General Election 2024 Biden vs Trump (2 Viewers)

[SteveSBrickNJ]

As we head toward the summer and the National Party Conventions, it might be handy to have a thread focused on the upcoming matchup of current President Biden vs Former President Trump.
As of April 28,2024 , CNN's poll shows Trump leading. Yet polls are not always accurate and they are constantly changing.
Feel free to use this thread for all things relating to Biden vs Trump.
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CNN Poll: Trump maintains lead over Biden in 2024 matchup as views on their presidencies diverge

Donald Trump continues to hold an advantage over President Joe Biden as the campaign – and Trump’s criminal trial – move forward, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS. And in the coming rematch, opinions about the first term of each man vying for a second four years in the White House...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Taurus]

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. I don't care if anyone agrees with me and you ought to know that about me by now (or so I thought). But the fact that folks here and elsewhere now want to attack the media for their reporting, and attack the numbers, and anything else that appears to support Biden stepping down, yeah, that's Trumpish. No one is saying anything about Trump right now because he's sitting back happy to the tee watching all of this happen for the world to see.

The reason I attack the media is exactly that. Trump *still* can't pull together a coherent speech. Everything out of his mouth during the debate was a lie. Some of them just comically insane yet The Media isn't saying diddly about it.

 

[Taurus]

Take a look at your own words "Before the frenzy of Biden's fitness... ".
You used the word "frenzy." I saw that and grinned. That would perhaps suggest you might have already resolved this deep down inside of your own mind.

If deep down you thought this issue had merit wouldn't you have used the word "issue" instead of "frenzy" to describe it?



All I need to do now to persuade you to my position, is to give you space and time. Happy space and time Lapaz.

In regards to fitness.

Has Biden taken any observable fact (like, say a deadly pandemic) and pretended it doesn't exist?
"It's a hoax!"

Has he retreated into delusional, magical thinking regarding an emergent issue? Has he said, for instance "The Israelis and Palestinians will make peace by April! You'll see. Like magic!"

What we aren't hearing nearly enough about is how utterly, abjectly Trump failed America during his first tenure. How he proved beyond any doubt that he. Is. Not. Fit.

 

[MT15]

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. I don't care if anyone agrees with me and you ought to know that about me by now (or so I thought). But the fact that folks here and elsewhere now want to attack the media for their reporting, and attack the numbers, and anything else that appears to support Biden stepping down, yeah, that's Trumpish. No one is saying anything about Trump right now because he's sitting back happy to the tee watching all of this happen for the world to see.

Yeah, I’m dead set against removing Biden from the ticket at this point unless there is some sort of actual calamity. It just hands the election to Trump, IMO. I’ve seen enough of Biden since the debate to realize he’s the same as he was six months ago. He’s still infinitely better than Trump. Replacing him at this point in the cycle has never been successfully done, it discards millions upon millions of votes, and presents horrible legal challenges in various states.

Saying what I believe, and pointing out that the media is harping on this story isn’t Trumpish and I take offense at that statement.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Yeah, I’m dead set against removing Biden from the ticket at this point unless there is some sort of actual calamity. It just hands the election to Trump, IMO. I’ve seen enough of Biden since the debate to realize he’s the same as he was six months ago. He’s still infinitely better than Trump. Replacing him at this point in the cycle has never been successfully done, it discards millions upon millions of votes, and presents horrible legal challenges in various states.

Saying what I believe, and pointing out that the media is harping on this story isn’t Trumpish and I take offense at that statement.

Well I'm sorry you take offense, but as you stated, it is what I feel is going on.

 

[SamAndreas]

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. I don't care if anyone agrees with me and you ought to know that about me by now (or so I thought). But the fact that folks here and elsewhere now want to attack the media for their reporting, and attack the numbers, and anything else that appears to support Biden stepping down, yeah, that's Trumpish. No one is saying anything about Trump right now because he's sitting back happy to the tee watching all of this happen for the world to see.

No, it's you and others who are being "Trumpish" by engaging in this pressure campaign to subvert valid election results. .

Biden has said he's not stepping down, yet you continue.

