First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[Lapaz]

I think the only reason to be concerned about whether Biden can survive a second term would be a lack of confidence in Harris. Otherwise, why does it really matter? I suppose there could be a worry that Biden could reach a point where he acts irrationally, endangering the country, but that's already openly a part of the only other viable option, and that guy is bragging about doing just that. Of the two sides, people have to come to their own belief about which administration is more likely to rein in their guy if he becomes a threat. One side will do that, the other is going to be carrying out those threats as part of the plan.

The problem with this is that I'm convinced that Biden/Harris is the best ticket, but that ticket seems to be destined to lose, and then we'll have to accept whoever Harris choses as her VP. A Harris/generic democrat ticket is more likely to win, and if they win, would have America's support. We should have a choice of leaders that we believe can lead us for the next 4 years.

 

[Incumbent]

The problem with this is that I'm convinced that Biden/Harris is the best ticket, but that ticket seems to be destined to lose, and then we'll have to accept whoever Harris choses as her VP. A Harris/generic democrat ticket is more likely to win, and if they win, would have America's support. We should have a choice of leaders that we believe can lead us for the next 4 years.

What do you mean when describing Biden and Harris as the best ticket if you think it's destined to lose? Best for America but facing popularity problems?

The issue with all other scenarios is we just don't know and don't have a lot of time to find out. If Biden's chances are done, that's not a reassuring scenario for Democrats in November.

 

[Incumbent]

According to Reuter's (not a handwringing organization), over two dozen Democratic congresspersons are about to call for him to step aside.

These aren't a few scattered voices. This is gaining momentum.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-reassure-democratic-governors-meeting-after-shaky-debate-performance-2024-07-02/

There's a caveat to that; "if he seems shaky in coming days".

Agree with the concern raised in the article that the White House isn't being forthcoming enough.

Of course I accept that even after meetings and appearances, concerns might not be quelled, even if Biden holds his own. His age was a concern to many even before the debate. If these officials do go public, I hope it's at least a diverse coalition of Democrats and not something that looks more like a coup from disgruntled members who want to move on from Biden for other reasons, for instance opposition to the Hamas and Israel war.

It might be necessary to make a change to the ticket but forcing a change could very well be disastrous. I'm losing faith that the party can navigate this and come out unified on the other side. I think we are often our own worst enemy.

 

[SamAndreas]

It's not just voters, it's the party as well. The interesting thing to me is that from all these articles coming out. Their is a huge contingent of major party players, and donors that think Biden needs to be replaced.

The NYT have been vicious. It's clear people are talking off the record, and are trying to apply pressure to quit.

You pointed to the New York Times. I think that is an important thing to point at this point in time.

About a year ago after I had noticed that the times must have encountered a large infusion of cash, they seem to have expanded their newsroom staff """Tremendously.""" They started to produce a lot more articles about every T vs B topic.

They flood the end zone at the Google News index. They will quite often have eight to twelve separate articles on a topic where CNN will have three. All of those articles taken together create an nice all sides gaslit room to read from.

I don't know if the Criminal or his gang infused it with a """Tremendous""" cash advantage, but it would be in keeping with their MO. What appears to be going on is they are doing all sides reporting until their readers have been flooded with all sides reporting which feature loads of right wingy guest editorials.

It is possible that they are trying to make loads of money reporting a horse race, when it actually is not in all likelihood a real neck in neck horse race. If so they could be just common money grubbers. It's not necessarily a Criminal take over of their resources to throw this election to the uncommon Criminal. There's an alternate explanation to that evil conspiracy theory, it might just be your normal average New York Yankee kind of business greed at work.

Anyway, I quit paying them for a subscription, and I've been ignoring their editorial stance for over a year now.

I don't think one can rely on how things were in the past. I certainly don't regard them as being anything like a trusted liberal paper anymore.

 

[Lapaz]

According to Reuter's (not a handwringing organization), over two dozen Democratic congresspersons are about to call for him to step aside.

These aren't a few scattered voices. This is gaining momentum.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-reassure-democratic-governors-meeting-after-shaky-debate-performance-2024-07-02/

This isn't going away. This is the worst kind of momentum. Despite all of the advantages, the Biden/Harris ticket is polling poorly. We can choose to believe and hope that those polls are wrong, but that seems like a terrible idea, given the brewing authoritarian in the wings. We all have our policy preferences, but there is a real potential that we could lose our Democracy, so it won't matter what policy you prefer. Despite that danger, in which a majority of Americans agree, more people want to take that risk over voting for a man they believe is no longer able to do the job. The Democratic party is not putting forth its best. Biden has been a great president, but past performance is not an indicator of future performance, especially when the most recent performance doesn't measure up to past performance. I'm expecting an announcement soon. I bet the discussion now is when is the best time to announce that Harris is taking over, and who should be her VP. It will energize Democrats and swing voters.

 

[SamAndreas]

Harris Newsom is probably the best possible combination. I'll explain based on general societal views and not my personal views and that it's really to create the a ticket with people who have the least objections from the voting public.

Keep in mind that all of these people are in a dead heat according to polling, so none of them offer a real polling advantage. I haven't seen any polling on Shapiro, so he seems like too much of a risk at this time. That could change with polling.

