Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets (UPDATE: Trump admin. deploying federal LE to cities) (1 Viewer)

[Dragon]

“All United States Marshals Service arrestees have public records of arrest documenting their charges. Our agency did not arrest or detain Mark James Pettibone.”

OPB sent DHS an extensive list of questions about Pettibone’s arrest including: What is the legal justification for making arrests away from federal property? What is the legal justification for searching people who are not participating in criminal activity? Why are federal officers using civilian vehicles and taking people away in them? Are the arrests federal officers make legal under the constitution? If so, how?

After 7 p.m. Thursday, a DHS spokesperson responded, on background, that they could confirm Wolf was in Portland during the day. The spokesperson didn’t acknowledge the remaining questions.

Federal Law Enforcement Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab Protesters Off Portland Streets

Federal law enforcement officers have been using unmarked vehicles to drive around downtown Portland and detain protesters since at least July 14.

www.opb.org

This story is very troublesome.

 

[CoolBrees]

AP article on the hazards and lack of information on what they are gassing Americans with.

The fact that there is no oversight for the manufacturing of a chemical agent is worrisome to say the least.

Lack of study and oversight raises concerns about tear gas

SALEM, Ore. (AP) — On June 2, Justin LaFrancois attended a protest against police violence and racism in downtown Charlotte, North Carolina, where he planned to livestream the event for his alternative newspaper’s website.

apnews.com

 

[Farb]

Allow me to ask this question as a follow up. Would you say that the pro-life movement is about the right to life and is it a grassroots and peaceful movement? I'm not equating one with the other, I'm just gauging how you see it especially since you seem to be a republican.

I see where you are going with this and its a good question.
I do tend to vote republican but I wouldn't consider myself a republican, but that is neither here nor there.
I also would not say there is any correlation between BLM and PP/Right to Life groups.
I am also not a pro-life at all costs person either. I think abortions are sometime necessary but an abortion preformed out of inconvenience is where I draw the line. There are other options available in this great country. Its not like we don't know how pregnancy happens. I am also not a fan of my tax dollars going so someone can get an abortion.

I also know there have been crazy pro-life people that have bombed clinics and killed doctors but I think those would be fringe crazies that each group seems to get these days.

Planned Parenthood is also an organization that deserves a lot of inspection.

Do we have an abortion thread?

 

[Saintamaniac]

I see where you are going with this and its a good question.
I do tend to vote republican but I wouldn't consider myself a republican, but that is neither here nor there.
I also would not say there is any correlation between BLM and PP/Right to Life groups.
I am also not a pro-life at all costs person either. I think abortions are sometime necessary but an abortion preformed out of inconvenience is where I draw the line. There are other options available in this great country. Its not like we don't know how pregnancy happens. I am also not a fan of my tax dollars going so someone can get an abortion.

I also know there have been crazy pro-life people that have bombed clinics and killed doctors but I think those would be fringe crazies that each group seems to get these days.

Planned Parenthood is also an organization that deserves a lot of inspection.

Do we have an abortion thread?

I appreciate the response and I wasn't really interested in debating the merits of the pro life protest / movement. What I wanted to point out was this: If you say that BLM is not about racial injustice then you have to say that pro life is not about protecting life. If you say that BLM was not grass roots, then you have to also conclude that pro life was never grass roots. If you say that BLM is not a peaceful movement, then you have to conclude that pro life is not peaceful....and in actuality it is an oxymoron. I was just hoping that you didn't think pro life was actually pro life while at the same time thinking BLM is not about racial injustice.

As you stated, there are crazy people that claim to be pro life while at the same time taking innocent lives. However, there are no members of BLM that have taken people's lives in the name of the BLM movement. There are, however, some people who have used the BLM protest to loot, steal and cause problems. The majority of the people in the BLM want change through peaceful protest but you have claimed that those folks desire to have black lives treated in the same manner as other lives to be a lie. And you've made that claim on the basis of the people who couldn't care less about making positive changes and are opportunist. You've castigated all blacks, browns and whites who have joined the movement with sincerity based on those opportunist. So now I ask you, should I consider you a racist because some white people are racist? No I shouldn't and I never would. But when you make the type of statements that you made about the BLM, understand exactly what it is that you are doing.

