General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (1 Viewer)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[Lapaz]

I’m hopeful that he doesn’t make it through his 4 years (like Biden), and that Vance comes in.

As bad as Trump is, Trump is only out for himself, so Vance could be worse, because he is a true believer. Vance will implement Project 2025 even faster than Trump. He wrote the foreword to it.

 

[SteveSBrickNJ]

More than any other particular issue imo.. I think inflation doomed her. I'm not sure any Democrat - connected to the administration or not - was going to be able to overcome it. Other things played a role too, but I really do believe that people voted with their pocketbooks more than anything else.

Yes

 

[Lapaz]

Tariffs are not inherently bad; on the contrary, they are meant to protect national business/manufacturing, and bring prices of foreign goods on a level with prices of U.S. goods.

Back in 2010? the Obama administration put a very high tariff on Chinese tires. China was flooding the U.S. market with extremely cheap tires, and U.S. tire manufacturers could not compete price-wise. The quality of the Chinese tires was pretty much on a par with the cheapo versions of U.S. tires.

How many Chinese car brands are there in the U.S.? I don't remember one. Here in MX, there are 25. MX doesn't have a national brand, all cars manufactured here are either U.S., German, Japanese, or Korean. The Chinese cars still under-cut every other brand in price. They even steal the looks and logos of other brands. (The Chinese even stole the logo for IMSS, the MX social healthcare program, just made it red instead of green).

Can tariffs be abused/mishandled? Sure. But they are not inherently bad.

Tariffs are not inherently bad if small and targeted to true abuses by other nations, but they are the way Trump has proposed them. He is proposing not 10% tariffs, but 200% tariffs in an effort to force companies throughout the world to onshore. The problem is that that will eliminate competition in the U.S., which will cause huge inflation of those products that will spread to others, and it will lead to retaliatory tariffs on our products, which will kill our exports. Trump's approach would be the definition of abusing and mishandling tariffs.

 

[el caliente]

Yeah, I knew the writing was on the wall when NBC was showing counties that Biden performed better in 2020.
The % Harris lost was basically the same that Trump gained

It seems like the Democratic Party FAFO.

 

[Poison]

More than any other particular issue imo.. I think inflation doomed her. I'm not sure any Democrat - connected to the administration or not - was going to be able to overcome it. Other things played a role too, but I really do believe that people voted with their pocketbooks more than anything else.

I heard on the radio that something like 67% of voters who were surveyed as part of exit polling categorised the performance of the US economy as below average or worse, when objectively, it is presently in good shape.

The problem with inflation is while it might be in the target range now, the price of goods doesn’t revert to the pre-inflationary figure. So it was an issue that I suppose Biden/Harris could never really get out in front of.

Having said all that, while the recriminations might be playing out for the Democrats now around candidate selection and campaign messaging, maybe people just need to come to terms with the reality that a very significant portion of the American population wants to be ruled by a strongman with clear fascist tendencies.

As a friend of mine eloquently put it:

“They are not voting for Trump because they haven’t been heard or reached out to. They’ve heard what they want to hear, and they have made a conscious, overt choice of fascism. It is what they want. They want to be able to punch down, to marginalise, to hate, to fear. It is the entire pitch, honestly and brazenly copped to by Trump, and these voters are making a clear declaration that they want fascism.

…

You can’t ‘reach across the aisle’ to these voters. Because all you are doing in their eyes is showing weakness. Compromise is for losers, policy is for nerds, foreign issues are for coastal elites, and anything that does not further entrench and support the white, Christian patriarchy, preferably at the expense of women, people of colour and any other minority, is radical left woke mind virus. So you can never have climate action, universal health care or primary school kids not riddled with bullets from semi-automatic weapons.

Not because they don’t know better or haven’t been heard. It’s because it’s what they want.“

 

[bird]

More than any other particular issue imo.. I think inflation doomed her. I'm not sure any Democrat - connected to the administration or not - was going to be able to overcome it. Other things played a role too, but I really do believe that people voted with their pocketbooks more than anything else.

Inflation is a term of art because economics is a term of art. People whined about inflation but inflation is measured by a near useless group of pricing. For instance, many note that PE has bought up rental units and since the goal is profitability which is not arbitrarily price. What, exactly, would the Federal government do about that? What about “affordable housing” which includes single family houses?