Why do you continue inlight of it being brought up that you do appear to be trying to subvert a valid election?

The same stunt MAGA pulled.

Tell me why should I not be dismayed, pissed off perhaps that you, and those other are trying to servert the results of an election I voted in?

I've asked you to stop trying to subvert this primary election after the votes have been counted. It's personal, you're messing directly with my franchise to vote. I'll ask you again please stop. Don't be like MAGA.

Think about it, how dare you?

I'm pissed off about it the same way I was pissed off when MAGA tried to pull that stunt back on January 6th 2021.

Today I told Adam Schiff that if it turned out that I'm unable to find Bidens name on my California Ballot, that I would not be able to find his name on that same ballot.



Anyway beating a dead horse, Biden stays, completes his term, is the party camadate in the upcoming election. Facts matter.

 

[J-DONK]

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. I don't care if anyone agrees with me and you ought to know that about me by now (or so I thought). But the fact that folks here and elsewhere now want to attack the media for their reporting, and attack the numbers, and anything else that appears to support Biden stepping down, yeah, that's Trumpish. No one is saying anything about Trump right now because he's sitting back happy to the tee watching all of this happen for the world to see.

Trump is quietly playing golf until the RNC. I would put really good money on Trump didn't originally plan on announcing his VP at the RNC, but that's the plan now.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

No, it's you and others who are being "Trumpish" by engaging in this pressure campaign to subvert valid election results. .

Biden has said he's not stepping down, yet you continue.

Why do you continue inlight of it being brought up that you do appear to be trying to subvert a valid election?

The same stunt MAGA pulled.

You see what you want to see. Keep your blinders on for all I care.

While saying that I wanted Biden to step down, I've also said MULTIPLE TIMES that I was voting for him if he didn't. But you keep your blinders on.

No one, not one, in other words ZERO Democrat that has asked Biden to step aside have said they weren't voting for Biden. They've all said the same thing that I've said MULTIPLE TIMES.

No one is subverting anything because Biden isn't being forced to do anything. And as valid as the primary is, it means nothing when it is the incumbent and bunch of nobodies. BTW, I voted for Biden in the primary as well. I wonder what the numbers would look like if folks were allowed to change their minds. But guess what, nothing is being taken away because Biden is being asked to step away.

But you do you and keep your blinders on. But don't take them off if Trump is elected in November. You keep them on.

I guess we're going to start labeling folks DINOs next.

 

[MT15]

You see what you want to see. Keep your blinders on for all I care.

While saying that I wanted Biden to step down, I've also said MULTIPLE TIMES that I was voting for him if he didn't. But you keep your blinders on.

No one, not one, in other words ZERO Democrat that has asked Biden to step aside have said they weren't voting for Biden. They've all said the same thing that I've said MULTIPLE TIMES.

No one is subverting anything because Biden isn't being forced to do anything. And as valid as the primary is, it means nothing when it is the incumbent and bunch of nobodies. BTW, I voted for Biden in the primary as well. I wonder what the numbers would look like if folks were allowed to change their minds. But guess what, nothing is being taken away because Biden is being asked to step away.

But you do you and keep your blinders on. But don't take them off if Trump is elected in November. You keep them on.

I guess we're going to start labeling folks DINOs next.

I know you will vote for Biden. I think everyone is on edge here because the stakes are so high. My reasoning has evolved since the debate. Biden is out in public every day. He’s the same as he was before the debate, IMO. I don’t think any of us can know for sure how he really is behind closed doors. Ultimately his Cabinet and/or Congressional D leaders can privately make the case to him if they think it’s obvious that he should step aside.

But, at some point public calls for him to step down achieve nothing but helping the GOP. And the press coverage has been questionable in some documented cases. It just has. We need to be able to criticize the press when they go off the rails, just as much as the press needs to be able to criticize the president.

I personally think this will all wash out in the end.

 

[Incumbent]

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. I don't care if anyone agrees with me and you ought to know that about me by now (or so I thought). But the fact that folks here and elsewhere now want to attack the media for their reporting, and attack the numbers, and anything else that appears to support Biden stepping down, yeah, that's Trumpish. No one is saying anything about Trump right now because he's sitting back happy to the tee watching all of this happen for the world to see.

