General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump (3 Viewers)

[SamAndreas]

Today it begins, Kamala has reached the point that she's the Democratic Party nominee:

There's video from today. this link has video from her first public appearance since Biden endorsed her:

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/22/live-updates-harris-democrats-biden-drops-out-trump-campaign.html

She spent yesterday on the telephone for most of the day. I read that yesterday that she called the party leaders in all 50 states. That would take me three days.

She's renamed her YouTube channel, that's the where to go for video: https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris

This is her video on her channel from two hours ago:



To play it, start it, and then move it up to 5:47. This was one of those live videos which don't start at zero.

I've named this thread General Election 2024 Harris vs Trump

Trump needs an introduction post as well, a MAGA suporter ought to write it: @Farb, @SaintForLife , @Others, calling for someone to please introduce your GOP candidate for this 2024 general election thread.

 

[MT15]

Those aren’t on the level of Hitler. I agree that Trump is dangerous, and could become Hitler, but there are few people in History that have been that abominable. I just think the comparison is too extreme. I heard Scott Jennings saying Democrats are ridiculous for comparing Trump to Hitler, and like it or not, a lot of people will agree. It diminishes the value of the criticism. It’s better to ask why does he admire those tyrants. Let people come to their own conclusion.

She says it better than I do:

 

[MT15]

It is a cautionary tale, but he isn’t and may never become Hitler.

Want to know how he never becomes Hitler? If he doesn’t get the chance. That’s the only surefire way, otherwise you’re just rolling the dice - “he may never become Hitler”. What are we even doing here?

I mean, sure he echoes Hitler’s speeches, he advocates for fascist policies, but hey, he might not be a Hitler, so we better just be quiet?

Sorry - I know you aren’t saying to be quiet but Scott Jennings is. It’s stupid to listen to Scott Jennings over this, hell, he’s probably voting for Trump.

 

[superchuck500]

 

[superchuck500]

Those aren’t on the level of Hitler. I agree that Trump is dangerous, and could become Hitler, but there are few people in History that have been that abominable. I just think the comparison is too extreme. I heard Scott Jennings saying Democrats are ridiculous for comparing Trump to Hitler, and like it or not, a lot of people will agree. It diminishes the value of the criticism. It’s better to ask why does he admire those tyrants. Let people come to their own conclusion.

Trump is unquestionably speaking like a fascist authoritarian - he does it all the time and I think that people who disagree either (1) don’t know any better anyway - they don’t actually know what it means, or (2) they don’t think Trump means the things he says.

I used this illustration the other day, but just for an ordinary example, when Trump said he would get rid of the Department of Education, that’s an idea that has been percolating in conservative circles since the Tea Party. But conservatives want to get rid of it because schools are under the prerogative of the states and they think the Dept of Ed is an expensive federal bureaucracy that we don’t need.

But that’s not what Trump said. Trump said he would get rid of the Department of Education because he thinks that the job of “giving the [federal money] to the states can be done by one person” and he’s going to make sure that the states that get the money follow his commands about curriculum and social policies - “or they don’t get the money.” This isn’t a conservative idea, it is a fascist authoritarian vision for the Department of Education.

He regularly says that media companies should lose their broadcasting license when they “aren’t fair” to him (ie are critical of him). He says that people shouldn’t be able to criticize the Supreme Court and that he should be able to control the Federal Reserve.

But most importantly consider what ‘mass deportation’ is - it’s the keystone of Trump’s immigration policy and it calls for a massive federal mobilization (including deputizing local law enforcement) to round up and deport immigrants of varying status including those in “pending” status and even some in legal asylum status.

There are between 8 million and 11 million people that meet Trump’s mass deportation criteria. They are families - they have homes, some of which may include mixtures of citizens, legal immigrants, and deportation targets. These newly mobilized and deputized enforcement agents aren’t to have “illegal immigrant” detectors. It’s going to be ugly. And then these millions of immigrants are going to be transported in various ways to deportation centers where they will be processed, detained, and then at some point (maybe) sent to a country they may or may not even remember.

