General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (2 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[Krodwhodat]

It will still be here, but in what form? Will it still be recognizable? There won't be any checks and balances this time around. Also (R) are very anti union, so I don't understand why union workers would think Trump will solve their problems.

So the carpenters union in NY follows suit and will only endorse a person under certain circumstances. They said if Harris got a majority vote from the carpenters they would endorse her, if Trump got they would endorse him. Trump was closer to getting the endorsement than her.
I think it’s a wait and see. If he does a good job and people prosper then Vance is next, if he fails then the democrat candidate will win. Like him or not, if Covid doesn’t hit he wins reelection by a huge margin. The checks and balances are there. He had all three in 16 and couldn’t do whatever he wanted. Get outside, spend time with family and enjoy life as best as you can. The people spoke and someone won. It’s how things are supposed to work.

 

[Infoman]

You can call things propaganda and narrative all day... When people feel it everyday... They feel it everyday... The Young, Black, Latino, Male etc vote swung the other way in this election by a lot percentage-wise... and it wasn't because of talking points, propaganda, and stats...

Minorities, Men, Union workers, Legal Immigrants, Grocery shoppers, People looking for jobs, First time home buyers, Kids graduating from college, etc... Felt it everyday.

Telling them they don't, or they have to expect less for the greater good... is not going to fly.

 

[coldseat]

I’ve been reading all night and I think everyone needs to take a collective breathe. The democrats keep talking about the person in these elections. Most people who are looking at this from a normal view aren’t looking at the people, they are looking at the policies. It didn’t matter the person who ran against Trump, they weren’t going to win because they were white or male or whatever. The person could have changed but the message would have been the same.
There is a reason why they lost ground in the Latino and black male vote. I work in NY and in construction. I couldn’t believe the amount of people, especially union workers who were preaching trump this time. Non union companies are running rampant now in construction and are using labor brokers with illegals. It’s taking work and food out of the Latino citizens and black men. The unions now account for only 20% of the construction in NY and even less in NJ. Worse everywhere else. I have at least 10 Latino guys in my office that are staunch immigration. That’s the main reason they voted Trump. That’s just one of the policies that the democrats aren’t connecting with the majority on. Now you can say they addressed it or were but not in a way that related to people. There are many more policies that a lot of ordinary people find too liberal. If you look at this board for instance to see the same handful of people who live in a polarized world whose lives revolve around politics. Their tvs stay on their teams channel or their social media is full of their side as well as friends. It’s unhealthy and not representative of a majority of the nation. Most people knew Obama wasn’t going to turn us into a socialist country, most people knew Trump wasn’t going to turn us into a fascist country. It’s only a handful of extremist on both sides.

I don't doubt your assessment one bit, and yet I find it so lacking in rational justification. Almost to the point of being laughable if it wasn't also accurate. I guess I just understand way to much about how policy connects to outcomes. Maybe I should just go back to the 2000's when I didn't pay attention to politics and wasn't burdened by it, that way I can rest in the same ignorance as my fellow Americans.

a majority of Americans are looking at policies, social issues and economic issues in a pretty moderate way and it just so happens that they went a little conservative this time. The overdramatized nonsense it silly. People will continue to go to work, the economy will move forward and the world will move on just like they did after every election. Nobody has to leave the country, nobody has to freak out about the end of democracy. Yes January 6 was stupid and a black eye but most Americans don’t care because they don’t see it as an insurrection, it’s something extreme liberals use through their media and social network outlets. The everyday American didn’t see it that way. Same with the right saying the democrats overthrew a sitting president and forced him to step down in the middle of a re-election campaign. These aren’t issues Americans want solved. Just my 2 cents but I promise the country will be here in 4 years and there will be another election

It's weird how the 66 million people that voted for Harris aren't everyday Americans just because she lost or that they don't think Jan 6th was an insurrection. But obviously enough Americans didn't care about it, which is damming statement about Americans.

 

[Krodwhodat]

I think the majority of us are concerned with civil liberties being eroded. The rights of minority groups being attacked relentlessly. As someone with family members in this group it is extremely concerning. If the GOP wasn’t so hell bent on theocratic policies, this wouldn’t be nearly as large a concern. But here we are. That has become their identity.

So I understand what you’re trying to get at. Yes we’ll have a country left. No Trump is not Hitler. But the history and trajectory is bad news, objectively, for millions of Americans.

what civil liberties? I think we as a country have been pretty progressive over the last 20/30 years when it comes to certain minorities and groups. I saw, and I’ll try to find it, that Trump did better with Latinos, African Americans and LGBQT than he did last election. I’d love to understand your fears.
Look we all want the same thing. There aren’t many policies we differ on wanting, it just how we get there is what’s difficult

 

[J-DONK]

You can call things propaganda and narrative all day... When people feel it everyday... They feel it everyday... The Young, Black, Latino, Male etc vote swung the other way in this election by a lot percentage-wise... and it wasn't because of talking points, propaganda, and stats...

