First presidential debate (2 Viewers)

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    Optimus Prime

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    Since we usually have a separate thread for these
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    NEW YORK (AP) — President Joe Biden begins an intense period of private preparations Friday at Camp David for what may be the most consequential presidential debate in decades.

    The 81-year-old Democrat’s team is aware that he cannot afford an underwhelming performance when he faces Republican rival Donald Trump for 90 minutes on live television Thursday night. Biden’s team is expecting aggressive attacks on his physical and mental strength, his record on the economy and immigration and even his family.

    Trump, 78 and ever confident, will stay on the campaign trail before going to his Florida estate next week for two days of private meetings as part of an informal prep process.

    The former president’s allies are pushing him to stay focused on his governing plans, but they’re expecting him to be tested by pointed questions about his unrelenting focus on election fraud, his role in the erosion of abortion rights and his unprecedented legal baggage.

    Thursday’s debate on CNN will be full of firsts, with the potential to reshape the presidential race. Never before in the modern era have two presumptive nominees met on the debate stage so early in the general election season. Never before have two White House contenders faced off at such advanced ages, with widespread questions about their readiness.

    And never before has a general election debate participant been saddled with a felony conviction. The debate-stage meeting comes just two weeks before Trump is scheduled to be sentenced on 34 felony counts in his New York hush money trial.

    “You can argue this will be the most important debate, at least in my lifetime,” said Democratic strategist Jim Messina, 54, who managed former President Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign.

    PRESSURE ON BIDEN


    The ground rules for Thursday’s debate, the first of two scheduled meetings, are unusual.

    The candidates agreed to meet at a CNN studio in Atlanta with no audience. Each candidate’s microphone will be muted, except when it’s his turn to speak. No props or prewritten notes will be allowed onstage. The candidates will be given only a pen, a pad of paper and a bottle of water.

    There will be no opening statements. A coin flip determined that Biden would stand at the podium to the viewer’s right, while Trump would deliver the final closing statement.


    The next debate won’t be until September. Any stumbles Thursday will be hard to erase or replace quickly.………..

     
    Yeah, but you cannot just throw out the results of valid elections. They happened. The perception among black voters who voice their opinions on Twitter seems to be that their votes are being discarded by rich white men who are trying to force Biden out.
    I get that, but I respectfully disagree that what’s happening is what you state above. What we can all agree on is that Trump needs to lose, right? No one (except maybe Sam Andreas) believes Biden came close to doing damage to Trump during the debate, and in fact damaged himself. My assessment is that Biden is currently incapable of making a case for himself or against Trump in a debate or interview setting. If we lose to Trump, I at least want someone who is capable of making an argument.
     
    This is what is so confounding. As much as people say Biden was hiding that is just bull. He had an active schedule as POTUS. He did fundraising, he visited swing states, he attended world events, he gave local interviews, he talked to the press sometimes on his way to the helicopter. He hosted events at the WH. He did another event last night at 8:30, I just read. I don’t know what gives.
    Did he do any adversarial events? His lack of press conferences has been one of the problems. Usually he would only take 1 or 2 questions. That didn’t expose his condition.
     
    This guy lays it out pretty sensibly.




    I would at least like to see a mini-primary for the VP to set us up to win in the future. Harris should choose from the top couple of vote getters.
     
    Least amount of interviews, doesn't start the day till 11am, takes an afternoon nap. This doesn't paint the picture of what MT15 called a full schedule.

    We can agree to disagree. I would stop short of claiming I'm arguing in bad faith though.

    Biden regularly starts the day at 11:00?
     
    What I am trying to say is that all these crazy ideas being floated by pundits, and donors publicly are actually damaging the democratic cause in this election.

    What do you mean 'crazy ideas'? Depending on your examples, they may not be so crazy to someone else. Would you provide a few, please?

    Not to mention it is probably only making Biden more stubborn about dropping out, I have a feeling. If donors and politicians have concerns they need to voice them in private to Biden himself, or the cabinet who can actually do something about it. But all these ideas - some sort of reality TV event hosted by Bill Clinton and Obama, or else hosted by Oprah and Taylor Swift, or simply pretending the primaries didn’t happen and starting over - make the Democratic Party look like a clown show.

    So you think that the best way to encourage Biden to drop out if he indeed is not the best candidate to beat Trump in 2024 is for other politicians to not let it slip that they have doubts about his abilities? Do you not think that the debate and some of Biden's public appearances did damage enough?

    The primaries were indeed cancelled in 2 states, which I think personally is highly undemocratic and a troubling trend.

    We don’t have a mechanism to replace him, really, even if he steps aside. We would be throwing out every primary result. These were valid primaries no different than any other times an incumbent president runs for office. But the idea that some people (pundits, pollsters, an actor) can force Biden off the ticket is literally insane. It goes against everything that democracy stands for.

