remaining, the vast majority of which are weeklies.”

Absence of competition in elections: Currently, Trump Republicans control many state and local offices in rural counties. According to recent research, up to 58 percent of offices go unchallenged, and in rural places that number is even higher. Democrats are afraid to put up a yard sign and it is very challenging to get people to run.

The lack of representation is alarming. The absence of accountability allows these Trump Republican elected officials to prove that government doesn’t work by refusing to make critical investments that impact economic opportunity, infrastructure, public health, education, public safety, housing, election integrity and climate resilience.............

https://thehill.com/opinion/4999406-rural-democrats-election-loss/

 

[TampaJoe]

Nope. If anything they are demonizing women - does “baby killers” ring a bell? You will never get me to see this as anything but a huge false equivalency. Because it is such a ridiculous premise. Nobody is demonizing fetuses - absolutely nobody.

You have subtly shifted from ‘demonizing’ to ‘dehumanizing’ because you have to do that to have a leg to stand on.

Call it what you want.

As I have said numerous times, comparing today’s US politics to Nazism in the 30’s and 40’s is, in my view, the ultimate false equivalency. It matters not which leg you stand on or if you’re standing at all.

 

[brandon]

Not everyone agrees with you. There are folks out there who believe a fetus is a human life.

Do you believe life begins at conception?

 

[Optimus Prime]

WASHINGTON — Vice President-elect JD Vance tweeted — and then deleted — a message with so many spectacular self-owns that it is worth taking a moment to dissect what he did.

On Tuesday, Vance posted a message on X, formerly known as Twitter, defending his recent absences from the Senate. He’s still an Ohio Republican senator, but he and a handful of other GOP senators haven’t been showing up for Senate votes in the lame duck. Their absences are frustrating some in their party as Democrats are confirming lots of President Joe Biden’s judges without much resistance from Republicans.

Vance was specifically called out by Grace Chong, chief financial officer and chief operating officer for “Bannon’s War Room,” the podcast hosted by Steve Bannon, a close ally to President-elect Donald Trump. She tagged Vance and Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) in a Tuesday post saying, “You guys better show up and do your fricken job!!” She has since deleted her post.............

JD Vance Just Tweeted, Then Deleted, A Post With So Many Self-Owns In it

He accidentally revealed Trump is vetting FBI directors, attacked a Steve Bannon ally and scoffed at helping with Senate votes — until Trump made him do it.

www.huffpost.com