Do you realize that apart from the death camps at the end, it’s shockingly similar to the Final Solution? There were approx 8 million Jews in Europe in 1930. Many escaped but millions saw Reich and local officers raid houses, break up families, round up Jews for deportation where they were then transported, processed, and detained pending disposition. It’s the same up to that point.

Trump says these things so regularly that they can’t be doubted that they are what he means to say. So the question is, are these things not fascist? Or does he not really mean them so they can be discounted as trivial? Maybe he doesn’t - but it should also be noted that the German ruling class didn’t think Hitler meant it either.

Even if we’d like to have faith in our governments structural protections against authoritarianism, the fact remains that Trump is a unique figure in US politics - he’s the only president in history who tried to resist transfer of power by attempting a coup - based on a fraudulent illegal electors scheme and fomenting a violent attack on the congressional certification session. It’s real - we all lived it. I think “he doesn’t really mean it” is a big ask. And these ideas are clearly fascist. So is it really inaccurate or otherwise dismissible to call it that?

 

[Lapaz]

I’ve been disappointed in most of Harris’ responses in the CNN town hall. She was given multiple layups that she should’ve taken.

Immigration:
She should’ve admitted that the administration should’ve acted sooner on the border, but she wants to solve the problem, not just demonize and block solutions like Trump. She did the latter, but she loses credibility by not admitting that Biden was slow to act.

Inflation:
When she was asked about affordability, she should’ve acknowledged that inflation hurt people, but it took time to grapple with the economic problems, however the entire world had trouble, and America did better than all other western nations. Also, inflation is down to nearly 2%, and wages have been exceeding inflation for over a year, so if that trend continues, things will be more affordable. Her answers dealt with price gouging after emergencies and the housing subsidy. Those don’t deal with the majority of people.

Israel:
When asked how she would prevent another Palestinian death and for US dollars not to be used, she should’ve said she can’t promise that. She should’ve said she would continue to try to persuade Israel to find ways to prevent more civilians deaths.

What she would do different:
Not a clear answer other than she has a different background. I assume that implies empathy, but I don’t understand how she differs from Biden in the empathy department.

Genuiness:
One of the questions was about her genuineness because of her changing positions, and her answer was unconvincing. She doesn’t come across genuine. Embedded within her answer was listening to others and being bi-partisan, but she should’ve said she has adjusted her positions. She misled on fracking. She should just admit that fracking is good for the economy, but we will reduce our carbon dioxide emissions on balance under her plans.

She ended with a good answer about her proud political moment. She had a good answer about some services she setup as attorney general and some other values. It’s frustrating, because I think she could’ve done far better.

 

[Lapaz]

Trump is unquestionably speaking like a fascist authoritarian - he does it all the time and I think that people who disagree either (1) don’t know any better anyway - they don’t actually know what it means, or (2) they don’t think Trump means the things he says.

I used this illustration the other day, but just for an ordinary example, when Trump said he would get rid of the Department of Education, that’s an idea that has been percolating in conservative circles since the Tea Party. But conservatives want to get rid of it because schools are under the prerogative of the states and they think the Dept of Ed is an expensive federal bureaucracy that we don’t need.

But that’s not what Trump said. Trump said he would get rid of the Department of Education because he thinks that the job of “giving the [federal money] to the states can be done by one person” and he’s going to make sure that the states that get the money follow his commands about curriculum and social policies - “or they don’t get the money.” This isn’t a conservative idea, it is a fascist authoritarian vision for the Department of Education.

He regularly says that media companies should lose their broadcasting license when they “aren’t fair” to him (ie are critical of him). He says that people shouldn’t be able to criticize the Supreme Court and that he should be able to control the Federal Reserve.

