First presidential debate (3 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    Bill Clinton has a quote (not sure from when)

    Basically was this:

    “A lot of people prefer someone who is strong and wrong versus weak and right”

    I do believe that to be a sad truth

    IMG_8766.jpeg
     
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    Where is this Michelle Obama talk coming from?

    She’s made it plain as can be that she has zero political aspirations
    It's just because she's the one person out there who most everyone believes Trump would have no chance against.

    I know it's not going to happen but like I said before.. she would only have to give up five months of her life and then immediately resign and she could go back to doing exactly what she's doing now.
     
    Ok, the missing part is here.

    This will work, Biden did a rope-a-dope to the old fat Criminal. Far from losing this debate he won the election. He's taken away the one issue that he couldn't deal with any other way. It was like he was picking the legs off of an insect. O've enjoyed watching Biden work over the years.

    Once the furor dies down, one week I would guess, this """too old""" to be President shirt, when both candidates are about the same age has always been for the lizards. The Criminal's gang are the lizards.

    I had been wondering about Biden's facial expression during that debate. Now I know what that was about, he was throwing the old Criminal right where he wanted him, pitching him hard into the ropes. And now he whalloped the Criminal when he bounced back from the ropes.

    Now that I've seen another performance by Biden which was a few hours later, and one which he had to travel for, it's apparent that Biden used makeup so that he looked really old and sick. he threw this debate on purpose. That's the part which makes this work.


    I'm happy now. Biden's the old pro and now he's shown me he still has it !!! Expect the unexpected from Biden.
    I'm not following your thinking.

    As I understand it, Biden's camp wanted this debate to (1) neuter the "he's senile" narrative, and (2) contrast him with Trump to make it about Trump being "unfit."

    Do you think either goal was accomplished? Biden looked old, sounded old, lost his train of thought multiple times, said he "beat Medicare" for crying out loud, and was completely ineffective in calling out Trump's predictable, constant lying. Trump said a bunch of lies and plenty of gibberish of his own, but from a standpoint of how he "projected" to an audience, he clearly won.

    Nothing changed for me, because based on my priorities, I'd vote for one of my dogs to be President over Trump. But Biden's performance was a complete debacle and there's no way to sugarcoat it. If you see it differently, I need you to explain it to me, because I'd love to be positive about what happened last night.
     
    I'm not following your thinking.

    As I understand it, Biden's camp wanted this debate to (1) neuter the "he's senile" narrative, and (2) contrast him with Trump to make it about Trump being "unfit."

    Do you think either goal was accomplished? Biden looked old, sounded old, lost his train of thought multiple times, said he "beat Medicare" for crying out loud, and was completely ineffective in calling out Trump's predictable, constant lying. Trump said a bunch of lies and plenty of gibberish of his own, but from a standpoint of how he "projected" to an audience, he clearly won.

    Nothing changed for me, because based on my priorities, I'd vote for one of my dogs to be President over Trump. But Biden's performance was a complete debacle and there's no way to sugarcoat it. If you see it differently, I need you to explain it to me, because I'd love to be positive about what happened last night.
    There's a 0% chance that Biden threw that debate on purpose. 0.
     
    There's a 0% chance that Biden threw that debate on purpose. 0.
    Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. MAGA people are going to vote for Trump even if he murders a child, and people like me are voting for Biden even if things like last night happened. So we're talking about independents and undecideds, and the polls show their main concern is age. Not only did they not put that issue to rest - they amplified it. I can't imagine any reality in which that's what the Biden campaign intended.
     
    Biden is done.
    More cries of wolf from a a self-admitted cynic who doesn't think everyone should have the right to vote or a say in the government and doesn't care what anyone else thinks about anything.

    Of course someone like you is going to cry that Biden is done. Fortunately, your opinion won't be the deciding factor on that. You're not a typical representation of how and what the majority of people think. You're an outlier.
     
    Joe Biden is an 81 year old in decline and the intensity of the job will or only accelerate that decline.