I think it was the midterm elections in 2014 that polling really started coming under fire. And a lot of people on the left have railed against corporate media for years.

 

[Incumbent]

Yeah, I’m dead set against removing Biden from the ticket at this point unless there is some sort of actual calamity. It just hands the election to Trump, IMO. I’ve seen enough of Biden since the debate to realize he’s the same as he was six months ago. He’s still infinitely better than Trump. Replacing him at this point in the cycle has never been successfully done, it discards millions upon millions of votes, and presents horrible legal challenges in various states.

Saying what I believe, and pointing out that the media is harping on this story isn’t Trumpish and I take offense at that statement.

I’m a little more open to it than you and I still think it’s an enormous risk, and that isn’t to discount the challenges that Biden is facing.

Part of the problem, I think, is people are looking at this in isolation. Yes, Biden had a bad debate and the opposition has ammunition to go after him. Replace him, and the target of attacks will just shift with the next candidate. We don’t know how the hypothetical replacement will poll once that starts happening.

It might be possible to run a winning campaign in four months but I can’t think of a relevant example that gives me hope.

I think the best strategy might be to elevate Harris’ profile and work to establish confidence with her as part of the administration.

If Biden does end up getting replaced, I think it’s a very short list of people with any real hope of winning, and consideration has to start with Harris. Bypassing her will almost certainly be a disaster for the party. Anybody without a strong national profile should be out of consideration. There isn’t time to build familiarity and comfort.

 

[MT15]

But, at some point public calls for him to step down achieve nothing but helping the GOP.

Exhibit A: even though this is clearly false, this statement will not be labeled as false by anyone. It’s just more fuel for the propaganda fire.

 

[Lapaz]

Take a look at your own words "Before the frenzy of Biden's fitness... ".
You used the word "frenzy." I saw that and grinned. That would perhaps suggest you might have already resolved this deep down inside of your own mind.

If deep down you thought this issue had merit wouldn't you have used the word "issue" instead of "frenzy" to describe it?



All I need to do now to persuade you to my position, is to give you space and time. Happy space and time Lapaz.

I understand it is a frenzy, but I think the issue is legitimate. Biden was losing in the polls before the debate, and it has gotten worse. He isn’t doing anything to reverse the trend. It is a bad trend. Maybe, just maybe the pills are wrong. Maybe he is actually winning, but that seems like a fantasy. I expected this since the early primaries. I saw the signs and thought Democrats needed another candidate. I don’t relish that, because I’m very fond of Biden, but I’m practical. I want to win, and want the candidate that gives us the best chances. That’s not Biden.

 

[UriUT]

 

[MT15]

He isn’t doing anything to reverse the trend.

The trend in the polls for Biden is up, not down. Each poll is of limited significance, but at least get the trend correctly identified. He took a dip immediately after the debate in the few polls which came out, but has pulled even with Trump again in the average of polls.

He has pulled ahead in 2 swing states, MI and WI, if I am remembering correctly. All swing states are in the margin of error, BTW, this is the same as before the debate.

If you are seeing differently, I’d be interested to see it.

 

[J-DONK]

The trend in the polls for Biden is up, not down. Each poll is of limited significance, but at least get the trend correctly identified. He took a dip immediately after the debate in the few polls which came out, but has pulled even with Trump again in the average of polls.

He has pulled ahead in 2 swing states, MI and WI, if I am remembering correctly. All swing states are in the margin of error, BTW, this is the same as before the debate.

If you are seeing differently, I’d be interested to see it.

You are citing Bloomberg polling which is not highly rated.

Emerson came out with polling today showing Biden down in every single background state.

Dig though every background state, and you will see that Bloomberg is an anomaly.

Latest Polls 2024 | RealClearPolling

Stay up to date on all the latest 2024 election and state of the union polls. Gain valuable insights into the evolving political landscape and stay ahead of the latest trends.

www.realclearpolling.com

 

[MT15]

You are citing Bloomberg polling which is not highly rated.

Emerson came out with polling today showing Biden down in every single background state.

