First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[DaveXA]

I wish he would have too, but I can understand some of the reasons why he might not have. If the second CNN debate happens, either Biden is going to require CNN to fact check live or he'll be prepared for CNN not fact checking.

The last debate is historically the one that has the most influence on voting, even though it's still not a lot of influence. The general public is a lot like sports fandom, they see the candidates as only as good as their last game, in this case it's the last debate instead of the last game.

I'd bet my house Trump will refuse any more debates.

 

[LA - L.A.]

I actually feel sorry for Biden.

No you don't and everyone knows you don't, so what's the point in pretending otherwise?

I don't like him politically,...

Everyone knows that too.

..but his family should be ashamed of themselves for not convincing him he shouldn't run again.

Out of Biden's family and you, only one of you should be ashamed and it isn't Biden's family. The reason you should be ashamed is for constantly repeating lies like below:

The Democrats and media have been lying to us for 3.5 years about Bidens condition....

That's a lie and you should be ashamed that you keep repeating it. I understand though, you're just as scared that Biden is going to beat Trump, so you're just as desperate to get him to drop out or to get people not to vote for him. Keep swinging that dead cat and you might actually hit a voter or two. It won't be nearly enough to sway the election, but at least you keep sleep well knowing you did what you could to put Trump in the White House so he can destroy our country and remake it into a fascist state that suits your liking.

He looked so bad that even his fans in the media couldn't lie anymore about his condition.

No, that's not correct. Trump's fans in the media are still very much lying about Trump's obvious emotional and neurological conditions, but you can rest assured that they won't be able to keep the lie up all the way to the election. That damn of lies is over capacity and it's going to catastrophically fail before the election.

Why, even though you didn't ask? Because Trump's own polling data is showing he's actually trailing Biden and that will continue all the way to the election. Here's Trump's tell that will give him away. The closer the election gets, the more Trump is going to start talking about rigged and stolen elections. That's the give away that Trump knows he's probably going to lose.

Just Thursday night when he was asked if he will accept the election results, Trump avoided the question. Trump is an overconfident blowhard and he doesn't even feel confident enough that he'll win to simply say "yes, I'll accept the results." That's the giveaway that Trump is at the very least not confident that he's going to beat Biden. Combined that with his constant pressure campaign to get Biden to drop out and it's obvious that Trump his scared he's going to lose to Biden again.

After today, I'm going to back off this issue a bit, because one of the best ways to make sure Biden wins, is for the majority of Americans to be afraid he might lose. Fear and anger are the main things that motivate people to vote. The overwhelming majority of women in almost every state are really angry at Trump and they make up the majority of registered voters in almost every state, so tick off anger. The overwhelming majority of voters who are not angry at Trump are terrified of him being president again, so the more of them that are afraid that Biden my lose the better, because that will mean more votes for Biden.

The fear of Biden losing and Trump winning is good for election turnout. Unfortunately, it's less than desirable a thing for us as individuals.

Stay scared of Trump America, it'll keep us from letting him back in the White House to ruin the country for the overwhelming majority of us.

 

[Incumbent]

This raises an important point

Biden had a very bad night, but yes to his credit he owned it

Trump thought he was going to have a bad night, and spend the days and weeks before spraying ready made pre excuses for the future bad night

“The format is rigged!”

“CNN is biased!”*****

“Biden will be doped up on everything from Adderall, caffeine pills to Mountain Dew!”

“Maybe I’ll lose the debate on purpose”

Can you imagine any universe where if Trump was the one who had a terrible showing he would have taken even the tiniest bit of responsibility?

To me that just further illustrates the difference between the moral character of the two men

*****CNN is certainly getting raked over the coals as well for this debate and as has been pointed out here could very well have been a factor in Biden’s poor showing.

But as far as I know Biden hasn’t said anything publicly blaming the network or the moderators

I understand exactly what you’re saying and agree with the central point; Trump will never admit fault or demonstrate accountability.

But I think it’s important to acknowledge that Trump did have a terrible showing. Anybody can stand up and spew lies and vitriol with conviction. That requires no skill or preparation. Does anybody outside of his cult think Trump has the acumen to excel if he had to participate in a fact-based forum and demonstrate dignity and leadership? Of course he doesn’t.

Biden’s team should have known it’s exactly how Trump was going to behave and they should have scaled back on their own approach. There was absolutely no need to try and memorize hard data and regurgitate facts. Just speak in generalized truths. They should have kept Biden loose and guided him to hit highlights, speak to successes and future plans, and contrast their visions for America. Nothing more was necessary.

Just like Trump always does, he should have covered what he wanted to and not played to the moderators or Trump. Biden has never been an eloquent speaker, and age takes a toll on everybody, so under a different strategy, it might not have been significantly better, but there was a way to give a passable performance and just get through the event.