    A Gavin Newsom type would win handily.
    No, Gavin Newsom would not win handily at this stage. He probably would have if he had been campaigning all this time, but he can't win now. You obviously have no idea how campaigns are run and how campaign financing rules work.

    Newsom doesn't have a dime to spend to campaign with. He can't use money from his campaign for governor and he can't touch the money that Biden and Harris have collected. No one can win a presidential race without that money.

    The people you get your ideas and opinions from want Biden replaced, because they know that replacing Biden right now would guarantee Trump wins. If they knew that Biden staying in the race guaranteed Trump would win, they would be telling you to believe that Biden should stay in the race and people are being unfair to him.
     
    Reactions to the debate are highlighting a real problem in this country. Focus is heavily slanted towards the bad showing that Biden had, with criticism of Trump pretty much an obligatory aside to that. Trump was awful, too. We have so normalized Trump's dishonesty and lunacy that we expect it and aren't shocked by it. It should still be shocking. This puts any challenge and challenger to Trump at a real disadvantage, because we maintain a higher bar for whom and what opposes him. We expect more and when it isn't delivered, we hyper focus on that disappointment. Meanwhile, the grifter slithers away to a collective "that's just who he is."

    Count me among the concerned because I have no reason to trust Americans to choose substance over style, even when that style is bombastic and represents an existential threat to our nation. So I get it. But we have to acknowledge that a grossly uneven field has been created where we expect almost nothing of Trump while we carefully scrutinize Biden.

    Neither are good candidates nor compelling speakers but Biden is still a decent human, who has formed an administration that is working to make lives better for more people - certainly in stark contrast to anything Trump did or offers - and the outcome of the election still matters a great deal.
    Thank you. I only have this to add in support of what you said.

    Overall Trump grade: F​

    You simply can’t lie in debates as often as Trump does if the activity is to be taken seriously.

    Overall Biden grade: F​

    Playing into stereotypes and criticisms, Biden had a worse night than Trump. But neither would get my vote based on this debate.


    The debate was a loss for both, unless one is full subscribed to the dynamics of the cult of personality.

    I personally will choose an honest unpolished public speaker over a lying, corrupt and self-serving smooth talker. I hope the majority of voters think the same way.
     
    All due respect to him, one isn't like the other. This isn't for a Congressional seat. This is for the White House.
    All due respect to you, his point about the inaccuracy of polling is exactly the same and applies. Polling at the local, state and federal levels have been inaccurate for a long time, including presidential races.
     
    Thank you. I only have this to add in support of what you said.




    The debate was a loss for both, unless one is full subscribed to the dynamics of the cult of personality.

    I personally will choose an honest unpolished public speaker over a lying, corrupt and self-serving smooth talker. I hope the majority of voters think the same way.
    The problem is elections by and large are popularity contests, and the nearly always vote for the man and not necessarily the platform. Reagan's personality won him 2 terms. HWB vs Dukakis...HWB vs Clinton...Dole vs Clinton...Bush vs Gore...Bush vs Kerry...McCain vs Obama...Romney vs Obama.

    What's the common thread? In nearly every case the guy with the bigger personality wins the election. Biden defeating Trump in 2020 was actually the exception. Whether that that happens again in 2024, who knows, but Biden is gonna have to prove last night was a fluke and show that he's up to the grind of the campaign for the next 5 months. We'll see.
     
    All due respect to you, his point about the inaccuracy of polling is exactly the same and applies. Polling at the local, state and federal levels have been inaccurate for a long time, including presidential races.
    That doesn't counter the fact that Congrassional seats aren't the same as the WH, and he knows that.

    The polls are the polls, and yes they're highly unreliable. They break wrong both ways. They were completely wrong in 2016, and wrong again in 2020. I think the Democrats definitely have some built in advantages in 2024, but not so much so that we can take anything for granted.
     
    The problem is elections by and large are popularity contests, and the nearly always vote for the man and not necessarily the platform.
    And historically when those voters were asked why they voted for who they voted for, "they won that debate" is never a reason given.

