General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (13 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[Lapaz]

Whether Trump narrowly wins or loses is irrelevant.

They have a superior model, and a model that is going to only get better. The idiot vote is the most influential bloc in the country and there isn't any doubt about it.

We have plenty of idiots on our side, but we are too good to cater to them. Instead, we think trying to change minds of people who disagree with us is a better use of our effort. "High five Liz Cheney. "Meanwhile, our bench is on Instagram and TikTok slowing changing teams, because they don't really care about any of this crap. Then the other side makes them start to care. If we don't make our idiots care, someone else will.

I don't like it.

Reality doesn't care if we like it, but it will kick the shirt out of us if we don't accept it.

Completely backing off Joe Biden calling them garbage was a mistake. She should have said "I'm sure that some of them are very fine people".

You may be right, but if the only way to win is by stooping to their level, then Democracy will fail. It will be a short term win, and a long term loss. It may be a loss anyway, but at least one path is more hopeful.

 

[Nebaghead]

I know there has been a lot of back and forth with the Biden comment which made it sound like he called Trump supporters garbage. I think everyone is on pins and needles with this election as there is a lot at stake. Polling has been all over the place and shows this is a tight race. I know a lot of people think the polls are wrong (I really hope they are) and that Harris will walk away with this election.

For the last month or so, I've been waking up at night and the thought of Trump winning puts me in a cold sweat. The racism, anti-semitism and homophobia rhetoric being spread by him and his supporters really scare me. He set back progress back dramatically in his first term and he almost had to hold back because he wanted to get re-elected. I can't imagine what he would try to push through this time and all the people that used to keep him in check are gone. He is being handled by some really unscrupulous people and I think if he wins, things will be worse.

So I was pretty pissed about the unforced error by Biden because it makes things harder. I think we can all agree this wasn't helpful, how it impacts the election that is debatable and we have quite a few pages in this thread debating it. It does bother me this happened and in my opinion it did detract from Harris having more momentum than if this didn't happen.

 

[efil4]

John Oliver did a segment this week on the Mass Deportation plan. He talks about the logistics and cost and how it would actually make housing more scarce and cost jobs. Normally his segments can be found on YouTube.

Here is an article about it.

John Oliver on Trump’s immigration plan: ‘Full of shit from a practical standpoint, as well as a moral one’

Last Week Tonight host digs into Trump campaign promise of mass deportation of 13 million undocumented people

www.theguardian.com

Its all to "activate" his base.

Ive been saying this since 2023, if he does NOTHING to widen his appeal to draw in independents and some fence-sitting Dems ( who werent happy w/ Biden then Harris ) he was going to face an uphill battle on re-election.

He ran in 2016.
He ran in 2020 ( as incumbent )

Do you recall at ANY time in either of those campaigns, where Trump sold "memorabilia" to his core supporters? Here is a list of what he has been hawking ( remove the hats/tees/sweatshirts- thats commonplace )

• "Make America Great Again" (MAGA) hats
• T-shirts
• Sweatshirts/Hoodies
• Trump socks
• Trump campaign flags
• Jewelry
• Mugs
• Signs & Banners
• Trump Coins
• Calendars
• Trump's authored books (including The Art of the Deal and Crippled America)
• Books endorsed by Trump (various political or conservative literature)
• Trump action figures/dolls (available from third-party retailers)
• Autographed photos (often part of fundraising packages)
• Commemorative medallions or plates
• Challenge coins
• Phone cases
• Laptop decals and stickers
• Trump-branded vitamins or supplements: These are not available through official channels and were associated with past ventures like the Trump Network
• Trump Wine
• Trump bottled water: No longer widely available; previously branded as "Trump Ice"
• Trump cologne ("Success by Trump")
• Trump 2024 merchandise
• Trump NFTs
• Trump watches
• Trump bibles
• Trump sneakers

I sensed, ( with massive caution ) that he was going to grift as much as he could in this last "hoorah" from his core. So his messaging would still be to "gin up his base" - not for votes, he had that. For sales.