The intervention into the rigged so-called free market would be massive.

What about food prices? And gasoline? Well, gas prices are damn near meaningless. They are predicated on the price of oil. And the Orange Idiot has said “drill, drill, drill on day one” which will do nothing. We are already drilling and producing more than anyone else. We are also exporting oil and refined product. As for food? How many food inputs are commodities and subject to speculation, natural disaster? What will happen if the Orange Idiot deports all immigrants?

As for corporate profits? Everyone yelped about gouging and undoubtedly some probably went on. However, companies set gross profit percentage targets. If I have posted this little example in the past then my apologies. If a company sells a product that costs $1 and wants to make 50% gross profit percentage then they sell it for $2. If the cost goes up to $1.50 then they have to sell it at $3.00. The gross profit dollars automatically increase more than the dollar cost changes. Since food is controlled by an oligopolistic system with multiple intermediates between processing and retail selling prices are manipulated to provide “choices” while maintaining margin percentages in the aggregate.

Get ready for inflation to jump. The dollar rose on the news of Trump winning.

Of bigger concern is the possibility of the dollar being replaced as reserve currency. It won’t be crypto because crypto isn’t money despite the tech bros fever dreams.

 

[Lapaz]

NBC reporting she is losing the Arab American vote in Dearborne Michigan. She's 3rd behind Trump and
Jill Stein. Looking like Stein has influenced a swing state.

I feel sorry for Palestine. Israel is about to get the green light to wipe it out. Lebanon too. Arabs will suffer much more under Trump, but it just shows how stupid they are too, so they fit in with half of the American population.

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[Lapaz]

More than any other particular issue imo.. I think inflation doomed her. I'm not sure any Democrat - connected to the administration or not - was going to be able to overcome it. Other things played a role too, but I really do believe that people voted with their pocketbooks more than anything else.

The problem was that Harris couldn't defend the policies that got inflation down. It is down to about 2.1%, but Trump will take credit for it, because his idiot followers will believe he did it. Harris should've acknowledged that their policies contributed to inflation, but they were needed to prevent a recession, and in the long term got inflation down with a soft landing. Had Trump been in office, we would've landed hard, and probably would have had a recession. I predict a recession or possibly a depression coming if Trump implements his promises.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Comment on YouTube

My parents didn't have me until their 40s. Seeing my 70 year old dad who I never see cry on his knees balling crying his heart out with pain because of the evils of this country letting that man win broke me. Seeing him up all night on the phone consoling my mom and older brother and sister and relatives. Seeing him literally mourn the lgbtq, black and brown, asian , women, those with disabilities and every other or those consider different, I seriously don't understand how America could be this cruel. My heart aches for everyone.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

The problem is crystal clear and I have accepted that. Right now, Harris has 60M votes, Clinton finished with 65M while the guy who blew a mic sits @ 71M. Harris will lose the popular vote to this , the only person to beat him was a MAN. We, the American people, suck.

If the D's want to win, we all need to accept the fact that this country has shown us, AGAIN, that WE will not elect anyone, other than a MAN, POTUS. Biden got 20M more votes than Harris.

 

[samiam5211]

The problem was that Harris couldn't defend the policies that got inflation down. It is down to about 2.1%, but Trump will take credit for it, because his idiot followers will believe he did it. Harris should've acknowledged that their policies contributed to inflation, but they were needed to prevent a recession, and in the long term got inflation down with a soft landing. Had Trump been in office, we would've landed hard, and probably would have had a recession. I predict a recession or possibly a depression coming if Trump implements his promises.

Bad part is that with Trump serving two individual terms means that he will probably be leaving office as the shot hits the fan, so the idiotic public will blame whoever we hand the pile of flaming dookie to in 2028.

He will never have to deal with own mess like most two term presidents.

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[DaveXA]

Because they wanted Trump. Full stop. Harris was a better candidate who said and promised better things than Trump. The people that chose Trump didn't care that Harris was better than Trump.

There's this myth that we buy into in our relationship with others that "if we just say and do the right thing, then other people will do what's right or what we want them to do." None of us can control other people. There were no magical words or actions that Harris could have used to make people who chose Trump over her to choose her.

