First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[Lapaz]

He hosts Democrats on his show all the time. I watch him every now and then and he's pretty much a straight shooter and I think a lot of Democrats like that about him. He's long been a tough critic of Trump. I'd bet money he gets more Democrats watching his show than Republicans by a mile.

I think on his radio show, the audience is split pretty evenly, but on CNN it is probably mostly centrists and people on the left watching him on CNN, simply because most Republicans avoid CNN.

 

[zztop]

Yup, this is my take as well.....I just refuse to believe that this country would elect a wanna be tin pot dictator again....He lost soundly in the last election, I don't think the Dobbs decision is going to help him in this one....

I thought the same thing for the 2016 election, got a dose of reality that not everyone is paying that much attention to what is at stake. Then the second election came around, and I thought "this time the people learned their lesson - they've had 4 years of his garbage'... only for millions more to vote for him. Now I think between Israel and this debate, it will be too much to overcome

 

[Lapaz]

The truth of my family and friends are not necessary the same truth of the Biden family. I want to make it clear that I understand that.

In my family and with my friends, there's been several people who have been afflicted with either Alzheimer's frontotemporal, Lewy Body dementia or vascular dementia. Not a single spouse or family member of those afflicted were ever in denial of what the afflicted person could and could not handle at each stage of the disease, in fact it was the opposite. Some family members jumped the gun on being overly protective and restrictive.

If the Biden family is like my family and friends, then I take it as a positive sign that Joe's family thinks he can handle the campaign and being president for four more years.

Other people here have loved ones afflicted with the various diseases of dementia. In your experiences, was anyone in the family exhibit denial about what the afflicted loved one could and could not handle?

I don't think Biden has dementia, but I also don't think he'll survive the job until he is 86. It is a highly demanding job, and I think he was barely able to finish his first term, so I don't think he'll be able to finish his second. Staying in the race will cement his legacy very badly. I heard someone else say this, and I agree that If he were to bow out, he would be this generation's George Washington. No one would care about the last debate. He would be hailed for putting the country over himself, and ironically would make himself look much more positively in history.

 

[Lapaz]

NO!!!

If Biden steps aside Kamala Harris becomes the incumbent President who would hold the huge election kitty they have jointly raised in her name. They are like married people in that she holds the sole presidential survivor benefits.

All other candidates would start from scratch at a very late date to be just beginning to raise the election cash they would need.

Kamala is probably the most likely, but I think very well known candidates like Newsome or Whitmore won't need as much money, plus I think the DNC will make sure they are funded, and they may already have campaign money from their last run.

 

[SFIDC3]

I’m on a one-day family trip to New Orleans today. Met Dennis Allen today, in fact.

And like @bdb13 I’m actually putting a new roof on my house this week, too.

We’re all busy. This isn’t really about you posting all day every day. It’s more that you excuse yourself from a conversation every single time the going gets tough.

And then you consistently use these situations as an excuse to avoid the real questions people are asking you.

Wow, that sounds suspiciously like playing the victim, I wonder what playbook that comes out of....Ole Steve has been chock full of shart since he started posting, which is exactly what I would expect from a Christian nationalist.....

 

[Optimus Prime]

 

[DaveXA]

I dunno, from my recollection they both have similar styles (those deflection-type posts where they talk about their busy lives or w/e instead), but the forum has ways of detecting/flagging ip addresses of previously banned posters, so...highly improbable it's DD part 2.

They have both posted pictures of themselves at points in the past. They aren't the same person. I've also personally spoken with DD on a couple of occasions, although it's been a few years since I last talked to him. I can assure you, they aren't the same person. Also, I've read several year's worth of DD's posts on both sites, there are some similarities in their thinking, but posting style is really different.

But yeah, I agree with the rest.

 

[SFIDC3]

I can respect that as long as you take responsibility for what happens after he gets elected.

I mean, I can't.....because no Trump supporter has or will ever take any responsibility for that one time (not at band camp) at the Capital......they deserve zero respect but plenty of disdain.....

 

[J-DONK]

I just read that the Heritage Foundation is readying legal challenges in swing states if the democrats try to run anyone other than Biden at the top of the ticket. They will try to appeal to SCOTUS. I don’t trust this SCOTUS to decide anything fairly at this point. Heritage will ask the court to basically throw the election to Trump.

I don't know how this works honestly. The parties didn't have primary elections for a long time.

 

[zztop]

They have both posted pictures of themselves at points in the past. They aren't the same person. I've also personally spoken with DD on a couple of occasions, although it's been a few years since I last talked to him. I can assure you, they aren't the same person. Also, I've read several year's worth of DD's posts on both sites, there are some similarities in their thinking, but posting style is really different.

But yeah, I agree with the rest.