Harris has to be at the top of the ticket for financial and demographic reasons. People have been saying Biden is losing the black vote, without any objective, definitive data to support it. Same thing with young votes. If you want to do your best to lose black and young voters, then by all means make her take a seat at the back or just leave her out completely.

Harris is a non-white woman, that's a double barrelled obstacle for her to overcome. It shouldn't be, but it is. So Whitmer's out. Two women turns a double barrel challenge into a Howitzer problem.

Buttigieg is out, because his homosexuality poses extra challenges as well.

That leaves Newsom as the least objectionable and as a VP any "skeletons" he has want be as damaging. He just has the accetpable time of person to the most voters, and unfortuantely white straight Christian male fits that better than the other options who poll as well as Biden and as Harris does. Here's the rub, Newsom is very sincere when he says he's not getting into the mix. He'll have to be persuaded first and it may be easier to persuade him if Biden voluntarily steps down and Newsom isn't replacing Biden directly.

I think Harris would be able to make herself more acceptable to a majority of voters than Trump, even though she's a non-white woman. I think having Newsom would help her with that. I think Harris would make Trump look like a fool in any debate format and Newsom would do the same with whoever Trump picks as his VP. Harris can legally use the money Biden has already raised and would likely retain all of the current campaign staffers and volunteers which is critical already. Newsom is a also a strong fundraiser.

The sneaky advantage I think Harris has that polls have been whiffing on since Dobbs overturned Roe, is women and young voters. They are voting at higher rates than polls have picked up on and they are a large voting block. Harris is liked by both groups. Harris has also been attacked some by Trump's camp and she's weathered it well. We don't know how any of the other options will hold up to Trump's attacks and it's a big risk to go into that without a clue.

If Biden is replaced, I thimk Harris-Newsom gives the only viable chance of winning. Despite what people think, a presidential campaign is not simply just a popularty contest. Popularity will get you nowhere with out the money that's need to execute the collasal logitstical undertaking that a presidential campaign is.

Newsome has the problem in that his ex-wife is currently sleeping with enemy. There's bound to be dirt on him, and his ex-wife would know where that dirt is to be found.

There's got to be a reason Newsom has not shown any interest in going there, and I suspect that's the reason. His ex-wife is sleeping with Don Jr.

 

[SaintForLife]

...Several White House reporters told CNN that the coverage of Biden’s age and his mental stamina should have pushed harder. They cited several difficulties in doing so before the debate – from the obvious political motivations of sources who either want to protect Biden’s image or project a certain image, to the blowback from pursuing such reports, especially from the White House and Democrats.

The White House press shop has also been very “aggressive” and “fairly successful” in mitigating coverage of concerns over the president’s age, said another White House reporter who works for a different publication.

...“Berating reporters who bring them reporting about age concerns, bemoaning that it’s all anyone writes about (clearly, it’s not) and often attacking pieces after they run,” the reporter told CNN. “I think that’s left some folks to conclude that these stories are too painful to report or that they should pick their spots more. It’s clear the age stories that have angered the White House (and the liberal Twittersphere) the most.”

...Some reporters said that there has been a distinct change within the last year, and that the press corps should have reported more aggressively on the accommodations made for the president.

“I think the press, most of the White House press, did suffer from a bit of lack of curiosity,” one of the reporters said.

Biden’s mental fitness could have been better covered leading up to the debate, some White House reporters acknowledge | CNN Business

President Joe Biden’s White House repeatedly and aggressively shot down reports on the president’s age and any possible limitations on his ability to perform all the duties of his office. But after his shaky debate performance last week, in which Biden routinely struggled to get his point...

www.cnn.com

 

[Incumbent]

Newsome has the problem in that his ex-wife is currently sleeping with enemy. There's bound to be dirt on him, and his ex-wife would know where that dirt is to be found.

There's got to be a reason Newsom has not shown any interest in going there, and I suspect that's the reason. His ex-wife is sleeping with Don Jr.

I think this is a legitimate concern.

And on top of that, she wouldn’t have to be honest in her accusations.

 

[SamAndreas]

Even if it's only a dead heat, that's still gotta be concerning. Biden being the incumbent ordinarily should have a substantial lead in his own party's polling. That it's a dead heat means a lot of people are questioning Biden’s ability to serve another 4 years as President.

Ultimately, I think the best odds lie with Biden proving to the public that the debate was simply a poor performance for him and that he's fine health-wise. Anything else and the outcomes are much less certain.

I think he does have a substantial lead. I think the Criminal and his gang have bought out, or have leaned on enough of the remaining polling houses to affect the averages such that it appears to be a neck to neck horse race.

It doesn't have to be a Criminal conspiracy theory, It simply could be that the media giants can make a lot more money reporting a four year long neck to neck horse race, over what they would stand ot make if they reported that Biden was going to wallop the sorry Criminal.

 

[Lapaz]

What do you mean when describing Biden and Harris as the best ticket if you think it's destined to lose? Best for America but facing popularity problems?

The issue with all other scenarios is we just don't know and don't have a lot of time to find out. If Biden's chances are done, that's not a reassuring scenario for Democrats in November.