But most importantly consider what ‘mass deportation’ is - it’s the keystone of Trump’s immigration policy and it calls for a massive federal mobilization (including deputizing local law enforcement) to round up and deport immigrants of varying status including those in “pending” status and even some in legal asylum status.

There are between 8 million and 11 million people that meet Trump’s mass deportation criteria. They are families - they have homes, some of which may include mixtures of citizens, legal immigrants, and deportation targets. These newly mobilized and deputized enforcement agents aren’t to have “illegal immigrant” detectors. It’s going to be ugly. And then these millions of immigrants are going to be transported in various ways to deportation centers where they will be processed, detained, and then at some point (maybe) sent to a country they may or may not even remember.

Do you realize that apart from the death camps at the end, it’s shockingly similar to the Final Solution? There were approx 8 million Jews in Europe in 1930. Many escaped but millions saw Reich and local officers raid houses, break up families, round up Jews for deportation where they were then transported, processed, and detained pending disposition. It’s the same up to that point.

Trump says these things so regularly that they can’t be doubted that they are what he means to say. So the question is, are these things not fascist? Or does he not really mean them so they can be discounted as trivial? Maybe he doesn’t - but it should also be noted that the German ruling class didn’t think Hitler meant it either.

Even if we’d like to have faith in our governments structural protections against authoritarianism, the fact remains that Trump is a unique figure in US politics - he’s the only president in history who tried to resist transfer of power by attempting a coup - based on a fraudulent illegal electors scheme and fomenting a violent attack on the congressional certification session. It’s real - we all lived it. I think “he doesn’t really mean it” is a big ask. And these ideas are clearly fascist. So is it really inaccurate or otherwise dismissible to call it that?

I agree with everything you said, but I think it is still too extreme to call him Hitler. He is definitely a fascist. He is dangerous and might go as far as Hitler, but I’m not convinced. I think he is more like Victor Orban or Putin, which is awful, but not Hitler. I actually think he’s a worse person than either of them, but I also don’t think anyone would go as far as Hitler.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I’ve been disappointed in most of Harris’ responses in the CNN town hall. She was given multiple layups that she should’ve taken.

Immigration:
She should’ve admitted that the administration should’ve acted sooner on the border, but she wants to solve the problem, not just demonize and block solutions like Trump. She did the latter, but she loses credibility by not admitting that Biden was slow to act.

Inflation:
When she was asked about affordability, she should’ve acknowledged that inflation hurt people, but it took time to grapple with the economic problems, however the entire world had trouble, and America did better than all other western nations. Also, inflation is down to nearly 2%, and wages have been exceeding inflation for over a year, so if that trend continues, things will be more affordable. Her answers dealt with price gouging after emergencies and the housing subsidy. Those don’t deal with the majority of people.

Israel:
When asked how she would prevent another Palestinian death and for US dollars not to be used, she should’ve said she can’t promise that. She should’ve said she would continue to try to persuade Israel to find ways to prevent more civilians deaths.

What she would do different:
Not a clear answer other than she has a different background. I assume that implies empathy, but I don’t understand how she differs from Biden in the empathy department.

Genuiness:
One of the questions was about her genuineness because of her changing positions, and her answer was unconvincing. She doesn’t come across genuine. Embedded within her answer was listening to others and being bi-partisan, but she should’ve said she has adjusted her positions. She misled on fracking. She should just admit that fracking is good for the economy, but we will reduce our carbon dioxide emissions on balance under her plans.

She ended with a good answer about her proud political moment. She had a good answer about some services she setup as attorney general and some other values. It’s frustrating, because I think she could’ve done far better.

So, the TLDR version of this is that you were disappointed in her performance because she wasn't perfect!

 

[LA - L.A.]

They are. But yields aren't rising thru demand. They do make bonds more attractive to purchase vs other investments ( and less exposure to ups and downs ).

But yields are related to economic factors and outlooks.

How would expecting inflation cause them to rise in value if it's not demand related?

 

[LA - L.A.]

