First presidential debate (6 Viewers)

[Optimus Prime]

Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

“You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

PRESSURE ON BIDEN


The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

How Biden and Trump are taking very different approaches to preparing for next week's debate

President Joe Biden is beginning an intense period of private debate preparations at Camp David. His trip comes as officials in both parties scramble to set expectations for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

apnews.com

 

[el caliente]

During the first debate that year, Romney did much better than Obama, Obama had a cold.

Biden has a cold right now. And he's old right now. Factually he didn't just win the debate, he blew the Criminal out of contention.

There are actually people who are thinking about the old Criminal, instead of him for those infirmaries.

Did the lying Criminal impress you?

One person doesn't need to fix this, somewhere around half of voters in American need to break this Criminal's poison spell.

About half of Russians need to break their Criminal's poison spell Putin holds over them as well. Turkey has a problem as well.

Anyone who came away from that debate saying that Biden won is drinking way too much kool-aid. It was a nightmare debate.

That’s not to say Trump isn’t a crook, or that he wasn’t spitting out lies at an Olympic record pace, because he is and he did.

The debate was a mess, and compared to Obama vs Romney (the last real presidential debate of our era), this was just monkeys throwing shirt at a wall.

 

[Incumbent]

I don't disagree. A rock would be better than Trump. It's really not saying much, and actually quite telling that we even need to have the discussion. Any other smart and sharp politician would have wiped the floor with Trump and said more than "that's a lie!"

In politics, to a large degree, perception is reality. And many people perceive Trump to be stronger than Biden in multiple ways. He doesn't deserve it, but it is what it is.

Biden is going to be playing defense until election day and that's a recipe for disaster.

I share those concerns. More is expected of the Democratic Party, from both its supporters and its opposition. I also acknowledge that we are preserving that imbalance by demanding of Biden what we don't demand of Trump. This is the madness that got us to this point.

America isn't evolved enough to expect it to be different, I suppose.

 

[el caliente]

Honestly, if Trump wins this election the Democrats will have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[coldseat]

Honestly, if Trump wins this election the Democrats will have nobody to blame but themselves.

Why can't we blame American voters? We (collectively) are the ones that would vote Trump into office.

 

[Lapaz]

I watched about three quarters of the debate before I turned it off. Biden looked every bit of his 80-years of his age, obviously everybody saw it. Trump is a deranged lunatic that can only put together word salads or rambling streams of thoughts and lies. He was exactly that last night.

When the campaigning started to heat up, I had hoped Biden would hang it up and let another Democrat take the reigns'. When it was obvious Biden was going to run, I moved on from that. There's no sugar coating that this was a bad debate performance for Biden. He got lost, mumbled, quoted wrong numbers, trailed off into hazy thoughts, etc. He got things rights and made good points as well, but it just wasn't enough to put aside worries about his age. He can't really do anything to turn the reality/perception about his age around. He's going to have to lean into it, admit that he has some minor lapses at times as most 80-years olds do, but try to reassure voters the he's fully mentally there. I have my doubts that it will be effective in getting people to turn out and vote for him, but we'll see.

There's nothing much to say about Trump other than he's the whack job, narcissistic, unintelligible goon he's always been, now we can just add convicted criminal to it. I don't see how this debate helps him, but he and his cult are going to praise him no matter what and claim he won huge. I couldn't count how many times I said, "what the hell is he talking about" when Trump was speaking. It's like you need some special codex to understand his rambling, but even if you had it it still wouldn't make sense. If Biden doesn't inspire trust because of his age, Trump inspires even less due to his inability to think rationally and coherently.

Doesn't do anything to change my vote, but then again nothing would. I will never vote for Trump or 90% of the current Republicans. On substance, you still clearly want Biden leading the country between the two. But honestly given the lapses witnessed during the debate, that doesn't inspire much confidence. With Americans obsessed with influence culture and the fakeness of it all, the debate likely helps Trump, but I think only marginally.

As an aside, my 18-year old was watching with me and he was just aghast at how bad it was. He's demoralized that this is going to be his first election, but there's no way he's voting for Trump.

I agree with everything you said, but what I saw in Biden is a man that may not survive another term. It is a very demanding job that ages everyone. I think Biden still has his mind, and would make good decisions, but I think he would have to cut back on his schedule, and I think voters will have to be comfortable with Kamala finishing the term to vote for Biden.