I meant between Biden/Harris vs Trump/whoever. Harris/another candidate would be a better ticket.

 

[Lapaz]

I think this is a legitimate concern.

And on top of that, she wouldn’t have to be honest in her accusations.

That's not a concern. It's his ex, not his current wife. I think Newsome would be a great choice. After Newsome, I would consider Adam Kinzinger. Such a bi-partisan ticket might be necessary to assure victory, plus Adam is a very moderate Republican.

 

[SamAndreas]

Kevin's small potatoes, we need to talk about Trump. non-stop.

No, absolutely not, "we need to" avoid talking about that Criminal non-stop. Getting us to talk about him is his MO. If we do that his gaslight enters our homes, it will suffocate us if it goes on too long.

My wife and I are strictly limiting how much we talk about that bastage to about a half hour per day for this reason.

Anymore discussion about him per day is counterproductive. We need to maintain our mental health first and foremost. The more dire it is, the more important it is to maintain our mental health going forward.

 

[Incumbent]

That's not a concern. It's his ex, not his current wife. I think Newsome would be a great choice. After Newsome, I would consider Adam Kinzinger. Such a bi-partisan ticket might be necessary to assure victory, plus Adam is a very moderate Republican.

Given the propensity of the right and their allies to spread misinformation, I think it's absolutely a concern. Doesn't necessarily mean it's insurmountable, but on a compressed timeline, I don't like conditions for finding out. There are qualities I like about Newsom but I don't know that he's the right answer in this moment.

I don't think the party needs to, or should, go outside of its ranks to find a running mate. I doubt Kinzinger would be interested, anyway. He's made it clear he's very much a republican, he just recognizes the dangers that Trump poses. I want Democrats to stay focused on their ideas as part of the contrast to Trump. Kinzinger isn't an ally on that front.

 

[SamAndreas]

Yes I'm pretty sure there is no longer any pro-Biden vote. It is all an anti-Trump vote at this point. The Joe Cool image where he stood there and flashed his grin in 2020 while Trump dug his own grave has been replaced by a cadaver who will gladly take the shovel from Trump and keep digging for himself.

Trump is a weak candidate and anyone with a functional brain can capitalize on it. Even Kamala. Others will get dragged down to his level and mumble about golf handicaps.

Whow, what am I, chopped liver??? You've been in the Criminal's gaslight for way too long.

I'm of the rooting tooting "pro-Biden vote." I voted for him in the 2020 primary, after my first pick Kamala Harris dropped out.

That worked out real well, I got both my first and second picks all in one in the end.

I know a whole bunch of folks who also are very much pro-Biden. The majority core, the base, of our party are pro-Biden. It's the 10 to 15 percent of the more far left oriented folks who often vote with our party, who appear to be the bulk of the anti-Criminal voters.

 

[Incumbent]

No, absolutely not, "we need to" avoid talking about that Criminal non-stop. Getting us to talk about him is his MO. If we do that his gaslight enters our homes, it will suffocate us if it goes on too long.

My wife and I are strictly limiting how much we talk about that bastage to about a half hour per day for this reason.

Anymore discussion about him per day is counterproductive. We need to maintain our mental health first and foremost. The more dire it is, the more important it is to maintain our mental health going forward.

I think LA-L.A. is saying we need to stay focused on Trump's flaws and the dangers he poses. I agree with that. The future of our democracy is on the ballot and the best way to make that point is to maintain focus on the harm the right wants to do. The head of the Heritage Foundation warning about bloodshed if the left opposes their takeover should be chilling to everybody who doesn't support that.

The left and the media are intensifying the spotlight on Biden while Christofascist thugs are telling us the horrible plans they have for our nation.

 

[DaveXA]

Just for the sake of accuracy, it's Newsom, not Newsome.

 

[DaveXA]

That's not a concern. It's his ex, not his current wife. I think Newsome would be a great choice. After Newsome, I would consider Adam Kinzinger. Such a bi-partisan ticket might be necessary to assure victory, plus Adam is a very moderate Republican.

I'd love a Newsom Kinzinger ticket, but that's a pipe dream. The DNC would never allow it.

 

[Lapaz]

Given the propensity of the right and their allies to spread misinformation, I think it's absolutely a concern. Doesn't necessarily mean it's insurmountable, but on a compressed timeline, I don't like conditions for finding out. There are qualities I like about Newsome but I don't know that he's the right answer in this moment.

I don't think the party needs to, or should, go outside of its ranks to find a running mate. I doubt Kinzinger would be interested, anyway. He's made it clear he's very much a republican, he just recognizes the dangers that Trump poses. I want Democrats to stay focused on their ideas as part of the contrast to Trump. Kinzinger isn't an ally on that front.

Kinzinger is a patriot against everything anti-democratic. He may differ in some policy ideas, but those are irrelevant compared to the task of beating Trump and MAGA zombies. No matter what, I think it needs to be a young, good looking and well spoken white man, because Kamala is enough revolutionary change for one ticket. Could tap Andy Beshear. Trump is horrible, but he understands that Americans are shallow, so someone that looks good matters to many voters.