 

[LA - L.A.]

The Ragin Cajun gets it

Yes, he gets it all wrong. They call him Ragin for a reason.

Instead of quoting a white as white can be white guy on what people who aren't white think, why don't you ask your non-white colleges on this board what they think?

I mean if you can't see the absurdity of quoting a white guy talking about what people who aren't white think and boasting that the white guy gets it, then you don't want to get it, so you never will.

For the record, I don't know what people who aren't white think about the term "communities of color," because I'm white skinned.

 

[DaveXA]

Yes, he gets it all wrong. They call him Ragin for a reason.

Instead of quoting a white as white can be white guy what people who aren't white think, why don't your non-white colleges on this board what they think?

I mean if you can't see the absurdity of quoting a white guy talking about what people who aren't white think and boasting that the white guy gets it, then you don't want to get it, so you never will.

For the record, I don't know what people who aren't white think about the term "communities of color," because I'm white skinned.

"Communities of color"...TIL.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Can you source this because I'm interested in knowing about this "secret" polling data.

That was a piss poor use of words on my part. I said secret, but what I meant was private and confidential polling data. I've read many times over the years that it's common practice for campaigns to commission their own private and confidential polling, and that they rely on those polls more than any others. When they're data shows them leading, they sometimes publicly release it, but they never release the data that shows they're struggling or trialing. I've quickly looked for a source that directly confirms it but didn't find one.

I did find this two-for-one quote that shows Trump campaign did internal polling in 2016 and that they shared it with a Russian agent.

In an interview with Insider, Paul Manafort, who served as Donald Trump's campaign chairman, made his first public admission that in 2016 he shared polling data from the Trump campaign with Konstantin Kilimnik, a longtime business associate with suspected ties to Russian intelligence.

They wouldn't have to share that polling data with a Russian agent if it was publicly released polling data. The Russian agent could have just gotten the data for himself.

Exclusive: Paul Manafort admits he passed Trump campaign data to a suspected Russian asset

Trump's former campaign chair tells Insider he shared polling data with longtime business associate Konstantin Kilimnik to help secure business deals.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[faceman]

I agree that it's forked up in that sense but it also largely just is what it is there in my view.. if you're not hardcore against Trump and don't follow things closely enough to know better when he's obviously lying, Biden came off much worse by confirming the fears about his age and mental state.

I've calmed a bit since the debate. If it makes you fell better Trump could kill a dog and shirt on it's corpse and his cult will still vote for him. I dont believe last nights debate changed much

 

[LA - L.A.]

I'd bet my house Trump will refuse any more debates.

I agree he's going to take his ball and get the hell out of Dodge while the getting's good for him.


Since Trump tends to make a better impression on people than Biden in debates, I think it works more to Biden's advantage not to have any more debates.

Videos of Trump's incoherent ramblings and vitriol will make everyone who's not a member of Trump's cult forget about this debate. Their only impression of Trump come time to cast their vote will be who and how Trump truly is.

Biden in the meantime can focus more on much more urgent issues which gives him more examples of him walking the walking effectively as a president.

 

[Optimus Prime]

I understand exactly what you’re saying and agree with the central point; Trump will never admit fault or demonstrate accountability.

But I think it’s important to acknowledge that Trump did have a terrible showing. Anybody can stand up and spew lies and vitriol with conviction. That requires no skill or preparation. Does anybody outside of his cult think Trump has the acumen to excel if he had to participate in a fact-based forum and demonstrate dignity and leadership? Of course he doesn’t.

Biden’s team should have known it’s exactly how Trump was going to behave and they should have scaled back on their own approach. There was absolutely no need to try and memorize hard data and regurgitate facts. Just speak in generalized truths. They should have kept Biden loose and guided him to hit highlights, speak to successes and future plans, and contrast their visions for America. Nothing more was necessary.

Just like Trump always does, he should have covered what he wanted to and not played to the moderators or Trump. Biden has never been an eloquent speaker, and age takes a toll on everybody, so under a different strategy, it might not have been significantly better, but there was a way to give a passable performance and just get through the event.

Agreed

I meant showing as the optics and with the media and pundits saying the same things about Trump that they’ve been saying about Biden the past couple days

 

[LA - L.A.]

Which is the problem and why Biden is being singled out. It’s an illusion that Trump was better in the debate, he just took a different approach. You don’t have to be sharp to spew lies and vitriol.

It’s ****** that Biden is the one who has to prove he’s up to the job when everything we know about Trump is that he’s not.

And to add to the last part, Biden has proven for four years he's up for the job and for building a team that's up for the job. Trump has failed drastically at both of those proving that no matter how smoothly he talks, he's disastrously not up for the job of being president.