So all this talk about mass deportation is just that- talk. Same reason why you havent heard a LICK about the HOW/LOGISTICS ( other than "rounding up/putting on plane" ) and COST to the American tax payer. Just like his Wall. Its all red meat to lather up his marks to then peddle his wares that they will buy up.

 

[efil4]

I know there has been a lot of back and forth with the Biden comment which made it sound like he called Trump supporters garbage. I think everyone is on pins and needles with this election as there is a lot at stake. Polling has been all over the place and shows this is a tight race. I know a lot of people think the polls are wrong (I really hope they are) and that Harris will walk away with this election.

For the last month or so, I've been waking up at night and the thought of Trump winning puts me in a cold sweat. The racism, anti-semitism and homophobia rhetoric being spread by him and his supporters really scare me. He set back progress back dramatically in his first term and he almost had to hold back because he wanted to get re-elected. I can't imagine what he would try to push through this time and all the people that used to keep him in check are gone. He is being handled by some really unscrupulous people and I think if he wins, things will be worse.

So I was pretty pissed about the unforced error by Biden because it makes things harder. I think we can all agree this wasn't helpful, how it impacts the election that is debatable and we have quite a few pages in this thread debating it. It does bother me this happened and in my opinion it did detract from Harris having more momentum than if this didn't happen.

And there was going to be SOMETHING that would replace that remark fairly quickly.

And then Trump donned an ORANGE safety vest, stumbled as he tried to climb into cab of garbage truck and THEN held his rally STILL wearing same safety vest.

Concluded his rally dancing to Village People in orange safety vest.

He cant help himself and his handlers cant control him. I didnt think it would happen within 24 hrs, but im glad it did.

FWIW, i was just as nervous as you seem to be about this election up until about 2-3 days ago. Im not saying we have this sewn up, but i have to believe that the majority will cast their vote for the right person here and that we will be rid of MAGA fever and Rs can begin their infighting to wrestle back control of their party ( which will be a spectacle unto itself i think )

 

[LA - L.A.]

It all depends on whether the polls are correct. If Pennsylvania is truly even, then wafflers will make the difference. It's wishcasting that the polls are wrong...

It's not wishcasting at all. It's just a matter of not listening to the media narrative about polls. It's foolish to trust the polls more than actual early voting data. The early voting data indicates that the polls are wrong just like they were in 2022.

...and that's not the way campaigns should operate.

Campaigns only rely on their own polling data which the general public never sees and their internal polling is not what they rely on the most.

Too many people are armchair campaign managers who don't know nearly as much about how campaigns actually work as they think they do. It's because they believe the news outlets narratives about how campaigns work. As someone once said, "you think you know, but you don't and you never will."

 

[Lapaz]

Harris will get right on it as soon as you send her the magical words she has to say to satisfy you and those other voters you're so worried about.

You're full of magical thinking, so I'll leave that to you. I have made it clear that all I think she needs to do is show empathy. She said she didn't agree, but didn't answer the question about how it made the Trump supporters feel. The problem isn't the Trump voters. The problem are the supporters or wafflers that might have sat out, but may now get angered enough to get off of the couch. That's why it matters.

 

[Lapaz]

You sure about that, boss? You seem awfully demanding that she's not doing enough as far as your concerned.


Are you in direct communication with these "wafflers?" How do you know what they need or want? Wait, are you one of them? Are you a "waffer?"


Nothing Harris can say will make this go away. You're detached from reality if you think Harris can make any story go away. That's not how any of it works.

It's best for Harris to wait until people have been polled for their reactions. That should only take a few more days, and the results should come in by November 6th. No need for her to try to clarify her stance, because no one cares about Biden. No one thinks he represents her. sarcasm/

 

[Lapaz]

I think that's a myth that is about to be proven false, once and for all. I have never believed that Trump has more than at most 35% of the country, not voters, who truly support him. I believe without a doubt that it's a myth and it's always been a myth.