 

[Lapaz]

Anyone who came away from that debate saying that Biden won is drinking way too much kool-aid. It was a nightmare debate.

That’s not to say Trump isn’t a crook, or that he wasn’t spitting out lies at an Olympic record pace, because he is and he did.

The debate was a mess, and compared to Obama vs Romney (the last real presidential debate of our era), this was just monkeys throwing shirt at a wall.

I know most of this board knows you're a conservative, so they may discount your message, but I appreciate that you're an honest conservative.

 

[Incumbent]

I watched about three quarters of the debate before I turned it off. Biden looked every bit of his 80-years of his age, obviously everybody saw it. Trump is a deranged lunatic that can only put together word salads or rambling streams of thoughts and lies. He was exactly that last night.

When the campaigning started to heat up, I had hoped Biden would hang it up and let another Democrat take the reigns'. When it was obvious Biden was going to run, I moved on from that. There's no sugar coating that this was a bad debate performance for Biden. He got lost, mumbled, quoted wrong numbers, trailed off into hazy thoughts, etc. He got things rights and made good points as well, but it just wasn't enough to put aside worries about his age. He can't really do anything to turn the reality/perception about his age around. He's going to have to lean into it, admit that he has some minor lapses at times as most 80-years olds do, but try to reassure voters the he's fully mentally there. I have my doubts that it will be effective in getting people to turn out and vote for him, but we'll see.

There's nothing much to say about Trump other than he's the whack job, narcissistic, unintelligible goon he's always been, now we can just add convicted criminal to it. I don't see how this debate helps him, but he and his cult are going to praise him no matter what and claim he won huge. I couldn't count how many times I said, "what the hell is he talking about" when Trump was speaking. It's like you need some special codex to understand his rambling, but even if you had it it still wouldn't make sense. If Biden doesn't inspire trust because of his age, Trump inspires even less due to his inability to think rationally and coherently.

Doesn't do anything to change my vote, but then again nothing would. I will never vote for Trump or 90% of the current Republicans. On substance, you still clearly want Biden leading the country between the two. But honestly given the lapses witnessed during the debate, that doesn't inspire much confidence. With Americans obsessed with influence culture and the fakeness of it all, the debate likely helps Trump, but I think only marginally.

As an aside, my 18-year old was watching with me and he was just aghast at how bad it was. He's demoralized that this is going to be his first election, but there's no way he's voting for Trump.

Good post.

A couple of thoughts. I think you're right that Dems are going to have get in front of the decline of both of these men and hammer away at the distinctions between them. More clever people than me can figure out how to message this in a way that could boost Biden.

You strike on something else I've mentioned and that is the uneven field these candidates are competing on. Trump's side will rally around him in a way that Biden's won't, even arguably, shouldn't. But that does impose a clear disadvantage. Now you have one candidate taking hits from both sides, while the other is afforded the leeway to bumble and stumble ahead. That's going to play into the perception some people have in trying to make a voting decision.

 

[Incumbent]

Honestly, if Trump wins this election the Democrats will have nobody to blame but themselves.

Sorry, that reads to me like you're letting the people off the hook who have propped Trump up (that's almost the entirety, now, of the elected Republican Party) and the people who have and continue to support him despite all the evidence against him from the very beginning.

Democrats own an important stake, but this is a lot more complex than blaming them, primarily, for a bad outcome.

Biden is the incumbent and his administration has done a lot of good in some very difficult times. It's easy to say the party should walk away from him after a debate that was a ****show for all involved, but the decision-making has to be a lot more involved than an impulse after a bad performance, in a setting where Biden has never really done well.

If the people closest to him really don't think he is up to the challenges, I hope they can get through to him, but he's absolutely not a worse candidate than the Project 25 felon and grifter he is running against.

 

[B4YOU]

Why can't we blame American voters? We (collectively) are the ones that would vote Trump into office.

There is a good chance Biden will “Ginsberg” the presidency. It looked like another person holding onto a position past the expiration date.

We need to set an age limit of 75 for national elected positions.

 

[Lapaz]

Why can't we blame American voters? We (collectively) are the ones that would vote Trump into office.

