First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    I think it was agreed in advance that the moderators were not going to fact check. It wasn’t the moderators’ job to fact check. Biden had to do it.

    It’s a terrible format that Biden’s team should have never agreed to, or any other candidate for that matter. No notes. No contact with staff. Most people can’t remember a wide array of exact data and be able to recall it under pressure and a time limit.

    Trump “won” precisely because facts didn’t matter.
     
    I think it was agreed in advance that the moderators were not going to fact check. It wasn’t the moderators’ job to fact check. Biden had to do it.
    If you're running for U.S. President, you should be able to perform a modicum of fact checking, have the ability to pivot your answer from the question to a subject you want to talk about, and put together coherent thoughts in a persuasive manner.
     
    I know. More so it’s a commentary on how vapid our society is. We are essentially rewarding a candidate for being an orange-faced, dishonest, blowhard because that’s just who he is. The expectations are higher for his opponents. Anybody in the media calling for Biden to step down should at least be doing the same of Trump. The only reason Trump is a perceived winner in that debate is because too many people have decided dishonesty and vitriol are okay. Trump couldn’t win a fact-based, rational debate against anybody, so is he really a better candidate?

    The debate was a crap-show for both candidates and CNN. Yet all criticism of Trump is an aside to the piling on of Biden.
    Many are calling for Biden to step down because we don’t think he can beat Trump. These are Democrats and anti-Trumpers. Trump won’t listen to their calls for him to step down.
     
    If you're running for U.S. President, you should be able to perform a modicum of fact checking, have the ability to pivot your answer from the question to a subject you want to talk about, and put together coherent thoughts in a persuasive manner.

    This I agree with.

    It was a format that set an honest, old man up to fail, though. That’s on his staff.

    Edit: just like a fact-checked format would have set Trump up to fail.

    Neither of these men are quick on their feet but when one of them is comfortable with saying what-the-hell-ever, and people just accept that, the other is going to come off looking worse.
     
    Exactly
    It’s a terrible format that Biden’s team should have never agreed to, or any other candidate for that matter. No notes. No contact with staff. Most people can’t remember a wide array of exact data and be able to recall it under pressure and a time limit.

    Trump “won” precisely because facts didn’t matter.

    Exactly. Policy, record, and substance should matter more than what amounts to a glorified beauty contest, but American voters are American voters.
     
    I don't think the moderators were allowed to push back on the lies. That was likely a stipulation for hosting the debate. That said, there was nothing preventing Biden from addressing the lies. That's his job anyway.

    When the opponent throw 20 lies at you every time he gets to talk then that can totally break even an experienced and trained debator. I did a lot of debating in college and Gish Gallop was instant disqualification at more than one tournament.
     
    I know. More so it’s a commentary on how vapid our society is. We are essentially rewarding a candidate for being an orange-faced, dishonest, blowhard because that’s just who he is. The expectations are higher for his opponents. Anybody in the media calling for Biden to step down should at least be doing the same of Trump. The only reason Trump is a perceived winner in that debate is because too many people have decided dishonesty and vitriol are okay. Trump couldn’t win a fact-based, rational debate against anybody, so is he really a better candidate?

    The debate was a crap-show for both candidates and CNN. Yet all criticism of Trump is an aside to the piling on of Biden.
    No doubt. Clearly Trump shouldn't be running at all. The Republican party is an embarrassment for allowing it to happen.
     
    Are they watching or paying attention to Smerconish? I just don’t see the average Democrat investing part of their media time into somebody who is going to be ideologically opposed to a lot of what they support. Most people aren’t spending a lot of time regularly listening to pundits on the other side.

    Online polls tend to be one of the least reliable metrics anyway, since little information is known about respondents or their motives. Pretty easy to troll and manipulate results.
    I don't know, but I do know that not a lot of conservatives watch CNN.
     
    I don't know, but I do know that not a lot of conservatives watch CNN.

    I don’t really know who makes up CNN’s audience. More mixed than its competitors but not sure how that breaks down.

    My point was that Smerconish is a Republican with an established off-network presence. I wouldn’t assume that polling on his own website largely pulls in CNN Democrats. It might, but that would really surprise me.
     
    When the opponent throw 20 lies at you every time he gets to talk then that can totally break even an experienced and trained debator. I did a lot of debating in college and Gish Gallop was instant disqualification at more than one tournament.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm explaining that the moderators were not allowed to push back or fact check. They could only ask questions. It was up to Biden to do the fact checking. It's a tall task for anyone, sure, but he should have know this is what Trump would do and prepared for it.