    The debates is not how the popularity contest are won. Reagan won because they corruptly kept the hostages from being released until they could take credit for their release close to election day. The Dukakis on the tank image came for a campaign stop, not a debate. Trump beat Hilary because of Comey, not because of the debates.
     
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    That doesn't counter the fact that Congrassional seats aren't the same as the WH, and he knows that.
    It's a good thing that me pointing out he was focused on not getting panicked about polling numbers had nothing to do with countering that Congressional races aren't the same as the White House. Those are obviously not the same.

    To be absolutely clear, running for and being in Congress is different from running for and being president. That's pretty obvious, isn't it?

    What is the same, as I pointed out that Futterman pointed out, is that polling numbers cannot be trusted and people shouldn't panic over them.
     
    And historically when those voters were asked why they voted for who they voted for, "they won that debate" is never a reason given.

    The debates is not how the popularity contest are won. Reagan won because they corruptly kept the hostages from being released until they could take credit for their release close to election day. The Dukakis on the tank image came for a campaign stop, not a debate. Trump beat Hilary because of Comey, not because of the debates.
    I've already said multiple times that the debate isn't deciding the election. What the debate is doing though is setting the table for what is to come.

    By all accounts, Biden was terrible last night. He's going to have to prove it was a fluke and that he'll be on point over the next 5 months. He's simply got less goodwill now than he did before the debate. He could rebuild that goodwill, but easier said than done.

    I'm not optimistic because he's not getting any younger. I don't feel confident at all that he'll last 5 more years at this pace and work load. Time will tell.
     
    I've already said multiple times that the debate isn't deciding the election. What the debate is doing though is setting the table for what is to come.

    By all accounts, Biden was terrible last night. He's going to have to prove it was a fluke and that he'll be on point over the next 5 months. He's simply got less goodwill now than he did before the debate. He could rebuild that goodwill, but easier said than done.

    I'm not optimistic because he's not getting any younger. I don't feel confident at all that he'll last 5 more years at this pace and work load. Time will tell.
    I know your views on aging all to well.
     
    It's a good thing that me pointing out he was focused on not getting panicked about polling numbers had nothing to do with countering that Congressional races aren't the same as the White House. Those are obviously not the same.

    To be absolutely clear, running for and being in Congress is different from running for and being president. That's pretty obvious, isn't it?

    What is the same, as I pointed out that Futterman pointed out, is that polling numbers cannot be trusted and people shouldn't panic over them.
    Maybe some people are panicking about the polls, but I think he's misreading why they're panicking. The panicking is because we all saw the same debate and that did nothing to inspire anyone's confidence. That debate at minimum should make you question whether he's actually fit to be President 5 more years.

    I'm gonna vote for Biden, but I'm not exactly feeling confident about it.
     
    And historically when those voters were asked why they voted for who they voted for, "they won that debate" is never a reason given.

    The debates is not how the popularity contest are won. Reagan won because they corruptly kept the hostages from being released until they could take credit for their release close to election day. The Dukakis on the tank image came for a campaign stop, not a debate. Trump beat Hilary because of Comey, not because of the debates.
    What you're overlooking, though, is that it's not just about one debate. The primary concern of persuadable voters about Biden is his age. Yeah, Trump's only 3 years younger, but people don't perceive his age as a problem. The debate pretty clearly brought Biden's age issue front and center in the most negative way possible.

    Regarding your contention that it's impossible to switch horses now, I think you have good points, but I don't know that I agree with the conclusion. Here's the thing: There are a LOT of people who dislike Trump and just need a good enough reason to vote for someone else... anyone else.

    Sarah Longwell on The Bulwark podcast made a case for a Shapiro and Whitmer ticket. She said, sure, they have little name recognition nationally, but where they do have name recognition? Pennsylvania and Michigan.

    Here's where I am. If Biden is incapable of turning this around and him losing to Trump is, fundamentally, inevitable, we may as well go with some Plan B.
     

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