    He'd probably have to voluntarily step aside, sure. Minus pledged delegates reneging them. Which I wouldn't put it past the DNC to have happen.

    And the response that there wasn’t really a primary is just signaling a willingness to throw out elections when you don’t like the result

    Is this not what happened in Florida and Delaware?

    I'm highly skeptical that Biden will actually beat Trump this year and suspect that another young candidate would fare far better, but I'm not sitting here telling people to dump Biden.

    Biden is currently doing the job, he is not senile, no matter how much some people want him to be so they can just get rid of him. People are actually saying they would use polling as an excuse to force a legitimate candidate who has locked up the nomination in the normal manner off the ticket? And then calling people who disagree, or at least want to pump the brakes cultists is just too much.

    I haven't said he's senile. He's undoubtedly undergoing some sort of cognitive issue, however. To see his speeches and not admit that, even if you (general you) don't know what exactly is affecting him, is to be looking the other way - so to speak. Even over the last 3-4 years, it's been a surprising change.

    I'll repeat: I'm not saying Biden needs to step down - but I do think he could and it would potentially be a better solution in terms of winning the election. Ultimately though, that's speculation. It's just hard to imagine Biden avoiding all debates until the election or actually performing well in one that he does participate in, based on what we've seen thus far.
     
    Biden regularly starts the day at 11:00?

    He did for two weeks during debate prep.

    They openly discussed no longer doing evening events because of his sundowning.

    That's not painting the picture of a guy crushed with work.
     
    I get that, but I respectfully disagree that what’s happening is what you state above.

    No, but it’s the perception the party will have to deal with. And the scenarios that follow all look pretty bleak, in their own way, to me. Harris is the only person I can see that powerbrokers would be able to fall behind and guide towards the nomination. Anybody else and it will look like a coup that just ignores the will of voters. A contested convention is more likely to fracture the party than to bring unity, since you’re already going to have a split among people that it should be happening at all.
     
    I would at least like to see a mini-primary for the VP to set us up to win in the future. Harris should choose from the top couple of vote getters.

    Rick Petree is an investment banker apparently. There are plenty of people with deep ties in the party that think a mini-primary is possible.

    MT15, can we get Ja-Rule's opinion of if a mini-primary is possible?

     
    He did for two weeks during debate prep.

    They openly discussed no longer doing evening events because of his sundowning.

    That's not painting the picture of a guy crushed with work.

    Who used the term sundowning? There are, as far as I know, zero credible reports of a diagnosed cognitive condition.
     
    I would at least like to see a mini-primary for the VP to set us up to win in the future. Harris should choose from the top couple of vote getters.

    I don’t know how this would be possible. How would votes be taken and counted in a process that could remotely be considered credible? The Democratic Party can’t just call on states to hold new elections, and there isn’t time for that anyway, so I’m curious to know more about what you’re thinking.
     
    I frequently don’t get what I want in elections, whether it’s the candidates or the outcomes. You’d be preaching to the choir.

    Not sure what you're getting at here. What about what I said mentioned frustration with not getting what I want?

    If anything, I've alluded to the fact that there's a growing dissatisfaction with the Democratic party itself amongst registered voters.
     
    No, but it’s the perception the party will have to deal with. And the scenarios that follow all look pretty bleak, in their own way, to me. Harris is the only person I can see that powerbrokers would be able to fall behind and guide towards the nomination. Anybody else and it will look like a coup that just ignores the will of voters. A contested convention is more likely to fracture the party than to bring unity, since you’re already going to have a split among people that it should be happening at all.
    With reproductive rights being such a salient issue, having Harris be the nominee - perhaps as President - wouldn’t be the worst strategy. Maybe she gets defeated by racism/misogyny, but I feel better about trying that over the current status quo.
     
    I'll repeat: I'm not saying Biden needs to step down - but I do think he could and it would potentially be a better solution in terms of winning the election. Ultimately though, that's speculation. It's just hard to imagine Biden avoiding all debates until the election or actually performing well in one that he does participate in, based on what we've seen thus far.

    With this many defections, if I'm Biden, and I'm certain I'm fine. I would disclose the results of the 4 hour cognitive test, and a MRI.
     
    He said on the call with the governors he was longer doing events after 8pm.

    And so you think that confirms a diagnosis of some form of dementia? There’s nothing official supporting that and while it’s clear he’s showing some signs of his age, that doesn’t mean he has dementia. Criticism is justified but causally fitting in claims as if they are facts seems pretty, uh, cultish? Blue MAGA? Maybe we’re better off sticking to what we know and being clear when we’re expressing matters of opinion or interpretation.
     

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