Are you a professional pollster? You seem awfully confident that it's a myth.

 

[Bigdaddysaints]

how can any one person think him pretending to be a fast food woker and a garbage man think thats a complment to them. to me, those stunts are equivelant to him making fun of them. its shameful. that a billionaire pretends to do those things and people think he's complimenting him..
if the CEO of my company came in and pretended to drive a forklift for a picture, everyone on the floor would ridicule him behind his back...

 

[LA - L.A.]

You're full of magical thinking, so I'll leave that to you.

If you equate hard voting data with magical thinking, then sure, I'm full of magical thinking.

I have made it clear that all I think she needs to do is show empathy.

Harris has shown tons of empathy throughout her entire campaign. You have consistently made statements like, "Harris was good, but she should have been better." You are hypercritical of her and nothing she does or says is ever good enough for you. You always have a "but, she should have or "but she didn't" disclaimers any time you say something positive about her.

She said she didn't agree, but didn't answer the question about how it made the Trump supporters feel.

Case in point on the "but she didn't" attitude have toward Harris.

The problem are the supporters or wafflers...

The "wafflers" that you have not once shown any data actually exists? Talk about full of magical thinking.

...that might have sat out, but may now get angered enough to get off of the couch. That's why it matters.

That right there is wishcasting based on your constant narrative about Harris that you have not once even tried to support with data.

You have a closed mind when it comes to Harris. You believe what you believe based solely on it's what you believe. You have no information to support what you actually believe. No, media narratives are not information. They are just opinions.

 

[LA - L.A.]

It's best for Harris to wait until people have been polled for their reactions.

It's best for Harris to keep doing what she's doing, because it's been working very well for her. Fortunately, she's not following your advice or mine.

On the one hand, you say that Harris should base her campaign on polling data to justify and support your position. Then you turn around and say that Harris shouldn't wait for polling data to see how to handle
Biden's comment. So which is it, buddy?

You regularly end up contradicting yourself as you try to defend your opinions. That's illogical and should tell you that your line of thought is not rationally sound.

That should only take a few more days, and the results should come in by November 6th. No need for her to try to clarify her stance, because no one cares about Biden. No one thinks he represents her. sarcasm/

That's just some weak deflection. Just admit that you have nothing to support your belief that "wafflers" exist, you have no idea how many of them there are if they do exist, and you definitely don't have a clue as to what they think about Biden's remark if they do exist. Why can't you just admit that?

Everything you say about voters seem to be a projection of you.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Are you a professional pollster?

Professional pollsters who are considered the most unbiased and accurate are the ones who are saying that even the good pollsters are having trouble getting accurate and reliable samples which is why polling has been off in the last few election cycles.

Why do you know about the partisan junk polls that cook their numbers to intentionally skew the average of polls?

You seem awfully confident that it's a myth.

I didn't say they were a myth. I said they are not as reliable as actual early voting data, so it's foolish to trust polls over actual voting data at this point.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I understand the desire to deport illegal immigrants, but law enforcement should have discretion. Imagine all the damaging crimes that will have to be ignored, and worse yet, the crimes that will have to be committed in a dragnet for Trump to go after illegal immigrants that are otherwise law-abiding. There will be a spike in crimes since cops will be diverted, and citizens will be harassed and some get caught-up in the deportation. The anger and fear this will stoke will also lead to a network similar to the Underground Railroad. This is leading us back to another civil war.

Don't forget the legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and native citizens who will get caught up in the dragnet and the outrage, backlash and chaos that will cause

"Brown, Hispanic sounding name, accent? Papers, please"

 

[Optimus Prime]

Before Election Day has even arrived, the “Stop the Steal” movement has reemerged in force, with some of the same activists who tried to overturn former President Donald Trump’s 2020 loss outlining a step-by-step guide to undermine the results if he falls short again.