Veteran pollster Nate Silver said his “gut” right now is that former President Trump will win the election in less than two weeks, but he cautioned against putting faith in anyone’s gut feeling.

Silver wrote in a guest essay published Wednesday by The New York Times that calling the race a 50-50 toss-up is the “only responsible forecast,” with polls showing the race as razor-tight in all seven key battleground states that are likely to determine the outcome. But, the 538 founder added, if people press him to give an answer on who is favored, he will say Trump.

“My gut says Donald Trump. And my guess is that it is true for many anxious Democrats,” Silver said. “But I don’t think you should put any value whatsoever on anyone’s gut — including mine.”

“Instead, you should resign yourself to the fact that a 50-50 forecast really does mean 50-50,” he continued. “And you should be open to the possibility that those forecasts are wrong, and that could be the case equally in the direction of Mr. Trump or Ms. Harris.”..........

Nate Silver: ‘My gut says’ Trump will win

Veteran pollster Nate Silver said his “gut” right now is that former President Trump will win the election in less than two weeks, but he cautioned against putting faith in anyone’s gut feeling.&nb…

thehill.com

"My gut tells me." How mathematical and scientific of him. If anyone didn't already see that Silver is a partisan hack, then they don't have any excuses not to see it now.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Democratic leaning voters have acted out for other reasons, but not for election results, so why would you say “be it Harris or Trump”? I think Republicans have been talking about violence again, and I may have missed it, but I haven’t heard any such discussions from Democrats recently. I think plenty will be angry and outraged, but I don’t think it’s justified to say that there will be some violent protesters regardless of the outcome. I think it is only likely if Trump loses.

I think you're greatly over simplifying and underestimating how understandably afraid for their well being people are of Trump winning. Thousands of people on both sides of the equation believe to their core that losing this election is an threat to their existence. That is the greatest of all fears.

I think you're greatly underestimating how rapidly the violent rhetoric of vengeance against all who don't bow to Trump and Republicans would escalate if Trump wins. I think you're making the mistake of thinking that potential violent protesters are all going to shoot their mouths off in public. Deadly serious people know to keep their mouths shut and prepare. There are people who are willing and preparing to wage a rebellion against a Trump presidency the second the fascists start implementing their plans. You need to take a longer view of human history, not just American, to see what's potentially two weeks away.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Big rumor on Twitter. MAGA started out the day warning about a coming “deep fake” about Trump that is supposedly totally AI. Nobody else seemed to know anything about it.

This evening, rumor is that there exists a video of Trump groping a teenaged girl who happens to be the daughter of one of his donors, at a donor event.

Does that even move the needle? I say no - MAGA won’t believe it’s real, and there will be enough controversy that everyone else will be unsure.

If Trump is in middle staged dementia, he's going to do a lot of groping and psychotropics is the normal course of action to get it under control. He does seem to be under the influence of psychotropics lately. The low energy and emotionless, monotone speaking is consistent with psychotropics to curb agitation and inappropriate sexual behavior for people in early to mid stage dementia.

 

[LA - L.A.]

While trump parades out Hulk Hogan to feed his followers red meat, Mick Foley "Cactus Jack/Mankind" delivers a eloquent history lesson to America and an endorsement of Harris.

Mick's right about "the enemy from within" coming from Joseph McCarthy. Joseph McCarthy's chief counsel during his witch hunt for "communists" that destroyed lots of innocent people's lives was Roy Cohn. Roy Cohn was a mentor to Trump and the most influential person in Trump's life. None of this shirt is a coincidence people and it's not just forking rhetoric. Trump means every threat he makes. The only things Trump never sincerely means is his promises to help and protect people, he's lying his forking arse of when he says shirt like that.

This is why there will be a violent resistence if Trump wins. Trump is not just a threat to our democracy, he's a threat to our very existence, even to those who bow down to him under the gravely mistaken belief it will keep them safe.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Here's better clip of their idiocy:

That was not a focus group. That was MSNBC and Wagner are just giving equal time to everyone to maximize their viewership to maximize their income. They are not in the business of providing a public service, they are in the business of serving their own interests. Don't be fooled by the facade of providing valuable insight and information.