Ever known someone with an addiction issue or who remaining in an abusive relationship? You can reason with them, show them reality of their situation and offer them all the support in the world, but you can't make them let you help them. There's no magical words you can say or actions you can take that will make them do something different. Whether or not they do something different is entirely their choice and there's nothing anyone can do about that other than some type of forced treatment.

Harris doesn't have an option of forcing anyone to vote a certain way. How they vote is each individual's choice and there is nothing magical that Harris or any other candidate can do or say that make people vote a certain way.

Also don't overlook the reality that anything Harris said or did differently that would have gotten some to vote for her instead of Trump could very well cause others who voted for her not to voter for her. Nothing and candidate does or says happens in a vacuum and it all has unintended effects. For instance, if Harris took a harder stance against Israel's atrocious treatment of Palestinians, then I have no doubt she would have lost a substantial amount of votes from people who are Jewish. If she had been less vocal about protecting the rights of LGBTQIA+, she might have gotten some votes she lost to Trump, but I have no doubt she would have also lost votes.

That's true for any issue. There's no different stance that Harris could have taken on any issue that would not have cost her some votes. The only person responsible for how they voted is the individual that voted. No one else is responsible for how a person votes or acts and the blame game is an unproductive waste of time. Assigning blame is only for emotional gratification, and it hinders the ability to be fully open minded and rationally considering all possible solutions.


You are putting all of the responsibility for the actions of others on the candidates and the party. The voters have all of the power over their vote and the only power over their vote. Were is their personal responsibility and accountability for their choices and their actions?

A lot of this post misses the mark with me. I don't buy that a lot of people wanted Trump as an excuse. It's ultimately still an excuse. Your reasoning sounds like the excuses a coach makes when a team is losing a lot and instead of taking responsibility for the team, he's blaming the other teams for beating them. That attitude doesn't resonate with me.

No one is being forced to vote a certain way, we all make choices, informed or not. And unfortunately people didn't make a good choice here. The fact of the matter is its clear Trump has more votes than Harris. Now we have to figure out how to turn this thing around. I don't know if it will happen soon. And unfortunately, a lot of people are rejecting the Democratic Party platform and the candidates they're running with.

It wasn't just Harris. The Democrats lost the Senate as well, and I haven't checked this morning, but possibly the House as well. These results have to push the Party to do some soul searching. Republicans aren't going to change because they don't really need to. They have all the momentum right now.

All that said, I'm definitely worried about the country and I have no idea what the next 4 years looks like, but the Democrats need to figure some thing out, and fast because the mid-terms are the only change to slow their charge down.

And I put the responsibility on everyone, not just the leaders but the voters as well. The Democrats don't have a choice, they either adapt or remain impotent. Ultimately, it's the head coach, the business owner, the community leader, and the political party leadership who determines the direction of the team or group they're leading. And the Democrats are hurting for a true leader. I was hoping that would be Harris, but here we are.

If you want to blame everyone else, that's a choice, but that will just make you a bitter, angry person, and I can't live like that.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Guess we have the 26 blue wave to look forward to

Also way early Speculating on 28

Whitmer? Newsom? Buttigieg? Shapiro? Wes Moore?

 

[DaveXA]

lol now we fighting about who we nominated…

90 million stupid donut lips voted for Donald
Trump.

This country is about to get what it deserves.

Well, if we don't do any self-reflection, then we'll be in the same place 4 years from not...possibly.

That said, it's also possible that people with realize they made a mistake in voting for Trump when they see the mess the Republicans make, and I have no doubt it will be a huge mess.

 

[samiam5211]

Well, if we don't do any self-reflection, then we'll be in the same place 4 years from not...possibly.

That said, it's also possible that people with realize they made a mistake in voting for Trump when they see the mess the Republicans make, and I have no doubt it will be a huge mess.

Democrats don’t have the stomach to do what is required to win the game.

We’ve got to start appealing the the scummiest of the scum on our side and make them want to go vote. The rest of the dems have to hold their nose and vote,

I think it’s going to take more losses for us to break through the denial.

 

[el caliente]

My man was on one.