First presidential debate (7 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    If he didn’t know that Trump was going to spew a stream of lies...
    You're missing the point completely. Of course, Biden knew that Trump was going to lie. What he didn't know is that the CNN moderators weren't going to say or do anything about it.

    I challenge you to go find any non-primary presidential debate in which the moderators did not fact check or push back on the candidates when they said things that weren't true. You're not going to find it, because it's never happened before.

    Biden had to use up his limited time to speak to fact check Trump. Biden didn't point out and correct some of Trump's lies, but if he had fact checked all of Trump's lies himself, he would have used up all of his time just fact checking Trump and he wouldn't have been able to talk about what he wanted to talk about.

    If Biden had spent all of his time fact checking Trump, then same people moaning about him not fact checking Trump would be moaning about him using up all his time to fact check Trump. Tunnel vision, magical thinking, and the inability to think things through from a broad perspective has afflicted so many people. That has me much more concerned than Biden's fitness for four years.
     
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    Yeah if he got so thrown off by the lies from Trump that we all knew were coming... that's telling in and of itself imo.
    He knew Trump was going to lie and he was prepared for it.

    What no one saw coming and what Biden got thrown off by was that for the first time ever in a presidential debate, the moderators did not fact check or push back on a single lie that a presidential candidate told. I was just as shocked as Biden, because it was shockingly unprecedented and appalling on CNN's part.

    So there's nothing telling about Biden being surprised by and unprepared for CNN shirking long standing journalistic responsibilities and traditions.
     
    To the hypotheticals of replacing Biden:

    Were that to happen, bypassing Harris would very likely create fractures in the base, especially if the choice is a white male candidate who hasn’t previously run a presidential campaign. I say that as somebody who likes Newsom as a presidential candidate in the abstract.

    And I’ve already said I don’t trust America to elect Harris as president under what would be extraordinary circumstances.
     
    yeah, I would have made that point # 1. Call out the moderators for crissakes
    I wish he would have too, but I can understand some of the reasons why he might not have. If the second CNN debate happens, either Biden is going to require CNN to fact check live or he'll be prepared for CNN not fact checking.

    The last debate is historically the one that has the most influence on voting, even though it's still not a lot of influence. The general public is a lot like sports fandom, they see the candidates as only as good as their last game, in this case it's the last debate instead of the last game.
     
    I wasn't the one who brought up sundowning, the person i was responding to brought it up.
    This is true and fair. I was the one who brought it up. I was also the one who pointed out that when people are sundowning due to dementia, they don't remember what happened during that period later. Biden clearly remembers the debate.
     
    This is true and fair. I was the one who brought it up. I was also the one who pointed out that when people are sundowning due to dementia, they don't remember what happened during that period later. Biden clearly remembers the debate.
    Blame me as well. I called him out earlier even though he didn't make the original comment. My best friends Mother died from dementia. She would ask her children to rewind tapes of movies she had just finished watching. She couldn't remember she had just watched it, It's a horrible way to say goodbye to someone. Biden had a bad night,but he is not suffering from dementia or alzheimers.
     
    He knew Trump was going to lie and he was prepared for it.

    What no one saw coming and what Biden got thrown off by was that for the first time ever in a presidential debate, the moderators did not fact check or push back on a single lie that a presidential candidate told. I was just as shocked as Biden, because it was shockingly unprecedented and appalling on CNN's part.

    So there's nothing telling about Biden being surprised by and unprepared for CNN shirking long standing journalistic responsibilities and traditions.
    I do understand that I and mentioned during the debate how much it helps Trump to be able to just straight up lie like he was doing with no pushback from the moderators... I just don't believe that's the entirety of the reason that he struggled so mightily... Probably added to it, but he started off things very poorly and just generally looked bad and it didn't get better.
     
    Blame me as well. I called him out earlier even though he didn't make the original comment. My best friends Mother died from dementia. She would ask her children to rewind tapes of movies she had just finished watching. She couldn't remember she had just watched it, It's a horrible way to say goodbye to someone. Biden had a bad night,but he is not suffering from dementia or alzheimers.
    I don't think it's dementia but he's certainly diminished with good moments and bad moments that I just think are the reality of him being an old man.
     
    If Trump had only told one or two lies whenever it was his turn, I think Biden would have done a lot better. But by telling almost only lies, then Biden had trouble focusing on which to answer first. It is a debating technic that is called Gish gallop and even for a top notch debater, it is really hard to counter

    "Strategy. During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate."

    The moderators are at fault for allowing Trump to do this. This technique is very much frowned upon in debating and will disqualify the participant in some formats

    Back in the 1980's we called it spread debating in high school and college. Spread debaters would motor mouth at a speed that would make auctioneers blush. Their goal was to cram so many arguments and evidence citations into their allotted speaking time that the opposing team would not be able to flow it (take notes) without missing some things and/or would not have enough time to respond to everything in their allotted speaking time.

    We were held very strictly to the speaking time limits, just like the debate on Thursday. It's a strategy that works best if your on the negative side arguing against the affirmative team's case supporting the topic of the debate, because the burden of proof is with the affirmative team. Most of the teams that did it, did it because they were not good at spotting the weaknesses in the opposing teams arguments or evidence and then making strong arguments against those weaknesses, so instead they shotgun spread a bunch of arguments hoping that some of them would sneak through without a response.

    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, overwhelm them with BS is exactly who and how Trump is. That's what makes him infinitely more unfit to be president than even a squirrel with severe brain damage.

    Biden didn't have enough speaking time to fact check every lie Trump told and also talk about what he wanted to talk about. It wasn't possible. Based on Biden's reaction his campaign had no idea CNN was going to completely ignore age old debate moderator's responsibilities and tradition.
     
    I do understand that I and mentioned during the debate how much it helps Trump to be able to just straight up lie like he was doing with no pushback from the moderators... I just don't believe that's the entirety of the reason that he struggled so mightily... Probably added to it, but he started off things very poorly and just generally looked bad and it didn't get better.
    I don't think it was the entirety either. I do think it was a significant contribution and I think if the moderators do their duty and push back on Trump, Biden would have made a better impression on a lot of people.
     
    Blame me as well. I called him out earlier even though he didn't make the original comment. My best friends Mother died from dementia. She would ask her children to rewind tapes of movies she had just finished watching. She couldn't remember she had just watched it, It's a horrible way to say goodbye to someone. Biden had a bad night,but he is not suffering from dementia or alzheimers.
    It is terrible. My stepfather died this past summer from frontotemporal dementia. His communication skills were lost before any loss of memory symptoms presented. He could still play the hell out of sudoku a long time after he lost the ability understand words and I'm glad he had that as a distraction.

    It's devastating for everyone and I know and feel your pain.
     
    How many MAGAs would visit CNN's website? I can't imagine many do. They're FNC and Orly Taitz type viewers and readers. I mean, my MAGA neighbor and longtime friend wouldn't get caught dead reading/watching CNN.
    That poll was from Smerconish.com wasn't it?

    Smerconish is one of the few CNN commentators that Republicans like a little bit, because Smerconish leans Republican on CNN. I'm not familiar with his website, but he probably has a decent amount of traffic from Repbulicans.

    The problem with any internet polls is there is not controlling for equal demographic representation and a lot of times there's not even any controls to keep the same person from taking the poll multiple times.
     

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