For months, those activists – who have been priming Trump supporters to believe the only way the former president can lose in 2024 is through fraud – have laid out proposals to thwart a potential Kamala Harris victory. Their plans include challenging results in court, pressuring lawmakers to block election certification, and encouraging protests – culminating on January 6, 2025, the day Congress will once again certify the results.

“I have a plan and strategy,” Ivan Raiklin, a former Green Beret and political operative who has close ties to associates of Trump, told a group of Pennsylvania activists earlier this month. “And then January 6th is going to be pretty fun.”

Trump’s allies – and the former president himself – are increasingly pushing debunked claims of voter fraud, spreading their rhetoric through podcasts with massive audiences, megachurch sermons and political rallies in key states. Some Trump backers, including pastors associated with Christian nationalist ideas, have described the election as a fight between good and evil, describing Harris as the antichrist or suggesting that God has anointed Trump as the victor.

Four years ago, Trump’s unsuccessful efforts to overturn his loss to President Joe Biden didn’t truly materialize until after the election. They were largely improvised and ad hoc, with a flurry of hastily filed lawsuits that went nowhere and efforts to convince state legislators to block certification that fell short.

But this time around, MAGA activists have been planning to undermine a potential Harris victory well in advance of the election, with some even arguing that state legislators should simply ignore the election results and award electoral votes to Trump by default.

Congress passed a measure in 2022 that makes it harder to overturn a certified presidential election, and with Trump now out of office, he and his allies cannot wield levers of the executive branch to try to influence the election. But experts say that the people involved in these conspiracy theory-driven efforts appear to be better organized, more determined and, in some cases, more extreme than four years ago..............

‘January 6th is going to be pretty fun’: How MAGA activists are preparing to undermine the election if Trump loses | CNN Politics

Before Election Day has even arrived, the “Stop the Steal” movement has reemerged in force, with some of the same activists who tried to overturn former President Donald Trump’s 2020 loss outlining a step-by-step guide to undermine the results if he falls short again.

www.cnn.com

 

[efil4]

Not sure if here is right place- but asked about HOW will you cut $2 TRILLION?

Answer : " we can"

This is precisely the "dumbing down for layman" i was talking about yesterday. The narrative NOW is there is $2 trillion we can cut because of "waste, fraud and abuse" - but not ONE MENTION of a SINGLE "waste, fraud or abuse" policy expenditure that would back up the assertion.

Meanwhile, Musk, who would be tapped to take on this cutting, just yesterday said Americans will have to endure "temporary hardships"

Its insanity.

 

[bird]

Almost seems like some people are looking for any reason not to vote for her, and simultaneously ignoring the mountain of reasons against Trump

Primary among those reasons? She is a woman. This country’s obsession with sex and so-called masculinity borders on psychotic.

 

[bird]

Not sure if here is right place- but asked about HOW will you cut $2 TRILLION?

Answer : " we can"

This is precisely the "dumbing down for layman" i was talking about yesterday. The narrative NOW is there is $2 trillion we can cut because of "waste, fraud and abuse" - but not ONE MENTION of a SINGLE "waste, fraud or abuse" policy expenditure that would back up the assertion.

Meanwhile, Musk, who would be tapped to take on this cutting, just yesterday said Americans will have to endure "temporary hardships"

Its insanity.

Oh, so the Republican congresscritter “assured” the talking head that there was 2Trillion in “waste, fraud and abuse”. Well, I feel much better now. Howzabout we start with cutting funds to his district?

 

[Nebaghead]

Oh, so the Republican congresscritter “assured” the talking head that there was 2Trillion in “waste, fraud and abuse”. Well, I feel much better now. Howzabout we start with cutting funds to his district?

Yeah when they cut 2t and the largest employer in the US (the gubament) has to fire huge percentages of their work force, how will that impact the economy.