 

[Farb]

In my opinion BLM was a marketing genius in its design and execution at the beginning (several years ago) up until other groups got under the umbrella and now the BLM actuals can't remove the cancerous groups without causing a war with in their movement. The name of the group itself is designed to automatically gain support from all normal people around the world. Does a black person's life matter? Just about every American will agree with that, but if you turn those words into the name of movement, you again automatically get 75% behind you, by semantic overload but they are they are still behind the movement.
Once BLM failed to police their own movement they lost a lot of support. I am also not just talking white people. I am talking all Americans. Several black people I know feel the exact same way.
The mayor of Portland feels the same way (same story and quotes just one is not FOX):
https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-mayor-condemns-rioters-for-attempting-to-commit-murder

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...demns-rioters-for-attempting-to-commit-murder

“When you commit arson with an accelerant in an attempt to burn down a building that is occupied by people who you have intentionally trapped inside, you are not demonstrating, you are attempting to commit murder," Wheeler said in a news conference with Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell.

"Don’t think for a moment that you are if you are participating in this activity, you are not being a prop for the reelection campaign of Donald Trump — because you absolutely are," he said. "You are creating the B-roll film that will be used in ads nationally to help Donald Trump during this campaign. If you don’t want to be part of that, then don’t show up.”

A riot was declared Wednesday evening when agitators descended upon the Portland Police Bureau’s East Precinct building, spray-painted over security cameras, broke a glass door with a 2x4, lit a fire using an accelerant and threw fireworks and other objects at officers, according to FOX 12 in Portland.

Police said that a truck also attempted to run over officers."

I understand that people want change with regards to race and LE and society in general. That is a very deep and lengthy dialogue and BLM had just about everyone on board until groups that don't want a discussion sneaked in and started looting and burning private property. If BLM can't police their own movement, why should we take advise from them about policing our communities?

 

[Ayo]

Police can’t police their own police.

so, using the same logic, the question also becomes why should we take their advice?

That’s the reason much of this is necessary. That’s why the fight must be externalized.

 

[zztop]

who watches the watchmen

Police can’t police their own police.

so, using the same logic, the question also becomes why should we take their advice?

That’s the reason much of this is necessary. That’s why the fight must be externalized.

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" in Latin, which literally translates to "Who will guard the guards themselves," the modern version of which has become "Who watches the watchmen?" The phrase is a general embodiment of the idea that it can be hard to hold those in power accountable

slightly off topic, but The Watchmen is a pretty good show

 

[Farb]

Police can’t police their own police.

so, using the same logic, the question also becomes why should we take their advice?

That’s the reason much of this is necessary. That’s why the fight must be externalized.

That is up for discussion as well. The actual not perceived level of police brutality. That is a discussion that will have to happen within the police community and the black community individually.
BLM can externalize the fight all they want, but the level of support they will receive from the American people will continue to shrink until they realize that people don't want they communities to be burned down and looted for a movement that can't even articulate what the end goal is.

 

[Richard]

Police can’t police their own police.

so, using the same logic, the question also becomes why should we take their advice?

That’s the reason much of this is necessary. That’s why the fight must be externalized.

I have no problem with the fact that outrage over police violence should be manifested in protests. Non-violent protest can be very effective and produce actual results. However, too many make the claim of justification of the violence, simply because their cause is just. In my view, that is not only misguided, it automatically make enemies of those who would be friends. There is a large segment of our population who agree with the cause of the protests, but will not support a protest that includes acts of violence, property destruction, etc. It is just my opinion, but I believe the most effective course in Portland would have been to distance the main protest from those seeking anarchy. Simply changing the venue of the protests would have kept the protest alive, while isolating those who care more about disruption than they do the protest.

Additionally, I fail to see the value in over 60 days of protests if the demands of the protesters are either unclear, unreasonable or outside the ability of authorities to provide. At some point, the Portland protest has seemed to have become a vanity project for its leaders rather than an attempt to gain support for actual change that can matter.

 

[Ayo]

I have no problem with the fact that outrage over police violence should be manifested in protests. Non-violent protest can be very effective and produce actual results. However, too many make the claim of justification of the violence, simply because their cause is just. In my view, that is not only misguided, it automatically make enemies of those who would be friends. There is a large segment of our population who agree with the cause of the protests, but will not support a protest that includes acts of violence, property destruction, etc. It is just my opinion, but I believe the most effective course in Portland would have been to distance the main protest from those seeking anarchy. Simply changing the venue of the protests would have kept the protest alive, while isolating those who care more about disruption than they do the protest.