There are a bunch of hateful and selfish voters, mostly, but not exclusively on the right. Trump has the right locked down like a cult leader. That leaves the balance of voters floating between the Republican and the Democrat. The problem is that Democrats are too loyal to select the best. Hillary was a good candidate, but she had too much baggage. She got the nomination because of loyalty when she served Obama after losing the nomination. Biden got the nomination after he served Obama, and chose not to run against Hillary. Biden probably would've beaten Trump in 2016, since he was very sharp at the time, so his terms should've been in 2016 and 2020. We should've had another democrat at the top of the ticket. If not for the excessive Democratic party's loyalty, perhaps Republicans would have been forced back to sanity to have a chance to win, so perhaps they wouldn't be under Trump's spell, and they would have someone like Romney leading the ticket, and democracy would be safe for another generation.

 

[el caliente]

I know most of this board knows you're a conservative, so they may discount your message, but I appreciate that you're an honest conservative.

I’m fiscally conservative, that’s as conservative as I am, and as of the last 15 years there has been little offered from either side to curry my vote.

 

[Incumbent]

That reminds me of what I said last night.

I asked folks around here if I were the only Democrat on the board.

At that moment last night I was pretty sure I was the only Democrat who was posting here.

In all honestly, I thought Biden's presence last night was concerning and disappointing, so I understand the backlash. I still haven't watched it all and I might not. I just find the outrage is heavily one-sided in a way that only harms our nation even more.

I'm all for higher standards and expectations, but when confronted with a binary choice between two currently viable candidates, we all have to be able to sift through the concerns and disappointments to make the best decision we can. For me, that's still Biden as long as he's one of the two I'm choosing from. I have to hope enough others will come to the same understanding.

 

[CoolBrees]

First off Dems don't have to blame themselves for Trump. The people that vote for him are to blame. I digress.

This was an unmitigated disaster I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.

Debates are prize fights - substance matters but style can be the most important (see JFK vs Nixon for historical reference). The optics last night could not have been worse for Joe.

Trump was a baboon; verbally throwing shirt at the wall and he came off better. A lot better. Which is almost inconceivable unless you look at who he faced

Joe just confirmed everyone's fear. I am one of Joe's biggest supporters here. He has exceeded my expectations as a president, and I love Joe Biden as a person. He's a great man, caring and compassionate. He saved us from Trump in 2020. But he just can't do it for five more years. That was obvious last night.

The Biden Team wanted last night, it was their move to have it so early. They made this bed. They have to lie in it for the good of the nation. Barack needs to be talking to him right now about stepping aside.

He won't, shouldn't and can't be removed from the ticket; but he needs to step aside.

He said last night he ran in 2020 because he saw what Trump was doing and how he is a threat to the country. He was right and that is why He needs to not run now- for the same reason.

Say his health has deteriorated. I don't think anyone who saw last night would disagree.

Decisions need to be made. Trump is so damaged you can switch horses mid race. It's June, I don't want to hear one time about unprecedented either. This is all unprecedented.

I also am not going to buy the "it's only a debate" argument. Michael Dukakis only got into a tank in a big helmet and Howard Dean only yelled.

If Biden steps aside and endorses his predecessor, he isn't going to lose anyone who was going to vote for Biden. Nobody is suddenly voting for Trump. But it might invigorate youth and those who wanted a different choice however.

I think you tap Gavin Newsom and keep Harris on the ticket. He's a young, Christian male who is the Gov. of the world's fifth largest economy with a population bigger than Germany. He has the chops and no demons that wouldn't have been uncovered on his rise to Governor. Trump wouldn't dare debate him. I would have called my self an idiot for saying that yesterday btw.

If Biden runs, Trump will win again. The R's absolutely push for the other two debates and Joe can't back out now. Every slip is going to be magnified. It's June he's going to make more mistakes before November.

His performance is going to be run 24 hours a day by Fox News. His age was already THE problem for jeebus sakes.

I wanted him to do well. I thought that a good performance could give him a cushion that couldn't be recovered from. I will vote for him if he is the nominee. And he will lose. And so will Ukraine and all of Europe. And the Supreme Court will be lost for generations.

Reuter's had their watch party with 13 undecideds - 7 of those are now voting for Trump. Their reasoning was that Biden isn't up for another four years.

"God forbid these are my choices. I would rather vote for a liar and a convict than someone who isn't all there." is the phrase used in the Reuter's article. Three others said they would abstain. That is the malignant problem: abstention.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-presidential-debate-some-undecided-voters-see-disastrous-biden-night-2024-06-28/

 

[el caliente]

Sorry, that reads to me like you're letting the people off the hook who have propped Trump up (that's almost the entirety, now, of the elected Republican Party) and the people who have and continue to support him despite all the evidence against him from the very beginning.

