First presidential debate (5 Viewers)

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Optimus Prime

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Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

 
First off Dems don't have to blame themselves for Trump. The people that vote for him are to blame. I digress.

This was an unmitigated disaster I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.

Debates are prize fights - substance matters but style can be the most important (see JFK vs Nixon for historical reference). The optics last night could not have been worse for Joe.

Trump was a baboon; verbally throwing shirt at the wall and he came off better. A lot better. Which is almost inconceivable unless you look at who he faced

Joe just confirmed everyone's fear. I am one of Joe's biggest supporters here. He has exceeded my expectations as a president, and I love Joe Biden as a person. He's a great man, caring and compassionate. He saved us from Trump in 2020. But he just can't do it for five more years. That was obvious last night.

The Biden Team wanted last night, it was their move to have it so early. They made this bed. They have to lie in it for the good of the nation. Barack needs to be talking to him right now about stepping aside.

He won't, shouldn't and can't be removed from the ticket; but he needs to step aside.

He said last night he ran in 2020 because he saw what Trump was doing and how he is a threat to the country. He was right and that is why He needs to not run now- for the same reason.

Say his health has deteriorated. I don't think anyone who saw last night would disagree.

Decisions need to be made. Trump is so damaged you can switch horses mid race. It's June, I don't want to hear one time about unprecedented either. This is all unprecedented.

I also am not going to buy the "it's only a debate" argument. Michael Dukakis only got into a tank in a big helmet and Howard Dean only yelled.

If Biden steps aside and endorses his predecessor, he isn't going to lose anyone who was going to vote for Biden. Nobody is suddenly voting for Trump. But it might invigorate youth and those who wanted a different choice however.

I think you tap Gavin Newsom and keep Harris on the ticket. He's a young, Christian male who is the Gov. of the world's fifth largest economy with a population bigger than Germany. He has the chops and no demons that wouldn't have been uncovered on his rise to Governor. Trump wouldn't dare debate him. I would have called my self an idiot for saying that yesterday btw.

If Biden runs, Trump will win again. The R's absolutely push for the other two debates and Joe can't back out now. Every slip is going to be magnified. It's June he's going to make more mistakes before November.

His performance is going to be run 24 hours a day by Fox News. His age was already THE problem for jeebus sakes.

I wanted him to do well. I thought that a good performance could give him a cushion that couldn't be recovered from. I will vote for him if he is the nominee. And he will lose. And so will Ukraine and all of Europe. And the Supreme Court will be lost for generations.

Reuter's had their watch party with 13 undecideds - 7 of those are now voting for Trump. Their reasoning was that Biden isn't up for another four years.

"God forbid these are my choices. I would rather vote for a liar and a convict than someone who isn't all there." is the phrase used in the Reuter's article. Three others said they would abstain. That is the malignant problem: abstention.



There's a lot there I agree with and other points I can't convincingly argue against.

If somebody could convince me there is a viable path forward with a candidate change - that has to start with a willingness from Biden to step aside - it wouldn't be hard for me to get onboard with the idea. (I'll vote for any Democrat, regardless).

My wife and I gave up on the debate and went for a walk. We agreed that Newsom would have eviscerated Trump. But that's never really been Biden's game, anyway, between being the Washington nice-guy (who Graham once admired deeply) to being a poor speaker.

Kamala would have lit Trump up, also. She's sharp and that skill falls directly into her background. I just don't know that I trust Americans to elect the first female president under what would be an extraordinary set of circumstances if she were to rise to the top of the ticket.
 
I'm not exonerating the party but it's rare to have a strong primary challenger against an incumbent, so how we got here is pretty normal. We've had a president who, by a lot of accounts, has been doing a good job. If the people who are closest to him are ignoring some serious red flags, then that's something I hope powerbrokers can intervene on, but I don't think there have been credible murmurs, even, from people interacting with him regularly, that he's too senile to continue. Also, rapid decline can occur and both candidates are at that age. If that's what is happening, I hope there's another way forward.

You can, of course, place blame wherever you want and we can disagree about that.

There have been numerous opportunities to stop Trump, but his party and his supporters have declined every time.
I don't think the debate indicates senility, but it does indicate a decline. In the past, he was much more agile in his responses. That decline indication is what magnifies concerns about Biden. Trump seems to be the same person he was in 2016, and Biden barely beat him in 2020. Any added doubts and evidence of decline is going to shift some votes either toward Trump or be lost somehow. The race is too close to lose any votes. Like Coldseat said, it is not too late to get another candidate, because everyone that was planning to vote for Biden, despite the misgivings, will still vote for that new candidate, because people are either voting against Trump or for the Democrat, regardless of the candidate, but a new candidate will motivate many more people to vote for the Democratic candidate. I think a new Democratic candidate, even Kamala, would win. Practically no one that was voting for Biden as a vote against Trump, will be turned off by Kamala; however there are many more that aren't going to vote due to misgivings about Biden, that will come out to vote for a new candidate, even for Kamala.
 