Additionally, I fail to see the value in over 60 days of protests if the demands of the protesters are either unclear, unreasonable or outside the ability of authorities to provide. At some point, the Portland protest has seemed to have become a vanity project for its leaders rather than an attempt to gain support for actual change that can matter.

I don't really have an issue with any of that.

It wasn't really my point.

I'm just saying that if we take the logic - which I am fine with - and apply it to the police, then we start to understand the complexity of the problem and the need for outside entities to play a role. It was not intended to be an endorsement of everything the way it's playing out now.

 

[SaintForLife]

Apparently the federal troops leaving didn't stop the rioting. The peaceful protesters need to move to a different part of the city otherwise they will be associated with the riots.

 

[The moose]

Apparently the federal troops leaving didn't stop the rioting. The peaceful protesters need to move to a different part of the city otherwise they will be associated with the riots.

Yep man read the article.


What did is say was set on fire?

A dumpster for the building not the building.

This is not good but over selling the story is what is happening here.

 

[CoolBrees]

There have been people not associated with BLM who have been kicking up dust at local police precincts. This one was miles away from downtown and the federal building, I don’t know who it Is but I have a guess.

 

[SaintForLife]

Yep man read the article.


What did is say was set on fire?

A dumpster for the building not the building.

This is not good but over selling the story is what is happening here.

It doesn't seem like that's an isolated incident. This article talks about nightly violence.

Neighbors of East Precinct tire of violence and tear gas

Residents near the Portland Police Bureau’s East Precinct said Friday the nightly violence associated with protests is negatively impacting them. During the day, the neighborhood is mostly quiet; in fact, that’s the reason many people choose to live there. For some, it’s because the precinct is...

katu.com

 

[wardorican]

Yep man read the article.


What did is say was set on fire?

A dumpster for the building not the building.

This is not good but over selling the story is what is happening here.

Probably should take that up with CBS news for the tweet and headline then. But yeah, it's always a good idea to actually read articles.

 

[MT15]

The nightly violence suggests to me that it is more likely the work of boogaloo boys or some other such group than Antifa, which is really not such an organized group.

Boogaloos, however, are deeply anti-police and federal government, and their express purpose for being is to incite a new civil war.

The man dressed all in black, with the black umbrella, who set off the original rioting in Minneapolis by spray painting an incitement to loot and breaking all the windows of an Autozone, has been identified as a white nationalist, I read.

I say all this to point out that there are a lot of actors in this situation, and people who blame everything bad that happens on BLM or Antifa are just falling for the agenda of the Trump administration. Who is desperate to blame everything on BLM and Antifa. For their own selfish political reasons.

This is not to say that Antifa is never responsible for graffiti and/or petty misdemeanor property crimes, because they are. They are not as violent as these other groups, however. I believe every officer attack, or assassination, has been traced to one of these more violent groups and never to antifa.

 

[Farb]

The nightly violence suggests to me that it is more likely the work of boogaloo boys or some other such group than Antifa, which is really not such an organized group.

Boogaloos, however, are deeply anti-police and federal government, and their express purpose for being is to incite a new civil war.

The man dressed all in black, with the black umbrella, who set off the original rioting in Minneapolis by spray painting an incitement to loot and breaking all the windows of an Autozone, has been identified as a white nationalist, I read.

I say all this to point out that there are a lot of actors in this situation, and people who blame everything bad that happens on BLM or Antifa are just falling for the agenda of the Trump administration. Who is desperate to blame everything on BLM and Antifa. For their own selfish political reasons.

This is not to say that Antifa is never responsible for graffiti and/or petty misdemeanor property crimes, because they are. They are not as violent as these other groups, however. I believe every officer attack, or assassination, has been traced to one of these more violent groups and never to antifa.

I want to make sure I have this clear here. You are saying that Antifa is not violent (generally) and most of the violence seen throughout the country or we can just focus on Portland, has been casused by other groups other than Antifa? And that Antifa is also not organized enough for these viloent clashes?
Is that what you are saying?

 

[Farb]

Probably should take that up with CBS news for the tweet and headline then. But yeah, it's always a good idea to actually read articles.

Does it count that the Mayor who recently groveled before the mob in his city just a few months agao also says the exact same thing and also asked for those 'protesters' to stop trying to burn shirt down?
The fact that people are still trying to pretend that everything is peaceful and happy is lunatic.

 

[Saintamaniac]

The fact that people are still trying to pretend that everything is peaceful and happy is lunatic.

The same could be said for the people pretending that there is a element of the government whose sole purpose is to get trump.