 

[LA - L.A.]

New story just dropped about a young woman who was groped by Trump in 1993 in the presence of Epstein. Epstein brought her to Trump’s place, and Trump immediately started groping her. She has a postcard Trump sent to her later inviting her to come back any time she wanted. Epstein dropped her after that and she never saw Trump again. She decided in 2016 not to come forward to avoid the negative attention. Not sure why she decided to come forward now.

If this is the big story, it won’t move the needle at all, I’m afraid. Everybody already knows he does this stuff. He described it himself in 2016 as his “go-to” move. It should be disqualifying but MAGA doesn’t care.

There is no longer any meaningful distinction between MAGA Republican and Republican. Trump can't win with just Republican voters and he can't win without over 90% of them. He'll lose with just Republicans and get blown out if he loses a chunk of Republican voters.

If the story is credible, it would absolutely cause some Republicans and "independents" to either not vote or vote for Harris. It would have an impact on the outcome of the election. An adult woman maybe not, but an underage girl is a whole different ball of wax for most people, including Republicans and "independents."

 

[LA - L.A.]

I just saw the Harris commercial with the couple that miscarried and it showed the effects of the infection and everything. Seeing that man cry at what he and his wife lost makes me want to fly to D.C. and repeatedly throat punch a bunch of mutha forkers in black robes.

Makes me want to body switch all of them with women going through this at the height of the medical crisis, and then groundhog daying them in it for eternity.

 

[LA - L.A.]

The problem with calling him Hitler is that he hasn’t committed atrocities...

I think that's very much a you problem. Know who else didn't commit the atrocities that Hitler did? Hitler before he committed his atrocities. Trump is making all the same promises that Hitler did before he committed his atrocities. In my worthless opinion, it's idiotic to think we have to wait until Trump makes good on the same promises Hitler made good on before it's okay to point out that Trump is as dangerous as Hitler.

Kelly was in the room with Trump. Kelly says Trump is as dangerous as Hitler. Several other people in the room with Trump have said the same thing. How much time have you spent in a room with Trump?

 

[LA - L.A.]

Those aren’t on the level of Hitler.

Trumps promises of what he will do mirror Hitler almost verbatim, because as you acknowleged Trump has public stated his admiration for Hitler.

People in the room with Trump has said he tried to do things that was stopped by others. They also say he's as dangerous as Hitler.

The generals who were in the room have study the history of Nazi Germany and Hitler extensively. Many of them are saying he's as dangerous as Hitler. I'm going to take their word and value their opinion over yours.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Those things are horrible but not comparable to exterminating 6 million people.

Trump has plans to mass incarcerate over 10 million people. He will not be able to deport those people anywhere. Millions of them will die and that's part of the plan.

Hitler and the Nazi's never once said "we are going to exterminate 6 million people." They said we are going to round up all of these people poisoning our blood, murdering and raping us, and destroying our country. The exact same thing Trump is saying.

You need to read up on the rise of Nazi Germany, not the aftermath. You're perspective on this is arse backwards. You're comparing Hitlers end to Trump's beginning. Trump's beginning is exactly the same as Hitler's. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Jews in a particular will be turned off by that comparison.

Says you, but not a single one of my friends who are Jewish. They all compare Trump to Hitler and are terrified of him becoming president. You think you know what everyone thinks or will think, even people you don't even know. Show me multiple Jewish people claiming they are turned off by the comparisons of Trump to Hitler.

I understand why people are comparing him to Hitler,...

You don't really seem to.

...but then they need to educate people on how Hitler wasn’t that abominable when he first got elected.

Hitler was absolutely abominable when he was first elected. He got elected by promising to do everything he and the Nazi's did. Trump is promising the exact same things substituting immigrants for Jews. Educate yourself.