First presidential debate (1 Viewer)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    Actually he has in multiple videos from multiple public appearances for about a year now. He also completely loses his train of thought and starts rambling about something completely unrelated.

    Trump's repeatedly said he's running against Obama. That he beat Obama. He said Haley was the Speaker of the House on Jan 6th when it was Pelosi.

    He's jumbled words badly. He's had trouble sounding out words. He's mumbled. He's had trouble following what's written on a teleprompter. He couldn't stay a wake during his trial in the early parts of the day.

    And it wasn't long ago he said he was waging a war or a fight "against American democracy."

    All of that has been going on for a year and we've seen a lot of it even though Trump has interacted with a lot less people and spoken in public a lot less often than Biden. Trump is the one being hidden from people.


    And there's at least an equal basis for assuming Trump has a medical condition based on observed behavior. Also if you listen to everything Trump actually says, then there's also a strong basis for assuming he has an antisocial psychological disorder or disorders.

    And Trump only ever spends his time in low pressure, managed environments. His interviews are arranged and softball with friendly interviewers. On the rare occasion when he has to operate outside of those controlled spaces, he’s belligerent and dishonest and as we saw in the debate, that went completely unchecked.

    It’s fair to criticize Biden but people shouldn’t glaringly ignore what is going on with the other candidate. Biden is slowing down but Trump never gives thoughtful insights or delivers substantive messages. He can’t.
     
    And Trump only ever spends his time in low pressure, managed environments. His interviews are arranged and softball with friendly interviewers. On the rare occasion when he has to operate outside of those controlled spaces, he’s belligerent and dishonest and as we saw in the debate, that went completely unchecked.
    I don't think Trump can win the election unless he gets out of that comfort zone and I don't think he can win the election if he does. His rallies don't draw as much of a crowd and there have been several instances of people leaving his rallies very early

    I think the debate is as good as Trump is going to have it from now on. And even that wasn't great for him. In the one poll that asked the same people what they thought about Biden and Trump before and after the debate, Trump actually dropped more than Biden. That's getting lost in the anti-Biden feeding frenzy.

    The fact that Trump was seen less favorably than Biden after Trump's best night and Biden's worse, ticked my optimism up a notch that the American public knows a lot better than some give them credit for knowing.

    It’s fair to criticize Biden but people shouldn’t glaringly ignore what is going on with the other candidate. Biden is slowing down but Trump never gives thoughtful insights or delivers substantive messages. He can’t.
    Yes to all of the above.
     
    You haven't responded to any of my several posts over the last several days, so let's call it even.

    Don't you fret none though, if you post something worth responding to I will.
    Yes we are approaching each other is a similar manner.
    Much of what you have to say is not worth my time.
    Yet I didn't say much....previously Biden friendly NBC News did.
    It is likely you are not responding to NBC News because you don't want to admit that like my ABC News reference a couple of days ago, it is just another example of Biden's downward political spiral.
    ..............and btw I love the democrat's quote about grandpa not wanting to give up the car keys.
     
    I get all of that. I just think that if we continue in this cycle of “every election is the potential end of democracy”, it makes a lot of sense for us as rational humans to investigate how we got to this point with as much humility as possible.

    Because ultimately if we don’t, the same shirteshow will just keep repeating.

    Well, none of this is going away just because Trump loses. Organizations like the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society have been laying the groundwork for decades. Trump is the useful idiot figurehead of something far more entrenched and insidious. The people behind Christofascism saw early on, in Trump, somebody narcissistic and gullible enough to be used for their means. Trump has no guiding principles or evolved belief system; it’s all just self-interest, greed, and celebrity-seeking. He doesn’t actually care about anybody but himself.

    So, yeah, we will likely be voting on our survival every cycle until a time should ever come that the people needed to take all of this down are elected into office in scale-tipping numbers. A democratic president with a dysfunctional congress isn’t ever going to be able to do the real work necessary to dismantle the systemic threats to our nation.
     
    Yes he did. And Clooney said he's known for quite some time that Biden wasn't fit. So, why did Clooney wait until today?

    What changed in the past two weeks that caused Clooney to go from raising millions of dollars for Biden who he "knew was unfit," two very publicly and very humiliatingly throwing Biden under the bus today?

    George implied that he's known Biden was unfit farther back than the debates. So why continue to fund raise for him and then wait two weeks after the piling on that followed the debate to go public with "what I know."