    Fwiw, Biden’s campaign team should never have agreed to those rules.
     
    I don’t really know who makes up CNN’s audience. More mixed than its competitors but not sure how that breaks down.

    My point was that Smerconish is a Republican with an established off-network presence. I wouldn’t assume that polling on his own website largely pulls in CNN Democrats. It might, but that would really surprise me.
    He hosts Democrats on his show all the time. I watch him every now and then and he's pretty much a straight shooter and I think a lot of Democrats like that about him. He's long been a tough critic of Trump. I'd bet money he gets more Democrats watching his show than Republicans by a mile.
     
    I didn’t go back to sort through that part of the discussion but Biden made a public stop at a Waffle House after the debate. Obviously that’s a low effort and pressure setting, but that would have been an easy stop to avoid if his people felt like they needed to protect him. Any public appearance is a risk if they are trying to hide something about the state of his health.
    I still don’t understand why they would take him out to Waffle House in the middle of the night (in order to interact with people) if he had a cold.

    Something doesn’t smell right.

    It gives me major “Beto air drumming in the Whataburger drive through” vibes.
     
    He hosts Democrats on his show all the time. I watch him every now and then and he's pretty much a straight shooter and I think a lot of Democrats like that about him. He's long been a tough critic of Trump. I'd bet money he gets more Democrats watching his show than Republicans by a mile.

    It’s purely anecdotal but I never hear about him or see him referenced in any of the political pages, groups, or other circles I regularly participate in. You’re a conservative, I’m not, so… ;)

    It really doesn’t matter. I know there are people on the Left who want Biden replaced so I’m not saying it isn’t happening or showing up in polling. I’m just not going to put a lot of concern into something associated with a Republican pundit.
     
    I still don’t understand why they would take him out to Waffle House in the middle of the night (in order to interact with people) if he had a cold.

    Something doesn’t smell right.

    It gives me major “Beto air drumming in the Whataburger drive through” vibes.

    It’s Waffle House. The cold virus doesn’t stand a chance.

    Maybe his doctors didn’t feel like he was contagious but the reports it was an even a cold came from a “source”. Has it been verified? I’ve had seasonal allergy responses that mimic symptoms of a cold.

    Sources on the web, including the White House, reveal he’s a longtime allergy and asthma sufferer.
     
    It’s Waffle House. The cold virus doesn’t stand a chance.

    Maybe his doctors didn’t feel like he was contagious but the reports it was an even a cold came from a “source”. Has it been verified? I’ve had seasonal allergy responses that mimic symptoms of a cold.

    Sources on the web, including the White House, reveal he’s a longtime allergy and asthma sufferer.
    once again that excuse doesn't cut the mustard. He was terrible in the debate. No way to sugar coat it.
     
    once again that excuse doesn't cut the mustard. He was terrible in the debate. No way to sugar coat it.

    I’m not, and haven’t, excused his performance in the debate. I was responding to a comment about whether he had a cold.

    Edit: my position is that both candidates were awful in the debate, in their own way. Only one of them is being heavily criticized.
     
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    It’s purely anecdotal but I never hear about him or see him referenced in any of the political pages, groups, or other circles I regularly participate in. You’re a conservative, I’m not, so… ;)

    It really doesn’t matter. I know there are people on the Left who want Biden replaced so I’m not saying it isn’t happening or showing up in polling. I’m just not going to put a lot of concern into something associated with a Republican pundit.
    Well, I'm not either. I'm just saying it's out there, that's really all.

    There have been several Democrats here who weren't happy with Biden’s debate and are a bit worried the way forward and with good reason. We'll see.
     
    Well, I'm not either. I'm just saying it's out there, that's really all.

    There have been several Democrats here who weren't happy with Biden’s debate and are a bit worried the way forward and with good reason. We'll see.

    More than several, for sure.

    I think reality set in that we are really choosing between two old men who should be retired already.

    My only real concern is in how it makes others feel. I already don’t think Trump did a lot of hands-on governing and I don’t care if Biden doesn’t or can’t (but those who work with him swear that’s not the case). I care about who they will surround themselves with and I trust Biden there. Trump will surround himself with the worst people imaginable who will work to dismantle our government, harm people, and have their malicious actions backed-up by a compromised and politicized SCOTUS.
     

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