Minorities, Men, Union workers, Legal Immigrants, Grocery shoppers, People looking for jobs, First time home buyers, Kids graduating from college, etc... Felt it everyday.

Telling them they don't, or they have to expect less for the greater good... is not going to fly.

What do they "feel"? It's blaming economic plight on an outgroup via propaganda vs internal policies.

This is making the argument that young men, and America's in general wouldn't fall for propaganda, or tiktok memes.

That's hilarious honestly. They are exactly that dumb.

 

[SystemShock]

I’ve been reading all night and I think everyone needs to take a collective breathe. The democrats keep talking about the person in these elections. Most people who are looking at this from a normal view aren’t looking at the people, they are looking at the policies. It didn’t matter the person who ran against Trump, they weren’t going to win because they were white or male or whatever. The person could have changed but the message would have been the same.
There is a reason why they lost ground in the Latino and black male vote. I work in NY and in construction. I couldn’t believe the amount of people, especially union workers who were preaching trump this time. Non union companies are running rampant now in construction and are using labor brokers with illegals. It’s taking work and food out of the Latino citizens and black men. The unions now account for only 20% of the construction in NY and even less in NJ. Worse everywhere else. I have at least 10 Latino guys in my office that are staunch immigration. That’s the main reason they voted Trump. That’s just one of the policies that the democrats aren’t connecting with the majority on. Now you can say they addressed it or were but not in a way that related to people. There are many more policies that a lot of ordinary people find too liberal. If you look at this board for instance to see the same handful of people who live in a polarized world whose lives revolve around politics. Their tvs stay on their teams channel or their social media is full of their side as well as friends. It’s unhealthy and not representative of a majority of the nation. Most people knew Obama wasn’t going to turn us into a socialist country, most people knew Trump wasn’t going to turn us into a fascist country. It’s only a handful of extremist on both sides.


a majority of Americans are looking at policies, social issues and economic issues in a pretty moderate way and it just so happens that they went a little conservative this time. The overdramatized nonsense it silly. People will continue to go to work, the economy will move forward and the world will move on just like they did after every election. Nobody has to leave the country, nobody has to freak out about the end of democracy. Yes January 6 was stupid and a black eye but most Americans don’t care because they don’t see it as an insurrection, it’s something extreme liberals use through their media and social network outlets. The everyday American didn’t see it that way. Same with the right saying the democrats overthrew a sitting president and forced him to step down in the middle of a re-election campaign. These aren’t issues Americans want solved. Just my 2 cents but I promise the country will be here in 4 years and there will be another election

I've mentioned this on many occasions before, but people 'round here don't believe me... people who come from SoTB aren't that supportive of other people coming from SoTB, as they see them as competition for labor, especially if the people already in the U.S. have already formalized their immigration status.

I've also said there is a division between the so called "Latinos" (that term irks me). SoTB is not a monolith. This division was very evident when Trump said all the things he said about Mexico.

 

[efil4]

I added it...

I wanted to tell this to folks here months ago... I have 20s - 30s age female daughters with young families... I hang out with them and their friends... I knew it was going to go like this. No one here would have given me much more than a laugh had I said it then... So I didn't.

the number one was money, right?

So i ask then, how much money is "enough" for them? in their respective age groups. Did they expect to be making $150,000/yr at this age? $100,000? what path did they choose ( career )? Did they know about that career pay going in? the ceiling? investing? home ownership? economic cycles? disposable income? So many questions to how they arrived at " making money, affording family, and security ( and im assuming by "security" they meant financial not physical? )

im genuinely curious because i have friends with same age group kids that have a completely different perspective regarding importance. Shoot, my 21 yr old and her friends have a completely different set of concerns.

I think we struggle to advise our kids on their "expectations" early and often- especially when it comes to finances. They form their own based on environment with no cross-reference.


( not saying you specifically- but in general- we struggle to teach our children about finances and the real world )

 

[fooferdoggie]

America deserves Trump. we are a stupid nation, and we need to get our arses kicked to stop being so stupid. Do you have any bets on how soon Vace will take over?

 

[SystemShock]

Is that any better?

I didn't say it was better. I am just saying, don't go by what Trump says, go by what the people around him do. And when it comes to money, very few put their ideology over making money, especially the very rich.

 

[Krodwhodat]

I don't doubt your assessment one bit, and yet I find it so lacking in rational justification. Almost to the point of being laughable if it wasn't also accurate. I guess I just understand way to much about how policy connects to outcomes. Maybe I should just go back to the 2000's when I didn't pay attention to politicas and wasn't burdened by it, that way I can rest in the same ignorance as my fellow Americans.



It's weird how the 66 million people that voted for Harris aren't everyday Americans just because she lost or that they don't think Jan 6th was an insurrection. But obviously enough Americans didn't care about it, which is damming statement about Americans.