    My guess is George and Amal felt their fund raising would buy them influence they didn't end up getting, so now they are retaliating by trying to push him out of the way to get a candidate they think will give them what they want.
    In your unwavering support of Biden, you fail to see the factual, tangible weakness he showed at the debate. It wasn't his substance or positions, it was the delivery. It was horrific! Let's be totally clear and honest, if Joe Biden would have performed admirably at the debate, really, just held his own, NOBODY would be talking about him stepping down and getting replaced. Nobody. But you simply can not discount what 50 million people witnessed. His abysmal showing at the debate is why the headlines are talking about his cognitive ability instead of focusing on his opponent - a convicted felon!!!

    Clooney has been an ardent supporter of the Democratic Party forever. He's helped raise money for the blue ticket for as long as I can remember. To suggest he has malice towards the Party because he didn't get special treatment from Biden is freakin' comical. Just take a moment and realize many democrats are sincerely worried about the chances at beating the one candidate most of America deplores!

    I'm 10000000000000000000% against Trump. It consumes my mind sometimes. I really think we could go off a cliff as a country if Trump is re-elected. So when I consider a change on the party ticket, it's not to throw salt at Joe Biden. It's to give America the best possible chance at keeping Trump out of the White House.
     
    No, Steve, that's not at all true. I've never hit you up in one thread asking you why I didn't respond to you in another thread.

    That's all you my thirsty little brother.
    OK.
    Don't respond to NBC News.
    Don't respond to the democratic voter who said Biden is like the grandpa who won't give up the car keys even though it is now no longer safe for him to drive.
    Just ignore that and call me thirsty.
    Fine.
    I'm gonna watch the US Open on ESPN.
    See ya.
     
    In your unwavering support of Biden, you fail to see the factual, tangible weakness he showed at the debate. It wasn't his substance or positions, it was the delivery. It was horrific! Let's be totally clear and honest, if Joe Biden would have performed admirably at the debate, really, just held his own, NOBODY would be talking about him stepping down and getting replaced. Nobody. But you simply can not discount what 50 million people witnessed. His abysmal showing at the debate is why the headlines are talking about his cognitive ability instead of focusing on his opponent - a convicted felon!!!

    Clooney has been an ardent supporter of the Democratic Party forever. He's helped raise money for the blue ticket for as long as I can remember. To suggest he has malice towards the Party because he didn't get special treatment from Biden is freakin' comical. Just take a moment and realize many democrats are sincerely worried about the chances at beating the one candidate most of America deplores!

    I'm 10000000000000000000% against Trump. It consumes my mind sometimes. I really think we could go off a cliff as a country if Trump is re-elected. So when I consider a change on the party ticket, it's not to throw salt at Joe Biden. It's to giv

    e America the best possible chance at keeping Trump out of the White House.
    See @LA - L.A.
    Some anti Trump people are realistic.
    ............NOW I'm really gonna watch tennis!
    Bye.
     
    New polling, posting because that seems to be the main objection

     
    Joe Biden should submit to a cognitive test. Make the results public. If he passes, hold a press conference. Explain the results and why he took the test (to appease the detractors). Explain that occasionally he has brief moments where he can't get out what he's thinking, but the thought process and decisions made are unaffected. Get it out that he does have these "moments", but they are not a sign of cognitive impairment. Keep getting out in public and show America he is up to the task. Don't pretend what happened at the debate did not happen. Dude has to engage with America like no other candidate. It's the only way.
     
    In your unwavering support of Biden...
    I'll stop there, because that's not remotely accurate and nothing else you wrote responds to anything I actually said.

    I think you're confusing me not agreeing that getting rid of Biden is a guaranteed, better, and risk free path forward with me having "unwavering support of Biden."

    I think you're confusing me thinking about what people are saying, instead of just accepting it without question with me having "unwavering support" for Biden.

    I've clearly laid out my concerns and thought process. None of it has anything to do with anything close to "unwavering support" for Biden.
     
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    This is what you think is happening?
    If Biden performs well at the debate or holds his own, none of this circus is happening right now. Hell, if Biden would have refused to debate at all......he would have taken heat, but could have survived. It's only my opinion, but I think the debate was very consequential. I think it was a game changer in this race. It went from me feeling pretty good that Biden would beat Trump in November to I don't think Biden can win now (feeling).