 

[MT15]

Trump “won” precisely because facts didn’t matter.

This is exactly right. You cannot expect Biden to fact check in real time because nobody could do it. If you care about being truthful, you cannot quickly deal with a Gish Gallup - we all well know that from our resident galloper. You have to look up the actual facts and refute them one point at a time, and Biden had limited time to respond. It’s holding him to an impossible standard.

I think Biden was in the horrible first phase of a cold. The phase where you feel like complete shirt, and it’s possible they gave him something that made him drowsy as a side effect, just so he wouldn’t be sneezing and congested on stage.

By the next day, he felt much better. CNN is also courting right wing viewers at this time, and they seem to have done little things to stack the deck.

I don’t think Biden has deteriorated since January - when he showed a quick wit during the improvised portion of the SOTU. Someone I read has blamed his debate prep - instead of letting him be himself, they tried to fill his head with talking points and facts to bring up. I think his spouting lists of points and enumerating them is evidence of this.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter because his opponent is just completely unfit.

 

[LA - L.A.]

Agree that’s the perception for some people. I think at this point, people who aren’t avid Trump supporters AND don’t know how dishonest he is probably aren’t reliable voters.

I do think it’s interesting that Biden reportedly outraised Trump by six million dollars following the debate, $14m to $8m, a figure that is now up to $27 million.

That's extremely interesting given Biden's general honesty about fundraising and Trump's complete and total dishonesty when reporting fundraising.

Cue Trump's campaign claiming real soon that Trump raised $54 million.

People who give money get out and vote. So here's to hoping that most of Biden's donations are small donations from a crap ton of individuals, because that means a crap ton of people having just affirmed they are still voting for Biden, even after his struggles during the debate.

The candidate who raises the most funds usually wins and it's not just because they have more money to spend. Fundraising is a consistently good indicator of who has the most voting support. The only time it's skewed is when a candidate is get bigger donations from fewer people. Guess what? Trump catching up with Biden's fundraising is mostly because of big contributions from millionaires and billionaires.

What I'd really like to know is the fundraising comparison between Biden and Trump in the swing states. How much are they getting in each state and how many people are giving how much. I've quickly looked for the information before, but it's not readily available. I might have to got to the FEC website to extract and compile the data myself. I think that would be a more reliable indicator of the voting support each candidate has in the swing states than any polling is.

 

[el caliente]

I've calmed a bit since the debate. If it makes you fell better Trump could kill a dog and shirt on it's corpse and his cult will still vote for him. I dont believe last nights debate changed much

Tbf, if we are talking about cults, Biden could die the day before the election and his cult would still place write in votes for his corpse.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Tbf, if we are talking about cults, Biden could die the day before the election and his cult would still place write in votes for his corpse.

I’d take a Weekend at Bernie’s administration over Trumps everyday of the week

 

[LA - L.A.]

Traffic on this board is too light to base much on when making observations. My thoughts on this are largely shaped but what I’m seeing in other spaces, and from the media. There’s a one-sidedness to the debate fallout that I don’t think is justified.

It's the media, especially CNN which is one of my sources for news, that's got me the most ticked off.

They're acting like some parents do when they have a responsible child and an incorrigible child. Some parents give up on criticizing the incorrigible child's behavior and focus all of their energy on hyper-criticizing anything less than perfect or ideal behavior from the responsible child. It's lazy and bad parenting and it's lazy and bad journalism.

 

[MT15]

Tbf, if we are talking about cults, Biden could die the day before the election and his cult would still place write in votes for his corpse.

This isn’t true and you should know better. Go back and see how many of us in this thread have said that if Biden decides to withdraw we will vote for whoever runs against Trump. I can think of several without even looking.

There’s only one party right now with a messiah who won’t back anyone else.

 

[Incumbent]

It's the media, especially CNN which is one of of my sources for news, that's got me the most ticked off.

They're acting like some parents do when they have a responsible child and an incorrigible child. Some parents give up on criticizing the incorrigible child's behavior and focus all of their energy on hyper-criticizing anything less than perfect or ideal behavior from the responsible child. It's lazy and bad parenting and it's lazy and bad journalism.

These were the headlines on the NYT app earlier today. Not a single one about Trump. Screenshots are mine so this is firsthand.

 

[faceman]

This isn’t true and you should know better. Go back and see how many of us in this thread have said that if Biden decides to withdraw we will vote for whoever runs against Trump. I can think of several without even looking.

There’s only one party right now with a messiah who won’t back anyone else.

Amen. If the Republicans had nominated Chris Christie I'd be undecided now. They didn't and I'd vote for my dog before I'd pull the lever for Trump.