Biden is going to prove everybody wrong soon. He'll get on tv with the white house physician and they'll perform "Puttin' on the Ritz" to show how physically fit and mentally sharp he is.

I'd probably vote for a corpse before I vote for Trump. He already had a shot. If he was going to do anything that he said he would do, he would have done it when he was already president.

Same for Biden though. He has had 3.5 years as Prez. Fix Medicare and social security. Why wait?
There are many people that would vote for a corpse, rather than voting for Trump, but the problem is that there appears to be an electoral majority that won't vote for a corpse. The question is what do the middle gettable voters think, and it appears that many of those voters aren't willing to vote for a corpse, and Biden appeared too corpse-like yesterday. Trump is many terrible things, but he doesn't appear corpse-like.
 
I don't think the debate indicates senility, but it does indicate a decline. In the past, he was much more agile in his responses. That decline indication is what magnifies concerns about Biden. Trump seems to be the same person he was in 2016, and Biden barely beat him in 2020. Any added doubts and evidence of decline is going to shift some votes either toward Trump or be lost somehow. The race is too close to lose any votes. Like Coldseat said, it is not too late to get another candidate, because everyone that was planning to vote for Biden, despite the misgivings, will still vote for that new candidate, because people are either voting against Trump or for the Democrat, regardless of the candidate, but a new candidate will motivate many more people to vote for the Democratic candidate. I think a new Democratic candidate, even Kamala, would win. Practically no one that was voting for Biden as a vote against Trump, will be turned off by Kamala; however there are many more that aren't going to vote due to misgivings about Biden, that will come out to vote for a new candidate, even for Kamala.

Yes, I realize the circumstances (and the stakes of the election) set the conditions to consider the idea of a change. I think, even though there isn't a lot of time, there is still time for Biden and the party to weigh the future and their options. There's also time for those around him, and for powerbrokers, to get a sense if it was a bad night or something much more concerning.

I will admit that I've never been very comfortable listening to Biden speak. It's just not a gift of his like it is for Obama or was for Reagan. He's always been stiff, halting, and has to contend with a speech impediment. His words trail, he stumbles, there's no strong cadence or well-timed inflection. But even so, last night was concerning.
 
IMG_8767.jpeg
 
Anyone who came away from that debate saying that Biden won is drinking way too much kool-aid. It was a nightmare debate.

That’s not to say Trump isn’t a crook, or that he wasn’t spitting out lies at an Olympic record pace, because he is and he did.

The debate was a mess, and compared to Obama vs Romney (the last real presidential debate of our era), this was just monkeys throwing shirt at a wall.
Who are you to be deciding when I've had too much Gatorade???

Do you know anything about expectations in politics? Now is the time for Biden to lower the expectations as a necessity to get folks off of their duff.

Four years and two months ago Biden threw a primary debate performance at just the correct time in essence for the same lowering of expectations.

I was at a Democratic party to watch that debate with the locals here. Their reactions then were about the same as they are here. I will point out that it worked, he won the primary after having been ruled out after that debate. Ruled out except for me.

I told them I thought Biden would win the primary, and not only did I say that, I went on to say that he and Harris were working together and that she and he would go on to win the general election. That happened shortly after Harris had dropped out of the primary race upon her own. She was my first pick and Biden was my second pick.
 
I feel as though the media is also responsible for Biden’s performance in that, for the most part, they have treated Biden with kid gloves (at least I can’t recall a feet to the fire situation), and they has caused him to not be on his toes with responses.

Had he spent more time under the hot lamp of journalism (and not just a week tucked away preparing for last nights debate), I feel we all could have seen a better showing from him, and not just him catching some hands last night.
 
First off Dems don't have to blame themselves for Trump. The people that vote for him are to blame. I digress.

This was an unmitigated disaster I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.

Debates are prize fights - substance matters but style can be the most important (see JFK vs Nixon for historical reference). The optics last night could not have been worse for Joe.

Trump was a baboon; verbally throwing shirt at the wall and he came off better. A lot better. Which is almost inconceivable unless you look at who he faced

Joe just confirmed everyone's fear. I am one of Joe's biggest supporters here. He has exceeded my expectations as a president, and I love Joe Biden as a person. He's a great man, caring and compassionate. He saved us from Trump in 2020. But he just can't do it for five more years. That was obvious last night.

The Biden Team wanted last night, it was their move to have it so early. They made this bed. They have to lie in it for the good of the nation. Barack needs to be talking to him right now about stepping aside.

He won't, shouldn't and can't be removed from the ticket; but he needs to step aside.

He said last night he ran in 2020 because he saw what Trump was doing and how he is a threat to the country. He was right and that is why He needs to not run now- for the same reason.

Say his health has deteriorated. I don't think anyone who saw last night would disagree.

Decisions need to be made. Trump is so damaged you can switch horses mid race. It's June, I don't want to hear one time about unprecedented either. This is all unprecedented.

I also am not going to buy the "it's only a debate" argument. Michael Dukakis only got into a tank in a big helmet and Howard Dean only yelled.