Dig though every background state, and you will see that Bloomberg is an anomaly.

Latest Polls 2024 | RealClearPolling

Stay up to date on all the latest 2024 election and state of the union polls. Gain valuable insights into the evolving political landscape and stay ahead of the latest trends.

www.realclearpolling.com

I wonder about the use of registered voters rather than likely voters, the vast majority used RV. I follow several pollsters on Twitter and they don’t much care for the polls that are coming out after reviewing the crosstabs.

As I understand it, and I could be wrong, polls all use factors to “correct” for sampling errors. I think this is due to the fact that they can no longer compose a reliable demographic sample, since land lines are gone and people are unlikely to answer a call from an unknown number. I think I posted a Twitter thread or 2 in the polling thread about this practice.

I also read just the other day that polling is now subject to what they call “herding” meaning that once a poll comes out, subsequent pollers will use the factors to adjust their results to more closely match already public polls because nobody wants to be the “outlier” poll. This was on an academic website that studies polling. I know, exciting reading, huh?

Anyway those are some of the reasons I am hesitant to use polling as a reason to do something risky like blow up the ticket.

 

[SamAndreas]

I understand it is a frenzy, but I think the issue is legitimate. Biden was losing in the polls before the debate, and it has gotten worse. He isn’t doing anything to reverse the trend. It is a bad trend. Maybe, just maybe the pills are wrong. Maybe he is actually winning, but that seems like a fantasy. I expected this since the early primaries. I saw the signs and thought Democrats needed another candidate. I don’t relish that, because I’m very fond of Biden, but I’m practical. I want to win, and want the candidate that gives us the best chances. That’s not Biden.

I was so hoping you would go down that path, that's the abject the coward's path. Please register my disappointment.

You appear to be scared, and suddenly you appear to be willing to suddenly throw it all to aside.

I will ask, on the advise of who are you doing this? WHO???

MAGA is who, they have been telegraphing this move for months. They have carefully placed the building blocks for this to trick you into betraying your own, and you will do it because you have been stampeded into betraying your own kin if I do not right now intervene.

Sorry Laplaz. I am very very disappointed.



You can redeem yourself by getting up off of your arse right now, and start helping to elect Biden right NOW!.

Is that clear. Start redeeming yourself from this unsightly episode of abject cowardness now.

If you do, don't worry about it after this, everyone is born a coward, we all have to go through this. I went through this. Please pick yourself up.

You're not in the Army of Air Force I don't want to imply that. If you were in the Army or Air Force we'd call this being blooded in combat. We have all have gone through this, the moment you pick yourself up, no one will ever mention this episode again.
We're all cowards the way we were born.



I'm about to tackle this issue with that so called admiral we have. He's been like the worst coward of them all. He abandon his avatar right in mid stream the moment he became scared that Biden might not be able to serve him as he expects Biden to do.

He's no admiral at all.

Imagine a mere lieutenant from forty yesteryear bucking up against a so called self described Grand Admiral, it might be a bit much for him to endure.

I will tackle him if I have to.

I'm speaking with you now because it seemed to be the correct time to speak with you. That bare moment in time when you really can pick your arse up and MOVE IT!!! To redeem yourself from cowardice. Come on get up.

Move it, move it:

 

[Lapaz]

In regards to fitness.

Has Biden taken any observable fact (like, say a deadly pandemic) and pretended it doesn't exist?
"It's a hoax!"

Has he retreated into delusional, magical thinking regarding an emergent issue? Has he said, for instance "The Israelis and Palestinians will make peace by April! You'll see. Like magic!"

What we aren't hearing nearly enough about is how utterly, abjectly Trump failed America during his first tenure. How he proved beyond any doubt that he. Is. Not. Fit.

The media has pointed these things out for years. It doesn’t matter to the fence sitters. Everyone knows what Trump is about. What is swaying the few undecideds is the belief that Biden is incapable of serving another term. You can criticize the electorate’s stupidity, but it’s the electorate we have. I’m convinced that Biden is one of the few Democrats that would lose to that traitorous, draft dodging, blasphemous, criminal, immoral, self-interested fool.