It’s not that they don’t care, it wasn’t the priority that most people wanted it to be. Right, wrong or in different, obviously to the majority of Americans it wasn’t as important as some want to make it out to be. Your opinion is one thing but so is someone else’s. Those 66milion people don’t agree on everything, they just had certain policies and ideals that they felt were more important to them than what others thought. That’s why I said the person doesn’t matter.

 

[not2rich]

It really is. My point was it's much bigger then America. This has been happening world wide.

Also, our economy is doing way better then most of the west.

I stick to the number 1 issue for Harris was she didn't seperate herself from Biden enough.

I get and agree with your larger point too. I do wonder how much Harris really could have separated herself from Biden - ultimately, she was part of the administration.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Look we all want the same thing. There aren’t many policies we differ on wanting, it just how we get there is what’s difficult

That used to be true. I don't think it is anymore

One side was the offense the other the defense, on the same team and both wanted the same thing at the end, to work together to win the game

The only question was how exactly?

great offense or great defense?

High flying and high scoring, or great ball control run game? Awesome pass rush or smothering pass defense?

Now it seems that one side is the offense the other the defense but now on opposite teams and the goal is to beat the other side

 

[RobF]

What do they "feel"? It's blaming economic plight on an outgroup via propaganda vs internal policies.

This is making the argument that young men, and America's in general wouldn't fall for propaganda, or tiktok memes.

That's hilarious honestly. They are exactly that dumb.

I think it's - possibly unintentionally - arguing that they're voting from ignorance.

Because if the argument is they're not paying attention to anything, they're just going, "Do I think things aren't great for me, if so, vote for person not currently in power," sure. There'll be plenty of people doing that.

But if the argument is that they're starting from that feeling, then carefully considering the candidates and their policies from primary sources and objective assessments, no. They're clearly not doing that. Because that would lead in the exact opposite direction. Trump is, objectively , a terrible candidate whose policies are doomed to make things worse.

There will be plenty starting from that feeling and falling for propaganda and tiktok memes though. That's what the propaganda and tiktok memes are designed to feed off.

 

[DaveXA]

They nominated a legitimate candidate in a very difficult situation and rallied behind her. She had a credible running mate and the pair showed time and again that they have empathy and they have a plan and a vision. That's the path forward. The problem is not the DNC. The problem is an electorate that looks at Donald Trump and thinks, "yeah, that's a presidential guy".

Well then, keep losing elections because you can't figure out why people aren't voting for you. Pointing fingers isn't gonna change a damn thing.

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[Lapaz]

High inflatation was a world wide thing post covid. A lot of incumbent parties lost this time around.

IMO the two major mistakes were:

1. Not seperating herself from Biden enough.
2. Embracing people like the Cheney's. Whoever thought that was a good idea should be done with politics for life.

If Biden doesn't run, and gives Dem's a primary. You get a candidate who doesn't have to run with any baggage. I have no idea if you win, but it's safe to say you do way better then this outcome. What a disaster.

I disagree with your major mistakes. I think she should've embraced and defended Biden, but could've acknowledged simple mistakes. She needed to acknowledge that there were some difficult times due to the high inflation that was global, but then point out how inflation had come down and how we would continue to make progress. That would've been more genuine. I think few people believed the message she was giving that she was just different by just pointing to her values and life experience, without pointing out why Biden's was inadequate. Instead, she needed to own and laud the accomplishments. She barely talked about the progress.

As far as embracing Republicans, I doubt that hurt her. I'm a centrist Democrat, so I don't agree with much of Cheney's policies, but I agreed with her principled stance for America. That is what she represented for Harris. She also represented a willingness to be civil with the other side.

Harris also never adequately explained why her positions changed. It was always a double standard, because Trump also changed many of his positions, but that was the playing field.

 

[SamAndreas]

America deserves Trump. we are a stupid nation, and we need to get our arses kicked to stop being so stupid. Do you have any suggestions on how soon Vace will take over?

I don't think Vance is anything more than a yes-man figurehead. Musk and company are the power behind the throne now.

Even the Criminal is not the one holding the real strings of power.

Different billionaires than the ones we'd previously grown accustomed to.

 

[J-DONK]

I think it's - possibly unintentionally - arguing that they're voting from ignorance.

Because if the argument is they're not paying attention to anything, they're just going, "Do I think things aren't great for me, if so, vote for person not currently in power," sure. There'll be plenty of people doing that.

But if the argument is that they're starting from that feeling, then carefully considering the candidates and their policies from primary sources and objective assessments, no. They're clearly not doing that. Because that would lead in the exact opposite direction. Trump is, objectively , a terrible candidate whose policies are doomed to make things worse.

There will be plenty starting from that feeling and falling for propaganda and tiktok memes though. That's what the propaganda and tiktok memes are designed to feed off.

I agree with this.

This board is so far outside of the norm of most Americans.

"Did Joe Biden dropout?" surged yesterday as a google trend.

I'm not going to hold these people up as anything other then what they are though. Idiots.