If Biden steps aside and endorses his predecessor, he isn't going to lose anyone who was going to vote for Biden. Nobody is suddenly voting for Trump. But it might invigorate youth and those who wanted a different choice however.

I think you tap Gavin Newsom and keep Harris on the ticket. He's a young, Christian male who is the Gov. of the world's fifth largest economy with a population bigger than Germany. He has the chops and no demons that wouldn't have been uncovered on his rise to Governor. Trump wouldn't dare debate him. I would have called my self an idiot for saying that yesterday btw.

If Biden runs, Trump will win again. The R's absolutely push for the other two debates and Joe can't back out now. Every slip is going to be magnified. It's June he's going to make more mistakes before November.

His performance is going to be run 24 hours a day by Fox News. His age was already THE problem for jeebus sakes.

I wanted him to do well. I thought that a good performance could give him a cushion that couldn't be recovered from. I will vote for him if he is the nominee. And he will lose. And so will Ukraine and all of Europe. And the Supreme Court will be lost for generations.

Reuter's had their watch party with 13 undecideds - 7 of those are now voting for Trump. Their reasoning was that Biden isn't up for another four years.

"God forbid these are my choices. I would rather vote for a liar and a convict than someone who isn't all there." is the phrase used in the Reuter's article. Three others said they would abstain. That is the malignant problem: abstention.


The move might be to thrust Kamala Harris forward. That or just a general lowering of expectations at this point in time.

I think that her becoming President has been a part of their agreement going back to the 2020 election.

That would be fine with me in that she was my first pick anyway in 2020.


However I don't think he will quit, will retire, but he might, and if he does it will have been planned in advance. Throwing this debate would be a part of that plan.

The last debate Harris did was thrown so that she could attack Biden, which was something necessary for her to do to help him overcome on old bussing issue from far in his past.

When I saw her do that i knew they were working together. That she would be his VP pick 4 months before she did become his VP pick.


So a general question for everyone to answer. There are actually two choices nested with two more choices here to be considered.

It boils down one of two ways, it being both Biden and Harris together if Biden stays, vs. the Criminal. The other way is if it is time for Harris to move forward then it will be Harris vs. the Criminal.

So the question is how are you all about Kamala Harris?

She's the front of the line behind Biden, and there is no one behind her at this time who has the resources to go forward except for her. It would be about the same thing as if he were to suddenly die. She is the VP after all. That's why she is there.
 
The move might be to thrust Kamala Harris forward. That or just a general lowering of expectations at this point in time.

I think that her becoming President has been a part of their agreement going back to the 2020 election.

That would be fine with me in that she was my first pick anyway in 2020.


However I don't think he will quit, will retire, but he might, and if he does it will have been planned in advance. Throwing this debate would be a part of that plan.

The last debate Harris did was thrown so that she could attack Biden, which was something necessary for her to do to help him overcome on old bussing issue from far in his past.

When I saw her do that i knew they were working together. That she would be his VP pick 4 months before she did become his VP pick.


So a general question for everyone to answer. There are actually two choices nested with two more choices here to be considered.

It boils down one of two ways, it being both Biden and Harris together if Biden stays, vs. the Criminal. The other way is if it is time for Harris to move forward then it will be Harris vs. the Criminal.

So the question is how are you all about Kamala Harris?

She's the front of the line behind Biden, and there is no one behind her at this time who has the resources to go forward except for her. It would be about the same thing as if he were to suddenly die. She is the VP after all. That's why she is there.
I'd be fine if Harris were thrust into the presidency, she's competent and sane, and a committed public servant. But I don't think she would have a prayer of getting elected at the top of the ticket.

And as far as having an agreement about her becoming President, that's not how it works. They could have had an agreement about supporting her after his term(s) ended, but if you don't get the votes then you don't get the office, and I can't see a minority woman doing that at this point in our country's history.
 
They asked a group of 13

Seven of the nine voters who were dismayed by Biden's performance told Reuters they were now leaning towards Trump, because they no longer believe Biden can perform his duties as president
There's that concern, pushing fence sitters in the other direction because he doesn't look up to the job anymore, but also the potential of people who would never vote for Trump just opting not to bother voting.
 
There's that concern, pushing fence sitters in the other direction because he doesn't look up to the job anymore, but also the potential of people who would never vote for Trump just opting not to bother voting.

it was a small sample size, but I wonder about a few things:

A. what % of total voters are undecided at this point?
B. if a large % of them stayed home and not vote, would it help or harm trump or biden more?
C. would a large % of them voting 3rd party help or harm trump or biden more?
 
I don't know who on the DNC thought this was a good idea.
It doesn't matter what Trump says, or how he looks, or what he did or didn't. Republicans are going to vote for him no matter what.

On the other hand, the Holier Than Thou Democrats, who demand purity (Gaza, immigration, LGBTQ+, etc) will find reasons to be offended and waste their vote on the Green Party or not vote at all, not understanding what this election is about, or the ramifications of a 2nd Trump presidency.

I believe the last hope is women, voting to regain abortion rights.
 

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