    I'm just hoping in the next week or so, some clarity is found. Either we are sticking with Biden and fully supporting him or replacing him and fully supporting that candidate. It's imperative that we get away from wavering. America has 4 months to make sure Trump is defeated.
     
    In your unwavering support of Biden, you fail to see the factual, tangible weakness he showed at the debate. It wasn't his substance or positions, it was the delivery. It was horrific! Let's be totally clear and honest, if Joe Biden would have performed admirably at the debate, really, just held his own, NOBODY would be talking about him stepping down and getting replaced. Nobody. But you simply can not discount what 50 million people witnessed. His abysmal showing at the debate is why the headlines are talking about his cognitive ability instead of focusing on his opponent - a convicted felon!!!

    Most people who saw the debate agree with you. It was a bad performance that hurt Biden and created a lot of doubt in the people determined to stop Trump from winning.

    Here’s the thing, though; that could have been Harris up there shredding Trump and it wouldn’t have driven her polling numbers through the roof. We don’t live in an era of that kind of electoral flexibility. Clinton was an experienced campaigner with a lawyer background, making her a much more skilled debater than Trump and we see how that worked out.

    I think you’re about my age and we can remember some really lopsided presidential elections. Reagan-Mondale was an embarrassing loss for Democrats. But most of our elections have been close as our political divides deepen. McCain didn’t fair well against Obama largely because he was a decent man who didn’t embrace the hatred of the Republican base that had been activated in response to the presence of Obama. McCain suppressed enthusiasm among the people he needed to win.

    Nobody is saving us. There isn’t a charismatic figure waiting on the horizon who is going to unite us across the aisle. We have deeper problems to confront before that can happen. Our presidential elections are going to be dogfights. If it’s not age, it will be socialism fearmongering, misogyny, racism, elitism, or any of the other cards we’re already familiar with that play well to stimulate rage and distrust.

    Clooney has been an ardent supporter of the Democratic Party forever. He's helped raise money for the blue ticket for as long as I can remember. To suggest he has malice towards the Party because he didn't get special treatment from Biden is freakin' comical. Just take a moment and realize many democrats are sincerely worried about the chances at beating the one candidate most of America deplores!

    Clooney has some clout in Democratic circles. I agree with you that his message could prove significant. I’m not convinced it’s wise, but it might end up being impactful.

    I'm 10000000000000000000% against Trump. It consumes my mind sometimes. I really think we could go off a cliff as a country if Trump is re-elected. So when I consider a change on the party ticket, it's not to throw salt at Joe Biden. It's to give America the best possible chance at keeping Trump out of the White House.

    Same. I have my doubts about Biden, too. I have my doubts about alternate scenarios. Fear is feeding doubt. At some point, though, if enough Americans want to keep Trump from office, we’re going to have to embrace the far-from-ideal, whatever form that takes, work our ***** off, and keep our eyes on the big picture.
     
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    (to appease the detractors)
    I'm biased by my own experiences, but I don't appease detractors, I tell them to eff off.

    Biden is already climbing in polls again. Let's talk about that instead of appeasing detractors.

    By the way, that's what most of this is all about as far as I'm concerned. It's about some self-entitled people wanting to force Biden to appease them.
     
    I'm just hoping in the next week or so, some clarity is found. Either we are sticking with Biden and fully supporting him or replacing him and fully supporting that candidate. It's imperative that we get away from wavering. America has 4 months to make sure Trump is defeated.
    I'm in complete agreement on that and I think it's to most important thing for us all to agree with and to do.
     
    Newsweek is citing a USA Today poll that shows an increase in Democrats supporting Biden, post debate. His numbers with overall 2020 voters who supported him are a concern at 78%, but there’s not been a dramatic departure from Biden… yet, anyway.

    I’m not overvaluing this information, but if the campaign is seeing similar data in internal polling, it would explain the resistance.

    This is positive news. It gives me hope that we'll beat Trump, but I believe this swing is more anti-Trump, than pro-Biden. Also, it's not democrats that I worry about. I worry about independents. The scrutiny of Biden's health and "condition" can swing this back towards Trump. I expect more instances of incoherence to hurt Biden. Also, I would have to see many more polls, especially of independents in swing states, to be re-assured that Biden is closing and heading towards a win. I would much rather Harris and an elected VP, because I think that ticket is more likely to win.
     

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