Democrats own an important stake, but this is a lot more complex than blaming them, primarily, for a bad outcome.

Biden is the incumbent and his administration has done a lot of good in some very difficult times. It's easy to say the party should walk away from him after a debate that was a ****show for all involved, but the decision-making has to be a lot more involved than an impulse after a bad performance, in a setting where Biden has never really done well.

If the people closest to him really don't think he is up to the challenges, I hope they can get through to him, but he's absolutely not a worse candidate than the Project 25 felon and grifter he is running against.

The Democrats are clearly on the hook if Trump wins. They have had ample time to determine if Biden could generate enough enthusiasm to get a strong voter turnout. You know that Trump is going to have his minions voting for him no matter what, however there is still a good chunk of voters who would rather sit home than vote for either of these people. By providing a more compelling candidate the Democrats really could have placed the nail in the MAGA coffin.

 

[Lapaz]

There is a good chance Biden will “Ginsberg” the presidency. It looked like another person holding onto a position past the expiration date.

We need to set an age limit of 75 for national elected positions.

I totally agree with the Ginsberg analogy regarding not knowing when to step down, but I don't agree with the age limit. There are people that are still capable well past 75, but everyone ages differently, and it appears that Biden has almost reached his expiration date. Biden's refusal to recognize his expiration date is reminiscent to RBG's refusal to retire despite her poor health. I made that exact analogy to my wife yesterday. Both are selfish and conceited acts.

 

[coldseat]

There are a bunch of hateful and selfish voters, mostly, but not exclusively on the right. Trump has the right locked down like a cult leader. That leaves the balance of voters floating between the Republican and the Democrat. The problem is that Democrats are too loyal to select the best. Hillary was a good candidate, but she had too much baggage. She got the nomination because of loyalty when she served Obama after losing the nomination. Biden got the nomination after he served Obama, and chose not to run against Hillary. Biden probably would've beaten Trump in 2016, since he was very sharp at the time, so his terms should've been in 2016 and 2020. We should've had another democrat at the top of the ticket. If not for the excessive Democratic party's loyalty, perhaps Republicans would have been forced back to sanity to have a chance to win, so perhaps they wouldn't be under Trump's spell, and they would have someone like Romney leading the ticket, and democracy would be safe for another generation.

Hindsight is 20/20. It would have been hard in 2016 to predict everything that has come to pass. I mean, if it wouldn't have been for something like Comey coming out in October of 2016 and announcing the reopening of the investigation into Hillary, she very likely would have one. It's crazy how such a small thing that was ultimately inconsequential likely changed to course of history so dramatically.

You're right that Democrats are sometimes loyal to a fault to politicians who have put in the work and proven to be effective leaders. It does hamper them at times, but it also makes sure people like Trump don't bulldoze their party and America.

 

[Incumbent]

The Democrats are clearly on the hook if Trump wins. They have had ample time to determine if Biden could generate enough enthusiasm to get a strong voter turnout. You know that Trump is going to have his minions voting for him no matter what, however there is still a good chunk of voters who would rather sit home than vote for either of these people. By providing a more compelling candidate the Democrats really could have placed the nail in the MAGA coffin.

I'm not exonerating the party but it's rare to have a strong primary challenger against an incumbent, so how we got here is pretty normal. We've had a president who, by a lot of accounts, has been doing a good job. If the people who are closest to him are ignoring some serious red flags, then that's something I hope powerbrokers can intervene on, but I don't think there have been credible murmurs, even, from people interacting with him regularly, that he's too senile to continue. Also, rapid decline can occur and both candidates are at that age. If that's what is happening, I hope there's another way forward.

You can, of course, place blame wherever you want and we can disagree about that.

There have been numerous opportunities to stop Trump, but his party and his supporters have declined every time.

 

[Eeyore]

Biden is going to prove everybody wrong soon. He'll get on tv with the white house physician and they'll perform "Puttin' on the Ritz" to show how physically fit and mentally sharp he is.

I'd probably vote for a corpse before I vote for Trump. He already had a shot. If he was going to do anything that he said he would do, he would have done it when he was already president.

Same for Biden though. He has had 3.5 years as Prez. Fix Medicare and social security. Why wait?