You must be misunderstanding me, I never said they were the same person. You don't have to convince me lol

 

[Optimus Prime]

Full Text:

His performance was awful. But so was Trump’s.

Biden was feeble. Trump couldn’t directly answer a single question and lied with every response.

The question is what features voters believe make a better POTUS : Feeble, Capable and Ethical vs Vigorous, Unethical and Incapable of telling the truth.

I’ll vote ethical every time.

The reality is Joe wasn’t capable last night of debating someone who only lies. He doesn’t have the energy or ability to shout him down, hold him accountable and laugh at Trump’s responses.

Joe could have held his own against a candidate that actually can discuss policy. But that wasn’t the challenge last night and Joe wasn’t prepared or capable of dealing with Donald and his style. That aside, there is no way you could listen to Donald last night and come away feeling confident that Trump has the ability to go deeper than his practiced soundbites.

He repeated himself often and never directly answered the moderator’s questions There was nothing that would give anyone confidence he could hold his own in any complicated situation. Or that he could intellectually go toe to toe with any world leader or adversary.

In fact, his non answers about J6 and election acceptance should scare every American about his interest in upholding his oath to the constitution

That doesn’t make Biden’s performance any less awful. But, he answered the questions he was asked, even if the presentation was underwhelming. And we have the last 3 plus years and of his being POTUS with out his getting laughed or smirked at, no tell-alls or leaks discussing his incompetence. No former advisors or cabinet members saying they won’t vote for him. That gives me confidence that in the normal duties of the Presidency he can hold his own and do the job.

Unfortunately, This election is not about policies. It’s about soundbites, social media and who delivers them better and the algorithms that deliver them to voters.

Trump is far better than Biden at soundbites and marketing. That’s reality

For that reason , I’m also open to the discussion to replace Biden and/or Harris. It’s not like Trump’s approval ratings are high. They aren’t. It could be an open door to find someone that immediately out performs Trump. Beyond the loyalty of his hard core 30 % or so, I think a large number of people who currently support him would walk away to a better alternative.

But if that doesn’t happen, I’m still voting for Biden, the ethical candidate who unquestionably stands by his oath and puts country over self interest.

 

[DaveXA]

Can Mark Cuban run for President? Surely he's miles better than both Biden and Trump, lol. He's also got enough money to fund himself if he wanted to.

 

[Optimus Prime]

for what it's worth

 

[bird]

Can Mark Cuban run for President? Surely he's miles better than both Biden and Trump, lol. He's also got enough money to fund himself if he wanted to.

Um, no thanks. I don’t need billionaire businessmen running for that office. It is far too complex.

 

[DaveXA]

Um, no thanks. I don’t need billionaire businessmen running for that office. It is far too complex.

And running a large business isn't? Fwiw, at least with Cuban, he's at least supporting Biden. He's a pretty reasonable person and I think would bring a lot to the table.

 

[bird]

And running a large business isn't? Fwiw, at least with Cuban, he's at least supporting Biden. He's a pretty reasonable person and I think would bring a lot to the table.

Running a large business is complicated. That is not the same as complex. A business is essentially a hierarchy where the CEO/President have immense authority which is basically unchecked. The presidency is complex. Relations between states, between states and the federal government, between the U.S. and allies, between the US and adversaries, between US and unaligned countries et al are far beyond what a business does. Sure, a transnational business has to deal in multiple places with differing laws and regulations but the CEO would put people in place to deal with that. The POTUS can do similar things but in the end the complexity is far and away different than running a business.

 

[DaveXA]

Running a large business is complicated. That is not the same as complex. A business is essentially a hierarchy where the CEO/President have immense authority which is basically unchecked. The presidency is complex. Relations between states, between states and the federal government, between the U.S. and allies, between the US and adversaries, between US and unaligned countries et al are far beyond what a business does. Sure, a transnational business has to deal in multiple places with differing laws and regulations but the CEO would put people in place to deal with that. The POTUS can do similar things but in the end the complexity is far and away different than running a business.

Sure, but realize a lot of people get much of their experience in the private sector before going into public service. You have to gain that experience somewhere. And Presidents have had all kinds of backgrounds before going into politics. Cuban is obviously smart enough to figure all that out.

By the way, I'm not saying he should run, and he's already said he won't run because of his kids' ages. He said he wants them all out of HS ar least before running, which would be like 2032. By that time a lot will have changed anyway.

I'm just saying I like him more that either of the candidates running now.

 

[bird]

And running a large business isn't? Fwiw, at least with Cuban, he's at least supporting Biden. He's a pretty reasonable person and I think would bring a lot to the table.

Complex vs. Complicated Systems

An explanation of the key distinction between complex (organic) systems, and complicated (mechanical) systems. This distinction is critical.

www.beyondintractability.org

The link gives some definition between complicated and complex.